Time for a change !

[JKW]

After 3 Skodas ( 2x Octavias & 1x Karoq),  ALL 3 giving faultless service and having been great transport, I've opted to go all electric with a Kia e Niro in 4+ spec. At the time of ordering details on the Enyaq were sketchy, with a starting price of £40k without options being mooted, so that was out of the question for me. I know its a lot less now, but too late, I've just taken delivery of the fully specced e Niro and so far very happy. My Karoq , in immaculate  condition was returned to Skoda today via BCA  ( it was on lease like the Kia is) therefore its goodbye from me, with best wishes to you all, and onto another motoring adventure !

[Tim1631]

Bye

[john999boy]

It’d be interesting to have an in depth review of the new car too. 

[MJ1]

JKW if you can spare the time and effort I would too like to know how you get on with Kia and your new car. I have been a long time Skoda fan but feel Kia might be the new Skoda so keen to hear your views...

[JKW]

Thanks guys - I will certainly provide a review / views  of my Kia. I've been getting it organised today, re- stocking (!?!) it with stuff I always carry around, plus installing my radar detector & dashcam whilst hiding the cables under the trim etc. First thoughts ; great build quality, unsure about the view outside from the front which divides opinion that's for sure;  the "toys" are a revelation, from the heated steering wheel to the drivers seat automatically moving rearwards when you open the door which eases egress, yet returns to the correct position when getting back in, to the  spacious interior, and the boot is a good size too with loads of cubby space under the boot floor. The touch screen has a multitude of items that I've yet to fully explore. No spare wheel in the Niro which is a shame, just a compressor & "gunk kit" so not even a jack or wheel brace provided either. Only very limited driving done as yet, but as soon as things allow, I'll provide more info, but so far so very good, even re charging at the free Pod Point Chargers at Tesco's is a doddle, although I'm getting my home charger installed on Monday if all goes to plan. With a realistic 250 mile range on a full charge, once per month (about £8 ) should do me, costing FAR less than my Karoq did, which itself was pretty good doing about 40mpg on average. Anyway, more to follow as things develop........

[Defenderben]

I thoroughly enjoyed the driving experience of an EV (BMW i3) from the instant torque but with limited range of around 140 miles, I spent far too long trying to plan journeys. Worrying if the charger would be working when you get there or if it was blocked by some ignorant ICE owner etc.

 

250 miles is a much better and usable range, hope you enjoy it 👍

[Phil245]

15 hours ago, JKW said:

With a realistic 250 mile range on a full charge, once per month (about £8 ) should do me, costing FAR less than my Karoq did, which itself was pretty good doing about 40mpg on average.

 

I'm not being funny, because I will probably have an electric car next,...... but.....are you saying that you will do 250 miles in a month? and that is a charge at £8....? ( Or did you mean per week ?)

 

My TDi Karoq averages 50mpg so 250 miles is about £25 in diesel at the moment, so that would be a £13 a month saving over a diesel for me and perhaps £24 a month for you (at 40mpg).

 

Those aren't really earth shattering figures are they....?

 

Or have I missed something...?

[Ootohere]

@JKW

With Octopus Energy you can get a very good tariff if you have a Smart Meter and home charger.

They might even ask you to charge at Off Peak times to help balance the grid, and pay you to charge your car or bake / do your washing etc through the night.

http://octopus.energy

 

 

Unless Tesco have Rapid CCS Chargers you need to be parked there for some period of time to get much energy into the car.

I have yet to see anyone charging at Tesco Charge points.

 

I see lots of Hybrids parked / charging for hour after hour at ASDA chargers.

 

There are Ionity Chargers at 4 locations in thew UK, and 2 of them are in Scotland @ Gretna Green & Perth.

Free EV Charging in Scotland at ChargePlace Scotland charging points, but Dundee Council have started charging to charge, and Fife Council starts from 16th November.

There are also ChargePlace Scotland chargers in and around the Cairngorms National park that are £3,80 to connect to a charger.

 

I have done 4,400 miles since 10th August and have paid under £13 in total and that was twice charging at InstaVolt chargers.

All other charges are at Public Chargers for free.

 

You can get a card for £20 that allows free charging in Scotland, or use a phone app.

 

Not entirely free...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[JKW]

Phil245 - Yep, current mileage 250 miles per MONTH, because a) I'm retired so no commuting, & b) current Covid restrictions curtail much of the travel we used to do such as meals out & retail therapy ! Once the pandemic situation is resolved I still only envisage a monthly average of approx 400 miles, so my running costs will be minimal, probably £20 at most compared to the Karoq's petrol cost of about £50 plus. Over my 4 year lease that's quite some saving in addition to a) having an even better car than the Skoda IMO, & b) doing my bit to save the planet LOL !

E-Roottoot - I'm already with Octopus, and after my Pod Point wall charger is hopefully installed tomorrow, will look further into my options with them - we have solar panels so sunny days might even produce free charging too !

With regards Tesco free charging stations, I see them regularly in use with vacant ones always available ( at present anyway - being retired I can choose the best times to visit). You mention needing plenty of time needed to re charge at Tesco's ( it would only be for a quick top up needed anyway), you've not seen how much time my missus takes when out shopping !!

[JKW]

Pod point wall charger installed today, a brilliant job done. The tethered cable is 7.5 metres long & easily reaches the connection point at the front of the car ( I prefer reversing into my drive). Just had to test it !! I needed 83 miles to top up fully, & despite being a damp, dismal day with minimal solar power, it cost £3.16p in total. Petrol cost approx £10 for that mileage, therefore about £7 saving already ! I know it's an expense to get the car, wall box etc, but in my humble opinion, as I was due to change cars anyway, it's well worth it, PLUS, I'm helping save the planet !! 

[Karock]

"PLUS, I'm helping save the planet !! "

 

Do you really believe that?

 

Electric vehicles are clean while being driven and no doubt bring benefits of cleaner air to City  centres but what about the pollution caused during manufacture and especially producing the batteries

not to mention disposal of the batteries when spent.

 

Compared to a conventional petrol or diesel car I doubt very much that the overall saving by going electric amounts to very much if everything is considered, politicians are quick to claim the benefits but much slower to acknowledge the true figures.

 

An old say 2000's car kept running for 20 years is I believe much greener if everything is considered when compared to modern cars that many folk change every 3 years. Provided they are kept out of city centres.

 

If all cars were electric how would the National grid cope? With several Nuclear generating sites closing over the next few years electricity is going to be on a knife edge anyway without the huge demand a surge in electric vehicles would bring.

 

Just my opinion.

[Ootohere]

http://gridwatch.co.uk

 

There are none as blind as those that will not see.

Like just how much electricity is required to be generated to refine oils, and how much oil and gas is required to transport oil to refine it.

 

The changes need to come to reduce pollution on the UK which are 4 island nations.

Lots of wind and water all around and limited supplies of oil and gas if it is not being bought in.

The gas is bought in from the US to run the refineries and cracking plants and then electricity stations running on oil are required just to power the refineries.

 

 

 

Edited 9 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[croquemonsieur]

The simplicity of electric cars is very appealing, reduction of city air pollution, none of that DSG complexity, differentials & transmission generally not needed, stop / start, engine management etc. redundant, so much less servicing.

 

BUT...... My thoughts on electric cars as they are at the moment, negatives and pluses.

 

###    It seems an electric car uses 50% more energy in the making, at the moment anyway.  Surprised me.

###    That extra energy is nullified in 2 years if charging electricity is from renewable resources.  If not, there's no overall energy advantage over the lifetime of the car.

###    Lithium extraction is not an environmentally friendly process, mainly affecting some South American countries.

###    Battery cars remove much (but not all) vehicle air pollution from cities where most people live and work, but transfer the problem to areas where Lithium is extracted and made into batteries.

###    In modern efficient cars, 50% of particulate pollution comes from brakes and tyres (some nasty plastic micro stuff in latter).  Regenerative braking can save on conventional braking emissions, but tyre wear - what can be done about that - maybe only gentle acceleration, cornering and braking can reduce this - not a popular concept amongst car enthusiasts.

###    Easier to do 4 wheel drive in electric cars and to adjust the power to each wheel better as befits the situation.  I recall reading many years ago that Audi reckoned 4wd saved a bit of friction loss at the wheels as well as all the other handling / traction advantages, but of course more than counteracted by losses if done mechanically.

###    We are only extracting a fraction of the amount of Lithium that will be needed, if Lithium battery cars become widespread, where will it come from?

###    But there maybe enough Lithium in Cornwall for all of Britain's needs.

###    Also there's lots of Lithium dissolved in the sea (ditto uranium and other valuable materials) - extraction may possibly just become viable via a potentially sustainable.way of using sea water to irrigate desert areas, without putting salt backinto the sea.

###    No-one seems to be trying to recycle Lithium at the moment.

###    Life time, energy density and cost of making Lithium batteries improves steadily over time.  Is the Tesla million mile battery imminent?

###    Solar collecting surfaces on car roofs & bonnets might extend range maybe up to 50miles or ultimately up to 100 miles if they can approach that magic 50% efficiency, currently maybe 20%.  Will have to keep them clean.

###    Electric cars can be very efficient in use cycle, up to 80% maybe.  Hydrogen efficiency at the moment in cars is around 25%.  Petrol diesel cars we know are inefficient throughout the cycle and there's that pollution.

###    How much do cars contribute to global warming & other environmental problems - keeping buildings warm & agriculture, particualarly meat eating, seem to be the biggest CO2 contributors.

 

No doubt technological developments will alter and hopefully continue to improve the picture and maybe alternatives to Lithium will eventually emerge.  But, being for or against isn't a straightforward stance, as for many things.

 

However, it's superficially strange that current hybrid cars keep all that complex transmission.  Why not just use the engine purely to help power the electric motor(s) and charge the battery.  We know petrol engines can be made more efficient if operating in restricted rev range & limited to operating at maximum power.  The only such - sort of -  example I'm aware of is the original BMW electric car with the range extender engine, but I understand that's not done anymore.  Likely, the reason is the inherent & ineviatable inertia of investment in traditional manufacting techniques.

[Ootohere]

BMW Range Extenders are no longer done where an ICE engines is carried.

When you meet people with them they seem to love them and intend to have them as a keeper.

The i3's on the roads now might be around for a decade or 2 or 3 as corrosion will not be the issue and updates of batteries and motors might well have then running long into the future, and the old batteries will be getting used as storage batteries.

 

Black Cabs / White or any colour cabs, so London Taxis and for elsewhere, and Light Commercials have an Engine that charges a battery.

They spend lots of time charging at points around Edinburgh and some muppets sit charging to 100% keeping others from just getting enough charge to move on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[Luckypants]

@JKW I'd be interested to know who you are leasing from. Current projections look like e-Niro might be the replacement for my Karoq, so I got a quote from WeVee. Thats quite a lot more than my Karoq, so any tips on where to look would be appreciated.

[JKW]

3 hours ago, Luckypants said:

@JKW I'd be interested to know who you are leasing from. Current projections look like e-Niro might be the replacement for my Karoq, so I got a quote from WeVee. Thats quite a lot more than my Karoq, so any tips on where to look would be appreciated.

I've leased it direct from Kia, who have ADL as their finance arm. Because I took it over 4 years (3 for the Karoq), I'm paying about £10 per month LESS than the Karoq cost me, ( I did reduce my mileage projection), and that includes the full maintenance package ( puncture repairs / replacement tyres, 4years RAC cover etc). I did shop around (Car Wow, Select Leasing) but found the Kia deal the best overall. Incidentally, despite having taken delivery of the car a week ago, I've not paid a penny for it yet - ADL don't want anything until the 20th and my £500 deposit was refunded by the dealership on the collection day !  

[JKW]

17 hours ago, Karock said:

"PLUS, I'm helping save the planet !! "

That was said tongue in cheek - at my age I've no chance of saving a penalty never mind the planet ! I chose an electric car because I wanted a change, having had plenty of diesel & petrol engined cars during my lifetime, which also have their downsides too. As they say, each to their own.....

 

 

J

 

[Phil245]

11 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

Black Cabs / White or any colour cabs, so London Taxis and for elsewhere, and Light Commercials have an Engine that charges a battery.

 

Yep,  including the new Ford Transit Hybrid.

 

https://www.ford.co.uk/shop/specialist-sales/fleet/phev/fords-plug-in-hybrid-electric

 

To me, that looked like the way forward in the short term, but IIRC wasn't popular in the Vauxhall Ampera/Chevy Volt...?

 

But I too will probably go pure EV next time. Losing the maintenance requirement of an ICE appeals, and my 40 mile a day commute and I already have a plug socket on my drive for the camper van mean an EV will fit in as part of our fleet.....

[Ootohere]

@Phil245

The Amprera owners i have met at charging stations loved there cars. (only 2 of them) Very smart their 8 year old car were.

(Both at Kinross Park & Ride, and both had been kept in the same families from new and looked like new.)

It is best to talk to people that own or run cars rather than just take what Motoring Journalists might write.

http://autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/ampera

 

OPEL/ Vauxhall / GM were ahead of the VW Group with their 1.4TSI Hybrid e-Golf (GTE) and e-A3 Audi, and never had to stop building them because their C02 g/km was fiction with the first ones.

 

PSA Group have a selection of EV's Cars & Light Commercials with OPEL / Vauxhall, Peugeot, DS / Citroen but all the same drive trains & their Plug in's for sale and on the roads just like KIA / Hyundai because they did the R&D and evolved the cars and people have them, 

where as the VW Group talk lots, launch cars like the e-Up!/Mii electric / Citigo iV then discontinue the Citigo iV, launch the ID.3 with Software Issues and have yet to start delivering the Skoda EV's, just the Plug in Hybrids.

The Audi EV's are out there, so you pay your lots of money and get a lovely car with limited range.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[croquemonsieur]

Interesting, looks like vans are ahead in the hybrid scene.  I note that black cab / van is backed by Volvo - I did read a couple of years ago that they (Volvo) were experimenting with this more logical form of hybrid and with electric motors directly at the wheels - they were claiming impressive fuel economy.  If there isn't enough Lithium to go round, at present at least, maybe Hybrids can share it out amongst more vehicles and achieve worthwhile carbon emission reductions.

 

I note that the Covid pandemic that hit oil prices hard has meant he big companies have significantly reduced exploration and when things get back to normal, there could well be a shortage of oil for a while and petrol/diesel prices will increase when demand overtakes supply.  This will no doubt accelerate moves to Electric / Hybrid cars.

 

However, I did read in Autocar a few years ago that Skoda had looked into the whole sustainable car use issue and concluded that powering by natural gas was the best way forward, but they seem to have forgotten that for now.  Maybe legislation + general industrial & public perceptions have discouraged Skoda from promoting this.  Natural Gas conversions have been around in a small way for ages as a way of avoiding fuel tax, but a small point - do car ferries allow such vehicle to be carried with that explosive gas abord - ditto hydrogen.

[Phil245]

10 hours ago, croquemonsieur said:

do car ferries allow such vehicle to be carried with that explosive gas abord - ditto hydrogen.

 

Dozens of camper vans & motorhomes have LPG tanks and LPG cylinders and go on ferries & Eurotunnel every day.....

[Ootohere]

@croquemonsieur

LPG is a cheap product and is taken off from the pipeline bringing north sea oil in at Cruden Bay to Grangemouth.

INEOS own that pipeline now.  (INEOS that are building the new Grenadier 4x4 / the modern Improvement on the LR DEFENDERS.)

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-54886707

 

 

Skoda do the natural gas engines in the countries with the infrastructure, that is not the UK.

In Dundee the Council Grants to run LPG & for conversions were popular & many taxis used LPG for a few years. (

& LPG as used on Farms in grain driers & Home Heating has no marked dye....)

 

I ran V8 Landy's on LPG only without petrol so no Tacho required when towing commercially, & when it was only 50 pence a litre and petrol was £1. but then when the chancellor was putting 2 pence a litre on fuel and ASDA stopped giving 2 pence a litre off with a ASDA credit card i stopped using LPG.  It was easy filling up in the North of Scotland by less so as i went south, and pretty poor in England.

 

I had 2 tanks that added up to 220  litres of LPG though in my last 110 4.6 V8 auto that made for pretty cheap towing as i got 2.5 miles to the litre minimum and sometimes as much as 3.5 miles..

 

I was refused on Ferries to Northern Ireland when they looked in the back. 

They wanted to open the tank.    Luckily i never used the B*MB word, but i still never got to do the crossing.

 

 

Edited 12 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[Phil245]

Seemingly the new Nissan Cashcow will use electric motors to drive the wheels with a petrol engine to charge the battery,  as well......

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-tyne-54931105

 

James May knew the way forward 10 years ago  !!

 

https://topgear.fandom.com/wiki/Hammerhead_Eagle_i-Thrust

 

.

Edited 14 November, 2020 by Phil245

[croquemonsieur]

I'll look forward to reviews of that and even a test drive next year, as there's a dealer not far away.  I think I'm correct in saying that the auto versions only recently changed from belt style gearboxes to DSGs, so that new box won't be in production long.

 

'Which' marked the current Quashquai down for reliability, noting the batteries are a big problem - maybe they were Mols - but that hasn't stop the car selling well.

 

The magazine recently looked at the 4wd 'conventional' plug-in hybrid version of the Peugeot 3008 and liked it - refined, comfortable and fast, though a good bit of the boot volume that's in ICE models, is then taken up by the batteries.  It's available in combined ouputs of 225 or 300hp - the world's gone mad -  115hp is fast enough for me - expect some comeback from that.  Whatever might be saved in particulate pollution from the engine could be counteracted by ditto coming from the tyres, as it screams away from the traffic lights.  The battery only range of 35 miles didn't impress me and the car doesn't seem particularly economical on long runs (but it is mechanical 4WD).  However on shorter distances it challenges diesels, which is to be expected.  As it's somewhat heavier than the standard model, the handing & ultimate road holding is bit more ponderous, but the ride is better and 'grip' and braking very good.

[JKW]

In response to johnboy999 & MJ1's request for an update / review of my e Niro, here goes ; I still find the whole experience impressive, although still finding out something new every day ! The car has great acceleration, runs smoothly and quietly, is seemingly very well built with, in spec 4+ trim, every possible "toy" I could wish for. Almost a month in now, less than 250 miles covered but apart from the £3.16p spent when testing my wall charger, my costs have been NIL (thanks Tesco & Pod Point !). I plug in when out shopping, & once completed, unplug to find any mileage covered prior has been replaced. I've decided that now I know the score, to let the battery run down to about 60% before charging again (from home this time) as advice seems to be keeping the high power battery between 60-80% as the ideal. I'll still use Tesco's but maybe alternate chargers between theirs & home.

Space inside is plentiful, but the boot is smaller than the Karoq's was - loads of decently sized cubbys in the cabin and under the boot "floor" (where the charging cables reside) but no spare wheel, which I regret. I've always carried out weekly checks on every car I've had, but the e Niro only needs tyres ( screen shows each wheels pressure anyway) and windscreen wash check ups. I've got full maintenance / servicing in my lease agreement but am wondering what service they'll need to do  ( no oils, anti freeze, filters etc) !?! Probably just an inspection I reckon - even the brakes shouldn't need attention as the re gen braking (very effective in both slowing down whilst re charging the battery) means I can practically come to a stop without touching the brake pedal. The car rides the broken tarmac of our scarred roads much better than the Karoq ever did ( I didn't have DCC fitted) and the range is equally impressive - I don't think I need fear range anxiety with this car, it will easily do 250 miles even in winter it seems ( mine shows 276 miles on leaving Tesco). The quality inside is good too, JBL infotainment system is spot on, and the DAB radio does not drop out like the Karoq's did quite often ! The Karoq DID have a CD player and more importantly, an SD Card slot for my music collection - the e Niro has neither, although does play through a USB memory stick, so all is not lost ( even displays music video on the screen !). Fit n finish seem great, no rattles or panel gaps inside or out, and the quality of the materials inside seem good to me. So overall, am I happy with the eNiro?  Most definitely, and whilst it's still early days, I reckon I'll remain so. If there's anything I've missed reporting on, or you have any Q's, please feel free to ask - I'll keep looking into the Karoq forum for a while yet - Stay safe & stay well. JKW