Petrol engine - low power and loses revs when clutch bites

[Bassthang]

This may seem like an elementary question to ask, but I've been a diesel driver (two Passat TDIs) for the last 20 years. I now have a petrol-engined 05 Octavia Elegance, and I'm finding it a lot harder to come to terms with. It may be that I'm simply having problems because I need to re-learn how to drive a petrol-engined car, or (more likely, I think) there are problems with the engine on this one. Hopefully it might be something as simple as needing a basic service.

When I put the key in, the "engine" and EPC lights in the rev counter both come on and stay on until the key is turned. The somewhat vague user manual seems to be saying that these should go out after a few seconds, but other Octavia users I've spoken to reckon that this is normal behaviour.

The car also beeps six times when the key goes in, but I can't find anything in the manual that tells me what this means. There are no errors appearing in the central information display. It may be that this is just a service interval reminder. I have no idea when it was last serviced - the last one recorded in the book was 2013!

 

The car is quite underpowered. We have a lot of hills where we live, and whereas the old diesel just flew up the hills in almost any gear, this one really struggles unless in a very low gear. When I pull away, the revs take a sudden nose-dive when the clutch bites, no matter how careful I am with the clutch and accelerator. Again, this was never a problem with the diesel, and this may be just a matter of me re-acquainting myself with some basic driving techniques that I've not had to use for a while.

 

It's been fine driving around our local (semi-rural) area, but last night I was on an urban journey which involved sticking to 30 on a long, straight road, due to traffic management, and I noticed for the first time that the vehicle felt like it was faltering every now and then, instead of running smoothly at a constant speed.

 

Fuel economy is nowhere near as good as I'd hoped. The onboard system reports 40mpg average on the journeys I normally do (slow and urban at the start, then long stretches of rural roads at higher speeds with few junctions), but I have noticed that I'm putting fuel in more frequently than I did with the old diesel, which reported similar mpg. The fuel gauge needle seems to waver up and down (possibly due to the angle of the vehicle), whereas that on the old diesel was steady and consistent, so this may be colouring my perceptions of how much fuel it's using.

 

My guess is that it simply needs a good service with changes of air and fuel filters, and maybe new spark plugs, but there may be something else going on.
Before I take it in to a garage, I'd appreciate any opinions of other users (especially anyone who has experience moving from a diesel to a petrol vehicle).
 

[pikpilot]

11 hours ago, Bassthang said:

The car is quite underpowered. We have a lot of hills where we live, and whereas the old diesel just flew up the hills in almost any gear, this one really struggles unless in a very low gear. When I pull away, the revs take a sudden nose-dive when the clutch bites, no matter how careful I am with the clutch and accelerator. Again, this was never a problem with the diesel, and this may be just a matter of me re-acquainting myself with some basic driving techniques that I've not had to use for a while.

 

 

With a diesel engine, the revs rise to around 1000 rpm as you bring up the clutch pedal and can produce considerable torque at such revs. I use this to reverse up my drive: bring in the clutch as normal without touching the accelerator and the car will start to move even though there a considerable load on the engine due to the hill. It is like having anti-stall fitted as the revs do not reduce.

 

Try this on a petrol engine and the engine will stall. With a petrol engine you have less torque at low revs and the torque rises initially almost linearly with increasing revs. So in the above example, a petrol engine needs the revs to be increased by using the accelerator before you raise the clutch pedal. It is the same on hills. If you let the revs drop too low you are also reducing the torque available; hence the need for more gear changes. With some diesel cars you can stay in fourth gear most of the time in town but 

you need frequent gear changes in a petrol car. This is a generalisation of course but makes the point.

 

So, use the revs and change to a lower gear earlier and your petrol car will not seem so sluggish - and you have a higher max revs to play with too.

 

 

11 hours ago, Bassthang said:

It's been fine driving around our local (semi-rural) area, but last night I was on an urban journey which involved sticking to 30 on a long, straight road, due to traffic management, and I noticed for the first time that the vehicle felt like it was faltering every now and then, instead of running smoothly at a constant speed.

 

 

At 30 mph you may need to stay in 3rd gear.

 

 

[Bassthang]

Thanks for the reply Pikpilot.
Wow - I knew there was a difference, but didn't think it would be that much!
I'd love to get another diesel - so much easier to drive - but with the Clean Air Zone coming to Brum soon and me with not much money to buy a diesel new enough to meet the requirements, I think I'll just have to learn to get along with this petrol vehicle for the time being.
I've got to get some practice in!

[TheClient]

What petrol engine is it? If it is a fsi vs a 2.0 tdi the torque and rev range required to drive at, will be huuuge.

 

New plugs, filters and an oil change can not hurt especially with that history. But unless it is misfiring underload you may not notice a lot of difference.

 

 

[Phil-E]

Assuming it's either a 1.6 or 2.0 FSI.

 

They are a totally different engine to a turbo diesel.

 

For a start they produce their peak torque at 4000 and 3500rpm respectively. Whereas your previous TDIs likely at more like 1700rpm.

 

Peak power will also likely be all the way up at 6000rpm so they need to be revved to get them going.

 

I'd say it sounds like you're just used to a turbo charged engine where they produce good torque without having to use full throttle all the time.

 

The beeping sounds strange though. Not sure what that is. Possibly something aftermarket?

 

A fault code scan might be a good idea just to rule out any problems.

 

I think they are chain driven engines. So listen for a rattle at startup (a small rattle is normal that should stop after a couple of seconds).

[JamieH86]

Mine beeps a few times when the service is due.  

 

Also on an old Ford Focus I had (perhaps not relevant!) it beeped on starting to let me know there was a problem with the reversing sensor.

[Bassthang]

Thanks all!
Yes, it's an FSI. I'm starting to get to grips with it, now: today I managed quite a few starts from rest without revving like a lunatic!
I'm fairly certain now that the beeping is some service reminder. The manual says this would be explicitly shown on the information panel, but the manual seems to be incorrect on so many issues that I'm inclined to disbelieve it on this one.
I've just remembered that there was a small diagnostic device in the boot when I bought it, along with a lot of other stuff, which all got stored in the garage, pending a good sort-through. I'd better dig it out and see if it works.

[TheClient]

Re the beeping. If it is service reminder there would usually be a small spanner shown when you turn the ignition on. If so, there is a reset procedure without a diagnostic device.

 

But it is good procedure to check for diagnostic faults every so often anyway. Doubt the service reminder will count as a DTC code though.

 

How does your oil look and the air filter and cabin filter. That will tell you if it has been 7 years since any service has been done.

 

 

Edited 12 October, 2020 by TheClient

[Bassthang]

I've just contacted the pevious owner to ask her if she knew when it was last serviced. As the car belonged to her late father, this was a long-shot, but she replied that the last service was October 2019, and it had only done 500 miles between that time and when I bought it a couple of weeks ago. So the beeping can't be a service reminder, unless it's working on time rather than miles driven.

[MikeTheThinker]

11 minutes ago, Bassthang said:

So the beeping can't be a service reminder,

 

It has to be explicitly reset so may have been missed ...

[Bassthang]

Ah - true!
I've had to reset the interval a few times on my old Passat because the mechanic didn't know how / couldn't be bothered to do it.

[TheClient]

Oct 19 to Oct 20 = 1 year. Service interval 372 days or 9400 miles whichever comes first. 

[pikpilot]

You can reset the service indicator yourself but it sounds like it may be worth getting an oil service anyway.The information below is taken from the Driver's Manual for your model and year.

If you don't have a manual, you can download it from here:

https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Model/Octavia_1Z.       Remember to first choose your production year in the drop down box.

 

Resetting Service Interval Display

The service interval displays can also be reset as follows by using the reset button 6 Fig. 2 on the trip counter: 

• Switch off the ignition, press the reset button of the trip counter for distance driven and hold it down.
• Switch the ignition on and release the reset button. Now turn the reset button to the right. The service interval displays are reset.

 

The procedure is different on later models.

[Bassthang]

TheClient: A bit less than one year, as I was getting the same noise when I first bought the car, on 26th September. But you're probably right. (I'm sure the real-time clocks in the cars are about as accurate as those in PCs - that is, not very!)
pikPilot: I agree. For peace of mind, an oil service would be a good idea.

[Bassthang]

Thanks for the manual link, pikpilot. I got printed manuals (for car and Stream) when I bought the car, but due to their layouts and organisation they are a bit tricky to find things in. So having a PDF might make it much easier to find things by keyword.

[Bassthang]

I feel a right twit!
When I started the car the other day, I happened to notice a tiny spanner appear in the information display while it made the beeping sound.
It was probably there all along, but I hadn't spotted it before. So mystery solved: it's a service interval reminder, exactly as TheClient said.

In my defence, I have to say that it's a very small symbol, nestled in among the other figures, and it disappears after a second or two. Maybe they did it that way so the driver wouldn't be distracted once the car was going.
I think the display on the old Passat was much clearer, though.

[Phil-E]

Keep an eye out on eBay for a Maxidot dash. Makes a huge difference to the look at feel of the car. And provides much better feedback on such issues (since it would actually say in text what's wrong). 

 

Also pinpoints individual bulbs if they're out rather than just a general bulb out warning etc.

 

I managed to get one for my previous Octavia for £50.

[pikpilot]

On 13/10/2020 at 00:36, Bassthang said:

Thanks for the manual link, pikpilot. I got printed manuals (for car and Stream) when I bought the car, but due to their layouts and organisation they are a bit tricky to find things in. So having a PDF might make it much easier to find things by keyword.

 

Yes, the pdf version has links attached to all page numbers shown in the index and text references. Click on a page number in the index and it jumps to that page - in my version anyway. Not checked it on yours.

 

[Bassthang]

Just to update the thread: the car needed both rear shocks/springs and a handbrake caliper changing when I took it in for a service (and because of the noise from the rear shocks when they iced up). The garage told me it would cost so much to do this that they recommended just getting rid of the car and getting another one. This was back in January!
Since then, I've spent most of my time looking for a replacement (a process compounded by needing Clean Air Zone compliance, but wanting a diesel engine, 6 gears and a proper handbrake - all on a modest budget - that limited the choice!). I even considered estates like the Astra, Mazda6 and Peugeot 308SW.
In the end I found a 2015 Octavia with 4x4 that pretty much fitted the bill. It's still only 1.6 litre, but the diesel engine and 6 gears really does make a difference. The fuel consumption is still higher than I'd like, but at least it's only £30 tax - and even the insurance is cheaper than the old petrol model. I'd heard from a few people that the 4x4 mode on these (it's not a Scout) and some other cars is not a full 4WD but just a temporary one that kicks in when needed, so that sounds exactly right for our situation (living on a hill that's always icier than everywhere else around here).

[pikpilot]

Check it has NOT had the emissions fix. If there an extra sticker near the wheel well in the boot then it likely has.

[Bassthang]

Something like these?

[Bassthang]

I've just been reading about the emissions fix elsewhere on Briskoda and on other forums. It's all a bit confusing, with lots of people giving contrary opinions. The most interesting discussion I've found so far is on a rock climbing site!
https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/off_belay/vwskodaaudi_emissions_recall_-_any_experiences_of_the_fix-655762

 

[pikpilot]

I was expecting to see a sticker with 23R7 written on it which is for new ECU software plus an addition air flow straighter on the 1.6 CR engine (CAYC).

 

A more positive way is to ask Skoda using their emissions check page.

Enter your VIN in the box:

http://skoda-recallactions.skoda-auto.com/en?s=D&cd=1&_gl=1*wm1nkt*_gcl_aw*R0NMLjE2MzEzNTYwMTguQ2p3S0NBandwTU9JQmhCQUVpd0F5NU02WUgzUDUtbjlfazNobGlNRzdOWU1oZS1YRjBzcnVxTzRGQWJkNGJ4NmY5ZXlGQXFoSXNWWXdob0NORjBRQXZEX0J3RQ..*_gcl_dc*R0NMLjE2MzEzNTYwMTguQ2p3S0NBandwTU9JQmhCQUVpd0F5NU02WUgzUDUtbjlfazNobGlNRzdOWU1oZS1YRjBzcnVxTzRGQWJkNGJ4NmY5ZXlGQXFoSXNWWXdob0NORjBRQXZEX0J3RQ..*GA4_ga*NTkxNWJiYmYtOTdkOS00NmYzLWFhYzEtNTFkOWZiMTEzYzBl*GA4_ga_MS0YW0TWZD*MTYzMTU3MDA5NC45LjAuMTYzMTU3MDA5NS42MA..&_ga=2.198624554.400689272.1631570095-893573748.1616681837&_gac=1.128715390.1631356018.CjwKCAjwpMOIBhBAEiwAy5M6YH3P5-n9_k3hliMG7NYMhe-XF0sruqO4FAbd4bx6f9eyFAqhIsVYwhoCNF0QAvD_BwE