Following on from the first impressions video, I’ve now made one one month in when we’ve had a chance to get to grips with it a bit more (the first film was made on the day we picked it up)

 

if you’re a Zoe fanboi you might not like some of the comments - I’ve had some flack on an EV site already - but stick with it and you’ll see what I really think..

 

Includes a rant about public charging, me getting egg on my face when I film a super smooth charge making my previous comments seem crass, 0-60 dash, and general driving impressions.

 

 

I can't believe the CCS is an optional extra on Zoe, without rapid charging, EV's are simply an expensive toy.

 

I've bought a second hand Leaf for my wife, was deciding between Leaf 24 or ZE20. Although it's a local runabout, rapid charging is still very very important.

Case in point #1: We move to my parents 150 miles away when I can WFH for childcare reasons. Wife wanted her car, so we drove it over in 2 cars. Would have been a very long journey with a 22kW charging Zoe. Driving Leaf with only 20 kWh battery, the journey was only longer by 1 hour, stopped twice.
Case in point #2: Car was 55% last weekend, I drove it hard (I like the instant torque feel) and had 26% when we got back. Afternoon we spontaneously decided to drive 25 miles round trip, a risky trip without charging. But 5min at a rapid charger and the trip was easily done.

 

 

With almost 3 years of EV ownership, I have got the same conclusion as you: public charging infrastructure is very bad. Not only stupid membership requirements. Single rapids dotted about the place does not inspire enough confidence to rely a journey on it. 

 

For my 60 miles car, the ONLY journey I'd confidently do outside of its range from my home in North London is to Milton Keynes thanks to the 8-bay rapid charing hub. 

 

I feel there's only one brand of EV that can replace an ICE car for long distance driving. All others are just local runabout, excellent locally but ultimately you are tethered to your home charger. 

In the case of Councils / Local Authority departments, fleet users they are just expensive work vehicles that are cheap to lease and run and do not need Rapid Charging to just be used locally and not do many miles and mostly sit doing not much.

 

https://www.angus.gov.uk/news/angus_leading_the_charge_with_electric_vehicles

 

 

Edited 30 July, 20205 yr by Roottoot

@wyx087 I think the rapid charger should be standard fit too... 

 

We got the car on PCP (as we normally do) and although the CCS was a £700 option, based on the same deposit and repayment period, the monthly payment was absolutely identical. It did make ticking that box a bit easier! This is because Renault give a higher residual value to the CCS version so they see to think that the absence of CCS will be an issue on the used car market to come - despite the 22AC ability of the Zoe.

 

I do think the charging network is improving in number of post terms and hope it will continue to so for the foreseeable!

 

@Roottoot you’re not kidding about running costs - I mentioned one example in the video but today we had a 140 mile motorway round trip in the car, driving between 60 and 75 (mainly 65). Swmbo got 5.2 MPkWh so in 140 miles we used 26 kW of electric, which we pay 14.7p per kW for at present. So the cost was £3.95 .....in fact it was less as some of the charge was in the car from free vend the other day..

 

octopus off peak is 5p per kW so it could have been as cheap as £1.34!
 

can’t wait for the Enyaq 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

18 hours ago, FatWolfie said:

We got the car on PCP (as we normally do) and although the CCS was a £700 option, based on the same deposit and repayment period, the monthly payment was absolutely identical.

That's great to hear. Hopefully vast majority of ZE50's will have CCS installed. As second hand car buyer, this is excellent news. 

 

Rapid charging is like a bottle of water, vast majority of the time when you going about your business normally, it's just nice to have as backup. But when you go beyond your normal daily routine, it's invaluable (both car capability and reliable network of multi-charger hubs) 

On 30/07/2020 at 15:26, FatWolfie said:

@wyx087 I think the rapid charger should be standard fit too... 

 

We got the car on PCP (as we normally do) and although the CCS was a £700 option, based on the same deposit and repayment period, the monthly payment was absolutely identical. It did make ticking that box a bit easier! This is because Renault give a higher residual value to the CCS version so they see to think that the absence of CCS will be an issue on the used car market to come - despite the 22AC ability of the Zoe.

 

I do think the charging network is improving in number of post terms and hope it will continue to so for the foreseeable!

 

@Roottoot you’re not kidding about running costs - I mentioned one example in the video but today we had a 140 mile motorway round trip in the car, driving between 60 and 75 (mainly 65). Swmbo got 5.2 MPkWh so in 140 miles we used 26 kW of electric, which we pay 14.7p per kW for at present. So the cost was £3.95 .....in fact it was less as some of the charge was in the car from free vend the other day..

 

octopus off peak is 5p per kW so it could have been as cheap as £1.34!
 

can’t wait for the Enyaq 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

 

I am already with Octypus for lecky so that should work out nicely.  Going to see what deals Renault have next month when I should have both an old Scenic and a Mk 4 Clio to trade in.

 

5.2 Miles per kWh is awesome, range would be well over 250 miles by those figures !

 

Still torn on which model to go for, could even be the Play with steel wheels as I have lots of Dacia and Renault wheels in the 185/15 size  or could be a R135 if the PCP is a better deal   overall.  Thanks for sharing your experience. 

 

Had the Zoe a month.

 

Did my first public charge at a Cafe in Gloucestershire, an 11 Kw charger, could not have been easier.

 

Should have got the false boot floor added in to the buy I think.

£175 is got to bad a shell out I suppose.

Even though the Riviera is supposedly the top model available ie parking assistance as well as emergency braking and lane assistance etc, not including the false boot floor and the front arm rest is a bit tight.  I suppose they have to be choosy to stay under the £35k rrp to get the £2.5k government grant.  I will have to justify that it is part of the £2.5k going to pay for these nice extras. 

 

As I said in the Zoe initial impression I am managing to get 4.9 miles per KWh.  A bit more tyres pressure in the back tyres should do it.  I think going much beyond 40 PSI is not good for emergency braking or ride quality even if it is good for fuel consumption.

 

Suspension on the Tesla must be good to run 45 psi pressure and still give a good ride for a £50k to £150k car, if it is that good, and its braking performance too.

 

Very happy.  Not too tempted to join the Zoe owners club, or Renault Zero emissions Owners Club , his videos are OK and add to the sum total knowledge but £20 for a cable boot hook is not great and his "style" seems to grate with me.   https://www.rzoc.club/

The new EV Megane looks interesting.  With the Renault 4 and 5 coming along maybe the Zoe is in its last year or so.

   

 

First long trip.

 

Worcester to Heathrow, about 120 miles if one uses the M5/40/25 route.

Started with 245 miles range shown and arrived with 140 miles being shown.  Consumption shown as 5.1 miles/kWh.  A cruise with the trucks at 55 mph helped achieve this.

Ten Rolec 16A chargers at my Heathrow office.  Plugged in to one not realising most were single phase and only a couple were 3 phase.

These chargers were fitted before we moved in in January 2017 and not used very much by either staff or visitors I was told.

 

Monitored the charging on my smartphone MyRenault App and could see it was slowish and therefore I must have plugged in to a 16A single phase rather than a 16A 3 phase 11 kW charger, ahh well.  Charged back to 90% so it showed 220 miles range.

 

Went to remove my meaty Type 2 to Type 2 and the Rolec would not let it go. wiggled the post end of the cable after disconnecting from Zoe but no joy and getting the cable to release.  Pulled harder and harder until, oops, the entire facia of the Rolec charger post pulled away too.

 

 Went back in to the office, said what happened. Fortunately we had two electricians on site doing a bunch of lecky stuff. Also they had just done a course on EV charging systems.

After 15 minutes of dis-assembling managed to free the cable release pin which had got stuck through probably not have moved in 5 years and would not retract.

 

Should this mechanical part of the charging station be routinely lubricated, annually, every other year I wonder ?

A glance at the internet and this sounds quite a regular problem with charging boxes.  

Do not want to loose a £200 cable to one of these chargers.   Thoughts/ideas ?

 

15 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Thoughts/ideas ?

Use the Furbie; life is too short to spend an extra hour doing a trip like that at truck speed.

With the unceasing demise of so many energy suppliers can EV owners be confident of getting super cheap off peak deals even next month let alone in the future?

 

To get this 5p off peak rate is the peak rate significantly higher than the normal standard tariff? This is a con trick that EDF have slowly been tweaking over the years in France.

 

At some stage electricity for EV owners will have to be as highly taxed as other road fuels, each person that switches is a loss to the treasury, aside from the public charging network how are they going to tax you for recharging at home? I sincerely hope that they don't just put the tax on all electricity for heating and lighting, manufacturing etc.

6 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Use the Furbie; life is too short to spend an extra hour doing a trip like that at truck speed.

 

Well it was just a test and without absolutely knowing I could drive 120 miles and still have more than half my charge left say at least 130 or 140 miles left was the tactic.

So I achieved the phenomenal over 5 miles per kWh and had 140 miles still left on the range meter when I arrived at Heathrow.

As I said the charging was traumatic not due to the charging but the cable removal but more valuable lessons learned on EV charge post functioning.  I will get my office to service all the charge posts so it does not happen again.

 

The return journey Heathrow to Worcester, probably 115 miles was done at higher speeds closer to the National Speed Limit.  Use power at 4.8 KWh and got home with 100 miles of range showing.  Plugged in to my 3.6 kWh charger, added 60 miles over night, Smart meter shows I have used about 15kWh since midnight so that is 75 pence of electricity so I am currently paying 1.25 pence per mile for energy to power the car.

 

Overall success.  Further tests will be for the colder weather but Zoe heating unit seemed fine coping with outside temperature of 7C in the morning and it only consumed 0.4 kWh of power there and back to Heathrow.

 

So cruising in the low 60s mph with the ECO button pressed, occasional kickdown on the accelerator to unleash the 135 hp of instant power to find a quite cruising spot away from the intimidating crowds of trucks seems to work well in terms of  economy, fun and safely.

 

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

With the unceasing demise of so many energy suppliers can EV owners be confident of getting super cheap off peak deals even next month let alone in the future?

To get this 5p off peak rate is the peak rate significantly higher than the normal standard tariff? This is a con trick that EDF have slowly been tweaking over the years in France.At some stage electricity for EV owners will have to be as highly taxed as other road fuels, each person that switches is a loss to the treasury, aside from the public charging network how are they going to tax you for recharging at home? I sincerely hope that they don't just put the tax on all electricity for heating and lighting, manufacturing etc.

 

Well the electricity surplus during the midnight to 5am slot is clearly present today, so many nuclear power stations wanting to have its uptime as close to 100% as possible to pay back the huge capital cost, France more than an other European country has a massive nuclear base load it tried to sell all over Western Europe via the inter-connector.   France is trying to blackmail the UK over the 3 GW France-UK interconnector supply over the Channel Island Fishing and handling the Channel migration issues but that is more difficult now the UK has just plugged in a 1.4 GW interconnector with Norwegian hydro.

 

We will just have to see on electricity pricing.  UK gov could up the VAT on electricity from its current 5% level but that would hurt everyone.  UK gov could also start charging road tax, I would happily pay similar to the Fabia and Clio ie £35 a year, fair is fair.

 

The Instavolt network of rapid DC chargers charge 40p a kWh so there is 2p of kWh of tax on that.  Charging VAT at 20% on charger stations would be another tax raising power.

 

There are ways but tax on charging at home is difficult when many of us EV owners can charge via a 3 pin plug.  Electricity should get cheaper with more offshore wind and better more efficient, cheaper solar also being supplied.  My next step will probably be home solar and my own separate battery storage.

 

@lol-lolThat is very very good use of your battery to get range.  

Getting on for twice as good miles per kWh than i can achieve.   Even when i have gone into full hypermile mode drafting a suitable HGV at a safe distance i can not do as well as you.  That is in any EV i have driven including Zoe's. 

 

 

Next week i have a wedding and some other stuff to attend over 3 days in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.

About 800-900 miles driving to do over 4 days with passengers and with no handy or reliable public charging so will be driving my Suzuki and getting about 40 mpg. 

Just not worth the hassle to be saving any money if i was driving an EV. Unlikely to save anything in the way of money.

Risking getting parking tickers likely these days when parked at chargers that then do not give a charge. There are places now that you pay the Parking Charge to get to chargers and this os not always made obvious and those used to free parking in their home areas are being caught out. (eg Perth)

 

I could do the charging at Ionity or BP Pulse on the M8 & if the speed was as it should not waste time  or at InstaVolt chargers (Handy once open at McD Newbridge near Edinburgh Airport) which you get what you pay for as far as speed goes so worth while, but then that would cost as much as buying Petrol. 

 

BP Pulse.

 

Edited 15 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

9 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Do not want to loose a £200 cable to one of these chargers.   Thoughts/ideas ?

Cut away the cable locking mechanism if you are not worried about people unplugging you: 

https://www.speakev.com/threads/anti-locking-a-type-2-cable.142659/#post-2690415 

 

8 hours ago, J.R. said:

With the unceasing demise of so many energy suppliers can EV owners be confident of getting super cheap off peak deals even next month let alone in the future?

 

To get this 5p off peak rate is the peak rate significantly higher than the normal standard tariff? This is a con trick that EDF have slowly been tweaking over the years in France.

 

At some stage electricity for EV owners will have to be as highly taxed as other road fuels, each person that switches is a loss to the treasury, aside from the public charging network how are they going to tax you for recharging at home? I sincerely hope that they don't just put the tax on all electricity for heating and lighting, manufacturing etc.

Looking at grid, there is ALWAYS surplus electricity overnight: https://grid.iamkate.com/ So the answer is yes, there will always be cheaper off-peak deals. 

I'm at price cap on E7 with 13p off peak and 20p other times. Regional average price is ~19p. 

 

How could they implement taxation of home charging. Have a think, how do you police that? 

Only way to tax home charging is to tax all home electric usage, which wouldn't happen until home gas heating has become abnormal or more tax is put on gas so that electricity heating becomes price competitive pushing towards zero combustion home heating. 

 

Rapid charging tax is totally feasible, and/or per-mile tax for all cars (meaning home charged EV is still cheaper to run). 

9 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Use the Furbie; life is too short to spend an extra hour doing a trip like that at truck speed.

Knowing I can plug-in at both ends, I'd simply drive like the wind, often faster than my diesel. Because the proportional cost increase for the cheaper EV miles mean absolute cost increase is minuscule. 

 

Even better when workplace charger is free. 

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

The Instavolt network of rapid DC chargers charge 40p a kWh so there is 2p of kWh of tax on that.  Charging VAT at 20% on charger stations would be another tax raising power.

 

VAT on electricity supplied via a paid for public charging point is already charged at 20%. This was clarified by HMRC back in May and it forced Instavolt (among others) to raise it's price to 40p/kWh. 
https://instavolt.co.uk/instavolt-ceo-issues-statement-in-response-to-hmrc-vat-brief-25-may-2021/ 

Despite the whinge by Instavolt CEO in the link above, it is clear that the 5% VAT rate was only ever intended to be for primary customers and 're-sold' electricity for charging cars should have VAT at 20% applied. Some charging networks (e.g. Podpoint and Ionity) were already applying the rules correctly.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

We will just have to see on electricity pricing.  UK gov could up the VAT on electricity from its current 5% level but that would hurt everyone.  UK gov could also start charging road tax

Maybe they could even make you install metered chargers, and charge a fair (to everyone else) rate of fuel duty on charging electric cars?

14 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Maybe they could even make you install metered chargers, and charge a fair (to everyone else) rate of fuel duty on charging electric cars?

The government would have to foot the bill for that, so very unlikely. I see road pricing being the way they get the tax back, this is already being trailed by the Treasury. Rishi Sunak appears to be keen. 2p/mile would see a 12K mile/year driver pay £240 in road use tax. I suspect that the VED rules will also change to include electric cars and I think this will be based on the car's value when new. BIK rules for company drivers will be brought in line with ICE vehicles.

Tax on miles driven and tax on passenger car weight as can be monitored at road sensors now. They know the vehicle by ANPR so know the vehicles VED class and Kerb Weight.  So charge heavier private and business use cars with just a driver onboard more per mile than those with passengers / weight nearer gross max.   Too many big fat SUV type and Sporty SUV,s are wearing out roads and occupying road space that need not be there. That might lead some to add weight into cars, but then Fuel be it fossil or renewable generated would cost more as moving weight does need more energy / fuel.    The Government assisting financially the use of large EV,s for business use of reps / traders that have them just as Lifestyle vehicles is ridiculous.  But then that is as it is now with Doublecab pickups, VW Carvelle type Transporters.  Dual use vehicles.  

Edited 15 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

Maybe they could even make you install metered chargers, and charge a fair (to everyone else) rate of fuel duty on charging electric cars?

What's to stop me using a regular unmetered 3-pin to charge my EV, on my un-lit driveway with black cables, in a quiet closed road? 

 

I have a twin 3-pin socket, with 40A armoured cable installed next to the EV charger near my driveway. Mainly for lawn mower and heating up my fossil car, but it's perfectly situated to easily get around any home charging targeted tax. When parked and plugged in, the setup is not visible from the closed road. 

10 hours ago, J.R. said:

With the unceasing demise of so many energy suppliers can EV owners be confident of getting super cheap off peak deals even next month let alone in the future?

 

To get this 5p off peak rate is the peak rate significantly higher than the normal standard tariff? This is a con trick that EDF have slowly been tweaking over the years in France.

 

At some stage electricity for EV owners will have to be as highly taxed as other road fuels, each person that switches is a loss to the treasury, aside from the public charging network how are they going to tax you for recharging at home? I sincerely hope that they don't just put the tax on all electricity for heating and lighting, manufacturing etc.

 

My Octopus Go rate on my last bill was----- 

 

04:30 to 00:30   14.90p per kWh + VAT = 15.645p  per kWh
00:30 to 04:30     4.76p  per kWh + VAT = 4.998p per kWh 

 

So both blooming cheap it seems to me.  Is it not due to go in October 2021 so maybe my next bill will be a much higher rate. ie  24p.per kWh for the 20 hours but still 5p a kWh for the 4 hours when I program the EV to get its charge from the house.

 

I shall be doing much more of the tumble drying in the cheap period I think.  

My heating is gas and I have a brand new 94% efficient Valient boiler fitted a couple of months ago which with its 40% improvement in efficiency and dropping my boiler cover package with British gas I am saving about £50 a month so the new boiler pays for itself in the 5 years.

 

Electricity De France have some very big out-goings with their mass of nuclear power stations but they are going renewable as well. Just bought two dozen LED spot lights and candle bulbs to save on the lecky and one notice a huge amount of less incidental heat that would have come from the old halogen bulbs so the gas heating will have to work a bit harder but gas is effectively 3p a kWh so many times cheaper than electricity for heating of course.

 

The new taxes on Employee and Employer National Insurance will cripple some people financially as well as no rise in tax allowances so ,many working people will have much less money and in the UK we will in April become more taxed as a percentage of earnings than ever before. 

 

43 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Tax on miles driven and tax on passenger car weight as can be monitored at road sensors now. They know the vehicle by ANPR so know the vehicles VED class and Kerb Weight.  So charge heavier private and business use cars with just a driver onboard more per mile than those with passengers / weight nearer gross max.   Too many big fat SUV type and Sporty SUV,s are wearing out roads and occupying road space that need not be there. That might lead some to add weight into cars, but then Fuel be it fossil or renewable generated would cost more as moving weight does need more energy / fuel.    The Government assisting financially the use of large EV,s for business use of reps / traders that have them just as Lifestyle vehicles is ridiculous.  But then that is as it is now with Doublecab pickups, VW Carvelle type Transporters.  Dual use vehicles.  

 

Might encourage many to drive the shorter routes on the A roads through towns and villages rather than use the longer but slightly quicker motorways.

 

Is this what the Con government want to encourage ie not using the M40 but driving the shorter route though the Cotswold towns and villages to save road pricing mileage  I wonder ?

 

3 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@lol-lolThat is very very good use of your battery to get range.  

Getting on for twice as good miles per kWh than i can achieve.   Even when i have gone into full hypermile mode drafting a suitable HGV at a safe distance i can not do as well as you.  That is in any EV i have driven including Zoe's. 

Next week i have a wedding and some other stuff to attend over 3 days in Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.

About 800-900 miles driving to do over 4 days with passengers and with no handy or reliable public charging so will be driving my Suzuki and getting about 40 mpg. 

Just not worth the hassle to be saving any money if i was driving an EV. Unlikely to save anything in the way of money.

Risking getting parking tickers likely these days when parked at chargers that then do not give a charge. There are places now that you pay the Parking Charge to get to chargers and this os not always made obvious and those used to free parking in their home areas are being caught out. (eg Perth)

I could do the charging at Ionity or BP Pulse on the M8 & if the speed was as it should not waste time  or at InstaVolt chargers (Handy once open at McD Newbridge near Edinburgh Airport) which you get what you pay for as far as speed goes so worth while, but then that would cost as much as buying Petrol. 

BP Pulse.

 

It was an interesting journey yesterday morning to LHR.  For the first 30 miles the power consumption was closer to 4 than 5 miles per kWh.

The journey starts here in Worcester where I am effectively just on the rolling countryside on the edge of the River Severn flood plain and the height above sea level is probably about 100 feet.  Drive up the M5, climb all the way up to the Brum plateau getting up to nearly 700 feet ASL and then it is fairly flat all the way to until one get to the cut through the Chilterns range.   EV just loves that, pick the right squarish transom sterned vehicle 16T truck or whatever to dream one is Ricky Booby in Talledega nights just about to do the draft pass and bingo 5 miles per kWh slowly comes up on the display.

  

Well the Zoe EV goes from strength to strength it seems on the results stated by the onboard computer.  Started the day yesterday with about 240 miles of range but went to the NEC, ie 35 miles away, did my visit, dropped someone back to their house in Redditch and went home so did 70 miles but when I got home I still had over 200 miles of range stated ! 

 

Used the onboard Google over the Airways nav to get back from Redditch and it took me back via a load of 30 to 45 mph lanes which the Zoe seem to love, pulled the power consumption back to the 5 kWh rate.

 

I am just stunned at the, if anything, understated range of the Zoe.  I do really believe it can do 270 miles with a cruise at the infamous 56 mph once used for extra-urban fuel consumption and if one is forced to do only 40-45 mph down the country lanes then close to 300 miles is possible range for the Zoe.   (At least in this circa 15c ambient temp).

   

I will top off on 4.9p Octopus nuclear base load power after midnight, will cost me a princely 75 pence or so, wonder if the range will show 270-ish, that would be stunning, currently 75% charge and 204 miles range displayed.

 

Edited 20 October, 20214 yr by lol-lol

Charged up last night for 4 hours on my wee 3.6 kWh Pod Point charger and that seem to take it to 98 % which I am happy with, lot of articles say do not charge to 100% lots of time as this harms the battery. Of course the EV manufacturers show 100% on their dash but that actually can charge to something like 103% just as they can discharge to -3%, those cunning manufacturers.

 

Well happy with the displayed over 250 miles for displayed 98% battery charge which in reality is a 275 mile or 440 km range if one is OK with cruising with the trucks on the truck roads, with the occasion blip up to 70 mph to find another sweet spot in the traffic and then some 40 to 50 mph country roads where over 5 miles per kWh, probably around 5.5 miles per kWh the way it drags up the average shown on the display.

 

Soon will have done over 1,000 miles and it has been a joy.  Back seats are too tight for 6 footers I would say.  The Zoe probably gets good mileage from a mix of good tech ie active cooling and being quite a narrow car.  Would not suit everyone or even a family with 2 or 3 older kids, like a LEAF or maybe the PSA family of cars would.  Renault will be hoping the new e-tech Megane EV will fill that role I expect and will look to replace the Zoe with one of those probably in a couple of years time. 

 

So many companies want Teams calls rather than meetings so not doing many miles in the Zoe but hopefully that will change for Chrimbo.  Came across this vid of the R135 components.....