how to change stop start battery

Done it's on my Yeti and it needs coding. Even if the same battery type then you have to tell the car a different serial number so it resets all the charge parameters to a new battery. I changed battery manufacturer, Ah rating and battery type EFB to AGM   So I had even more bits to update.

None were hard as I have a VCDS cable but it's not just swap the battery with some spanners and done.

Sounds like a cash-making opportunity for dealerships to me!

 

You don't have to go a dealer. I just got a battery online from Tayna and swapped it myself.

If you don't have VCDS, Carista etc then check the VCDS Owners map for someone local. Physically swap the battery yourself and find a local VCDS owner to then update the gateway.

My son's Citigo suddenly failed to start a couple of days after a 120m run.  Dash lights still came on and windows work, but no power to turn the motor over.  Used jump leads to check that it was not the starter motor or something else, started immediately.  On getting home, would not start again but windows worked (slowly).

 

The main questions/observations are as follows:

 

1.  At no time did the battery light appear on the dash and there was no yellow colour on the battery 'window'.

2.  Am I correct in thinking that a new battery really has to be recoded to the car, as per Aubrey's post a few years ago.

3.  I'd like to avoid dealers or garages so, is it easy to download the software and obtain the hardware to do this myself.

 

There are a couple of VCDS guys near me in Wakefield, one in Wakefield itself  and the other in Pontefract.  Would be happy to contact them if they can help.

 

Cheers all!

Edited 16 March, 20242 yr by beezera10

I'd be suspicious of the charging if immediately after a good run it couldn't start. Even bad batteries would immediately start the vehicle. I note you did say no warning light was up while driving though. At the very least can you confirm the voltage on the battery when the engine is running, is it 13.5 to 14.5 volts. How old is the battery ? Has it been sluggish, slow turn over, with starting for a while ?

Maybe I'm just being too cautious and not just immediately blaming the battery.

Edit: just reread you say a couple of days after a long run. OK, in that case I would blame the battery.

I've read lots of comments if you swap the same type of battery and Ah rating then coding is not so important. Get it done if you can but don't sweat too much if a similar like for like battery swap.

Edited 16 March, 20242 yr by aubrey

Cheers Aubrey, and thanks for your quick reply.  We acquired the car at 3 years old with 12k on the clock, and I doubt the battery was changed in that time.  We've had the car almost 7 years so, if I'm right, the battery is coming up to 9-10 years old.  It hasn't turned over as quickly just recently, that has been noticeable.

 

Thanks for the coding advice!  I haven't investigated the Ah rating just yet, and I think the original is EFB rather than AGM (again not sure just yet).  I know the car isn't very heavy on power, so I'm guessing EFB.  This is the item I have in mind.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254879881479?epid=2288064656&itmmeta=01HS4GGH0YP21079NAW9F4869Z&hash=item3b58065907:g:ZUIAAOSw6W9knqh-&itmprp=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0HFEMV5wamrwgbzE1xlWMjSqjYc--64abuIJmFcUz2vh29A%2FYKs%2FpiI%2BxppOw%2BUN6K50feYrZiCyT5nQGlpfIKhJ51wlqKhgLqIKdV%2Fg5odxZARY1Es03gTJ%2FcOkpfCK9idmnw63KCocPJpRhqH3wrXcQ8g9Cml9l1WIYXKkSl9wEZrM15W4opogTnvK2GbrjvuGpVMiizMYlkqV2A%2BiYKEG4VSrK0nFm04XGrN25NUWNqaq%2FUOj7encNQSOh5N4oSw6d2%2Fmdw%2BGWuFLIAaNQFk%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR9CQwpDJYw

 

Thanks again!

 

Maybe not this battery as the terminal shape doesn't look right??

Edited 16 March, 20242 yr by beezera10

You could try putting your reg number into

https://www.tayna.co.uk/

Cheers Aubrey, I've done that.  Was looking for a better brand at a keener price.

 

I don't suppose you know, offhand, whether the original battery is AGM or EFB - will be checking anyway.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

@beezera10 Most likely your original battery was EFB if your car has automatic stop-start - if so, strongly recommend getting any replacement battery adapted (coded) into your vehicles system via VCDS.

Cheers!  It is EFB and the replacement is 60Ah with the same CCA of 640, identical to the original apart from going from 59Ah to 60Ah.  

 

There is a lot of conflicting advice on the coding.  Some say that the vehicle's computer will adapt to the new battery without coding.  Also, the handbook doesn't specify recoding at all if the battery capacity and specs are the same.  All the suppliers I've looked at (including Tayna) never mention it, although you would have thought they might if there's a risk to the battery.  Just wondering if it's only on increasing the specs from standard that recoding may become more important?

 

I never use the stop-start, and this seems to be the main reason for coding so that charge can be kept optimal and managed more closely.  If so, I'm guessing that it may not be as important to do the coding if the battery isn't under this extra load??

 

What would I need if I did decide to do VCDS myself, and how much would it cost?

There is a register of members who are prepared to assist with VCDS coding - usually for 'beer tokens' Search for VCDS map.

 

If you normally switch off stop start  every time you drive, the 'smart charging'  energy recuperation system will still be active - this limits battery charging  to around 75% to allow capacity for regenerative charging.

 

Even if the replacement is identical spec. to original, battery adaptation is recommended to let the BCM know that any faults that may have been causing the smart charging system to limit alternator output have now been removed and the system can revert to manufacturers settings.  

Thanks mate.  There are a couple of members near me.  I've messaged one but he's not posted in a year or so.  May well try the other guy.  TBH, didn't know the Citigo had energy recuperation.  I'm guessing that the battery will be ok for a short period of time prior to coding - need it back on the road asap.

 

Appreciate your help!

"Citigo had energy recuperation"...

Yes is does, and AFAIK all cars with smart alternators do.

When come off the throttle, the alternator kicks in (depending battery charge state), and uses some of the car's kinetic energy to charge, hence "energy recuperation".  As soon as you back on the throttle, the alternator is turned off, but will periodically start up to keep the battery at 80% or similar level.

A great feature, but it really messes with caravan owners, who largely don't understand why leisure batteries don't charged on older caravans lacking DC-DC converters!

Cheers 

 

Are you in agreement about the necessity to get the battery coded?

1 hour ago, beezera10 said:

Cheers 

 

Are you in agreement about the necessity to get the battery coded?

Strongly recommend.

On 16/03/2024 at 19:13, beezera10 said:

My son's Citigo suddenly failed to start a couple of days after a 120m run.  Dash lights still came on and windows work, but no power to turn the motor over. 

 

 At no time did the battery light appear on the dash and there was no yellow colour on the battery 'window'.

 

 Am I correct in thinking that a new battery really has to be recoded to the car, as per Aubrey's post a few years ago.

 

There are a couple of VCDS guys near me in Wakefield, one in Wakefield itself  and the other in Pontefract.  Would be happy to contact them if they can help.

 

The following isn't to say too late now but to help for the future. 

 

You put you turn the start/stop off and that it was noticeable that the starting hasn't It hasn't turned over as quickly just recently - that was your warning, don't wait for lights or messages, and don't take too much notice of the battery "magic eye" or ball (I think they only work on one out of the six cells anyway?) putting the battery on a long, low. slow charge with an appropriate battery charger maintainer then may have recovered it enough for a bit more more useful life.  Appropriate use of an appropriate charger maintainer for preventive charges previously may have extended the useful battery life even further and when necessary could extend the useful life of the new battery, bear in mind the alternator and car are no longer new as they originally were for the previous battery.

 

I go with best to 'code' the battery just to be sure but don't panic about it being done absolutely at point of new battery installation.  I would fit the new battery and immediately fully charge it (won't take long if the new battery is well charged, ready to fit doesn't always /usually(?) mean fully charged) with an appropriate battery charger maintainer reading and following the advice in the car's Owner's Manual and battery charger instructions that way the car's computer program can see the battery has ben charged to full so might then know, even if not told by 'coding' that the battery is new, that the battery is fully charged and not on its arse as before.

 

After you fitted and fully charged the new battery start the car, with the engine running turn the steering wheel to full lock both ways, put the lights and air-con on, to my mind this will tell the computers the car can cope with the electrical load so battery (alternator) are up to snuff so it can rest it's little mind.  I might be wrong with this and it's unnecessary but it's all quick, easy, virtually free of cost and you're out of the elements and not getting your hands dirty so best type of car work to try.

 

Another bit of info you also might or might not be interested in, to save virtual space and virtual ink  you can put direct hyperlink to eBay items by just putting up to the end of the item (itm) number, e.g. - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254879881479 

 

Terminal type looks OK to me, see "Compare terminal type" here. - https://www.tayna.co.uk/tutorials/how-to-choose-a-car-battery

 

The Hankook 60AH SE56010 is 560 CCA (EN) according to their catalogue (page 21). - https://cdn.hankook-atlasbx.com/PRD/CUSTOMER/20210817/4e4fbc9f-6367-4134-ba7c-a3e33e1e31ca/HANKOOK_GLOBAL_C.pdf

 

Moll batteries IIRC(?) were rated at CCA EN(?).

 

CCA and EN Ratings on Car Batteries Explained - https://growenergy.com.au/news/15616-cca-en-ratings-car-batteries

 

VAarta Blue Dynamic EFB 12v 60Ah  (560500064) (027 EFB) is 640 CCA (EN) - https://cdn.tayna.com/datasheets/Varta N60 Blue Dynamic EFB 560 500 064 Data Sheet.pdf

 

HTH.

 

Edited 18 March, 20242 yr by nta16
spelling

Thanks Nigel, excellent advice, will check out everything you've said!

Other half's 67 plate CitiGo shows sign of the battery is getting 'tired' and I reckon it could do with a swap before the winter sets in. The car does not have the Stop/Start trickery.

 

So, a numpty question. Would I be right in assuming this is a simple DIY job (I have done very little with a car in the last 20 years 🙄) or will it need [VCDS] coding and/or radio re-enabling etc.

 

Thanks.

This is a simple DIY job, disconnect the negative first then the positive.  It's the other way round when connecting the new battery (positive first then negative).  My son's car has stop/start, the battery went straight on, everything worked fine and the car runs/charges normally with no need to VCDS (just replaced with a similar EFB battery, 60Ah, CCA 640).

 

Because yours has no stop/start, it may well be a standard battery rather than EFB/AGM, etc, which should be cheaper.  Just make sure the battery you get is similar type and output and you should be fine.  As for the radio, I had no problem at all - everything just worked.  The only thing you need to change is the time.

Before considering changing the battery, possibly prematurely, why not try a slow (time), low (amperage) full recharge of the battery using an appropriate battery charger maintainer, following the instructions in the car's 'Owners Manual' and for the charger maintainer.  This might require two things that many don't keep much stock of and might not have one or the other, or for some both, time and patience.  If the battery is in a low state of charge it might take many hours to fully recharge slow and low perhaps overnight and more or 24+ or more.

 

It also depends on what you mean by 'tired', if you mean the battery uses a bit of time and effort or struggles to start the engine then the battery is very low in charge and if this situation has been going on for a while or has happened before then the battery might also be in a lower state of health too,  You can possibly get more good life out of the battery even then by the low slow recharge to full with an an appropriate battery charger maintainer, following the instructions in the car's 'Owners Manual' and for the charger maintainer but it does depend on the level of use/abuse and neglect the battery's had. 

 

For 'coding;, if your battery has a monitoring connection on the battery earth terminal connector then it'd be best to get it 'coded' even if replacing with the same type of battery (standard/EFB/AGM) and (about) the same amps hours (Ah).

 

What you need to do when disconnecting/reconnecting your battery and what needs to be reset will be in your car's 'Owner's Manual' normally even if it has the radio it's not required but that depends perhaps and certainly if you have put in an after market radio.  Basically make sure all electric windows are fully closed, sunroof fully closed and all electrics are switched off before you disconnect the battery and there shouldn't be a lot to do other than perhaps time of day clock.

 

In your car's 'Owner's Manual' if it has for recharging the battery to connect to an a body earth point that might be a sign you have battery monitoring.

 

Let us know how you get on whether trying recharging or replacement.

 

My son's car has a monitoring connection on the earth, but its still made no difference to anything.  It would appear the car's ECU 'learns' that a new battery is in place and adjusts accordingly.  I also didn't do anything with windows, etc.  Have had no problems with anything on the car.  Also, the original battery had a catastrophic failure due to some internal trauma.  It was instant and without warning.  You could squeeze some more life out of the battery with a recharge, and test the voltage across the terminals, etc.  My son's battery read 8v across the terminals, it should be over 12v if it's still any good.

 

I did ring a garage about the VCDS thing.  They said if it was a Land Rover Discovery, then maybe a good idea.  For a Citigo, don't worry.

1 minute ago, beezera10 said:

My son's car has a monitoring connection on the earth, but its still made no difference to anything.  It would appear the car's ECU 'learns' that a new battery is in place and adjusts accordingly.

Yeap that could be so, I put best to get the battery 'coded' really for start/stop monitoring but many don't and report no issues, who knows without monitoring the battery and seeing it full life how much odds the 'coding' or not 'coding' makes and how long the computer takes to learn the battery has improved so much and in the meantime has much life might have been shaved off the new battery, I suspect very little but I have no proof of that and I have a theory to get around that but no proof.

 

 

9 minutes ago, beezera10 said:

Also, the original battery had a catastrophic failure due to some internal trauma.

I'm not saying that it's not possible to get a faulty battery but that would be very rare, more that something external would be the cause.

 

 

12 minutes ago, beezera10 said:

You could squeeze some more life out of the battery with a recharge, and test the voltage across the terminals, etc.

You could get a lot more reliable life but it does depend on a few variables.  As for testing on the battery terminals that is what I always suggest but you do want a tested (for conformation) tester and to do this as many hours after the battery has been recharged as possible and allow say 0.2v or 0.3v draw of the car's systems.  This does remind me of something I meant to put in my previous post.

 

 

17 minutes ago, beezera10 said:

My son's battery read 8v across the terminals,

I have recovered batteries at much, much lower voltages, this is not always possible with many modern "smart" chargers (unless you trick them) but old battery chargers can do it with a good stock of both time and patience.  I may not trust the batteries taken down to extremely low voltages for much use and certainly not on a modern German marque car (such as VWŠkoda) even if they're not start/stop.

 

 

24 minutes ago, beezera10 said:

it should be over 12v if it's still any good

Slight correction there, 12v would be low, a new battery fully charged (not all new batteries are fully charged when fitted) would show before fitting 12.7v /12.8v perhaps even 12.9v depending on a few variables.

 

Here is a VW battery voltage list. - 

 

"Charge level             No-load          voltage

1.28 g/cm3                 100%              12.7 V

1.21 g/cm3                 60%                12.3 V

1.18 g/cm3                 40%                12.1 V

1.10 g/cm3                 0%                  11.7 V"

 

HTH.

@SteveTheElder something I forgot, to help decided if it's worth recharging your battery.  If you don't have start/stop then you might have (no battery monitoring, so no 'coding') a standard battery and it might be possible to look at each of the battery's 6 cells to check the "water/acid" (electrolyte) levels in each cell to check they are at the correct level and also the state of the plates in each cell.  Often if the battery is not sealed the screw off cell covers are just under the sticky top label(s) and you only need to peel the label(s) back to see them.

 

If the plates in the cell(s) are buckled (usually end cell) then you could still recharge the battery to give more time and battery but you do want to replace the battery ASAP.

 

Obviously for any of above required safety precautions should be taken.

 

If standard battery I would take the battery off the car to recharge it if possible.

 

Before fitting a new battery to a car I always fully charge it, if it's already "fully charged" then this won't take long at all, if I'm fitting a new battery I want to know it was as good as it could be when I fitted it.

 

For new battery unless you're not keeping the car long get the best battery you can, don't be fooled by impressive figures for CCA, you need to compare apples with apples so you want to check and compare the CCA figures given as EN.  And look for the manufacturers leaflets/catalogues for these figures as suppliers don't always give the correct figures.  Ah figures don't have different systems of specification so provided they are correct you are comparing apples with apples.  Do bear in mind both are quoted for when the battery is new, a better battery will sustain nearer its new figures for longer with age and use.

  

Edited 15 August, 20241 yr by nta16
typos

Thanks very much for all the replies. Brings back lots of memories plus some learning of new factors. The last time I changed a battery was in the 1970’s 😱

 

Think I’ll get it checked, see how it stands up to a load, and then decide what to do.

 

Thanks again