3 hours ago, Papez said:

oilpan is already exposed to underbody airstream

so it was on the back but just a smooth metal surface doesn't have nearly as much surface area as a finned one.

 

4 hours ago, Papez said:

What improvement do you mean? 

more complete ducting to the rad pretty much closing all gaps

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

so it was on the back but just a smooth metal surface doesn't have nearly as much surface area as a finned one.

I wouldn't be sure about that, air acts weird in rear portion of those cars. Models with radiator in back had issues with getting cooling air into engine compartment. Also, these old engines were running with different oil... I think that if finned oilpan was needed, they'd include it - apparently they knew how to make it

 

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

more complete ducting to the rad pretty much closing all gaps

 

with hose going around the rad?

10 hours ago, Papez said:

air acts weird in rear portion of those cars

yes most likely the air doesnt really want to enter the engine bay as its flowing under the car, as the curvature needed to do that is way to steep and the air flow will simply seperate, that means that only turbulence will enter the engine compartment thus reducing the effectiveness of the radiatior. 

 

10 hours ago, Papez said:

I think that if finned oilpan was needed, they'd include it

I dont say its needed but i argue that if he WANTS to improve cooling (marginally or not) he shoyld attempt to do the absolute best

10 hours ago, Papez said:

with hose going around the rad?

no look at his photo with the gap for the condensor pipes and stuff

Edited 20 May, 20215 yr by Thefeliciahacker

20 hours ago, J.R. said:

if I don't know the phrase properly in my mother tongue then I can't expect someone using their second language to.

 

I have served in the GR Army where some phrases were very common but the problem was that if you use them in every day conversation with a Civilian the result would be a disaster.

You could expect from a slap or punch to a lawsuit and end up in a court with a huge fine or in jail.

English are not my mother language and as an adult i don't like to use the modern ''internet slang'' as many teenagers do.

Let's stick here to every day simple english with some technical terms since we are talking about cars otherwise we will end up talking like these:

 

 

21 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Not significant but if we are talking about marginal improvment (which we are)  then yes every little bit helps

 

You are my Man.

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

no look at his photo with the gap for the condensor pipes and stuff

 

he said that there space between radiator and frame, i understood that hose goes around radiator to engine compartment.

 

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

dont say its needed but i argue that if he WANTS to improve cooling (marginally or not) he shoyld attempt to do the absolute best

 

Problem with oil is, that it shouldn't be cooled too much - which could possibly happen with finned oil pan. I think that oil-coolant cooler would be absolute best.

58 minutes ago, Papez said:

which could possibly happen with finned oil pan. I think that oil-coolant cooler would be absolute best.

obviously with oil thermostat in that case

58 minutes ago, Papez said:

e, i understood that hose goes around radiator to engine compartment.

 

ah yes not blocking this hose and dealing with the rest of the area

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

You are my Man

so lets start with radiator duct improvment

19 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

obviously with oil thermostat in that case

thermostat would be needed for oil-air cooler, oil-coolant exchanger is cooled by engine coolant, which is kept at constant temperature - which means that it also helps with warming up in cold weather.

Edited 20 May, 20215 yr by Papez

2 hours ago, Papez said:

oil-air cooler

ah i thought you were talking about a radiator type cooler my bad

4 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

so lets start with radiator duct improvment

 The pipe that i have installed transfers air from the grille to the air box, i thought that this is a way to bring more air inside the box except that factory small hole on the fog light.

Does really Felicia needs that extra air? Keep in mind that i have an Ecu-chiped plus BMC filter and custom exhaust.

 

If not i can extend that pipe to bring more air to a specific place of the engine to help cooling.

Well, lets start from the basic,
I have a lot of faith in oem designed parts, as is the air induction system. Airboxes diameters and volumes are calculated to provide specific flow characteristics at certain rpm ranges.
Generally speaking, you want more air velocity for low rpm performance as that aids in volumetric efficiency.
In order to get velocity, you have to RESTRICT FLOW.
Assuming that rev limit was NOT raised and headwork or camwork was not performed I would say the car has no need for more airflow.
First of all this pipe is not guaranteed to bring cool air as its very near the radiator. Also you are not performing a ram type induction.
As far as the BMC air filter I would say it would marginally help high rpm performance.
But keep in mind this:
Felly is a 2valvle ohv engine, a setup not suited to high rpms.
One intake valve means higher air velocity entering the cylinder which promotes better mixing of fuel at low rpm (at high rpm air becomes turbulent),

that's the reason why the felly even though an oversquare design produces soo much torque at such a low rpm (108nm at 2600rpm).
This can only be achieved by a fairly restrictive intake track which is the case for a factory felly.
That is the reason why this engine is so god damn flexible from idle and has excellent throttle response.
Given that I enjoy this flexibility and low end torque I would NOT modify intake on the felly.
If my goals were more high rpm oriented (which they can NOT be on stock internals as the engine would most likely be limited by valve float) I would look at increasing intake air volume.
Hope that answer coverd you. 

Its not like if the car NEEDS a more free intake BUT RATHER do you wish to alter the engine characteristics

Edited 20 May, 20215 yr by Thefeliciahacker

13 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Does really Felicia needs that extra air? Keep in mind that i have an Ecu-chiped plus BMC filter and custom exhaust.

 

Airbox has been designed for 99HP 1.6 engine (you could see same design in Forman prototype). Intake is in front panel, well isolated from heat in engine bay. So I think that thas part doesn't need improvement. 

14 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Assuming that rev limit was NOT raised and headwork or camwork was not performed I would say the car has no need for more airflow.

First of all this pipe is not guaranteed to bring cool air as its very near the radiator. Also you are not performing a ram type induction.

 

I would look at increasing intake air volume.

 

1) OK i will remove that pipe and leave the stock

2) I have i mind to use a plastic accessory from small vacuum it's the Upholstery Tool, for sure it's not something great but i think will help ''collect'' more air that the simple plastic pipe only

 

 

My thought is to drive that pipe close to the Inlet Manifold to help cooling.

Couple of years ago i visited a well know repair-shop to clean my injectors (as a maintenance there was no problem) and the owner which was a racing driver in his youth told me:

''separate the Inlet manifold from the heat of the Exhaust manifold and you will have a better car" (he meant the performance)

so my next project is a metal sheet (inox) as a shield from the Exhaust.

 

3) How?

 

I don't want to start modifying engine block,camshaft etc, it's too expensive and risky job for this old motor.

Install a better heat shield between exhaust and intake runners. Nothing more to do. 

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by Thefeliciahacker

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Install a better heat shield between exhaust and intake runners. Nothing more to do. 

If we're looking down that sort of route, heat wrap or ceramic coat on the exhaust manifold and downpipe, but I don't know how possible either of those are in Greece.

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

heat wrap or ceramic coat on the exhaust manifold and downpipe, but I don't know how possible either of those are in Greece.

 Heat wrap is popular here at least for 20 years ego (i already have titanium wrap in my exhaust)

Ceramic coat even Cryogenic treatment can be done here but the cost is high so it's a solution for ''racing guys'' with Evo,WRX etc.

 

As for the record i have removed that extra pipe from the grille and now the airbox is taking air only from the factory one

First impressions? Very good response at low-medium rpm, i will make a test at high rpm the next days.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Very good response at low-medium rpm

Ah yes mr Bernoulli strikes again

15 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Ah yes mr Bernoulli strikes again

 

Till now good news my friend, i will make try to go to the National Road to see how it works on the high rpm.

Next step: make the engine bay to ''exhale" better.

Update: I have done a mistake in the past, i was ''sealed" the sides of the hood with U shape self-adhesive stripes (supposed to reduce the noise and stop the dust coming in) but i found that this brought smells from engine bay inside the cabin plus anytime was exiting the car i felt more air from the fan to comes in my feet.

A mechanic which is a specialist on windscreens and relative matters pointed to me that.

I removed them and my first impressions are: the air stopped to comes in my feet while i am exiting from the car, the sides of the hood are much hotter than before because the air escapes through them and no smells on the engine bay.

Now the things are as before, yes the dust and the noise returned but as the engine bay ''exhales" better i have to make a compromise.

@D.FYLAKTOS - I'm pretty sure I told you way up-thread that you need to let hot air out of the engine bay to improve cooling.

7 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@D.FYLAKTOS - I'm pretty sure I told you way up-thread that you need to let hot air out of the engine bay to improve cooling.

I read every post and i give importance especially if it is well-intentioned and written in a non-provocative way.

Drilling-cutting the bonnet is out of question, raising the back also (rain, car washing machine) is a ''No Go'' so i removed those stripes to help the hot air come out plus i tried to ''reinforce'' my coolant adding some Mocool.

 

I wonder if an inox small fan (with a switch on the dashboard with relay-fuse) could help pushing air to left-right so would extract quicker or this is just a fantasy.

 

I also ordered embossed aluminum sheet  plus a high temperature resist (it's self adhensive in the back) aluminum sheet to make a shield for my inlet manifold.

Wrapping with titanium tape will cause me problems in the hot days of summer because this will non let the inlet to cool down because there would be no air circulation.

 

Wait wait brother you had sealed the hood?
Now for the fan, just dont bother.
This Mocool stuff i dont know what it is.
You wrap with titanium tape the part thats getting how and you wrap the part you want cool with heat reflector aka aluminum

Modern cars have bonnet sealed all around and covered most of the engine bay from the bottom and don't have problems. Maybe your mod just lifted the bonnet a little, so rubber around ventilation inlet didn't seal properly? Or it could force fumes to high pressure area under windscreen, which pushed it back to ventilation? Did you seal the bonnet all around or just sides? 

On 25/05/2021 at 10:58, D.FYLAKTOS said:

yes the dust and the noise returned..

 

What dust do you mean? in engine bay?

Edited 26 May, 20215 yr by Papez

22 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Wait wait brother you had sealed the hood?

Now for the fan, just dont bother.

This Mocool stuff i dont know what it is.

You wrap with titanium tape the part thats getting how and you wrap the part you want cool with heat reflector aka aluminum

 

I had for few months those sealing strips

 

 

I thought a small inox fan could help a little bit.

 

Mocool (and relative products as Royal Purple-Amsoil-Red Line-Dei etc) suppose do this:

 

https://d23zpyj32c5wn3.cloudfront.net/images/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/137/MoCool_(GB).pdf?1524069647

 

I have wrapped my exhaust manifold but the custom exhaust maker told me do don't wrap the inlet because i am going to face problem on the hot summer days because it could not cool down normally.

Thus i ordered some materials to make a heat shield for the inlet.

 

12 hours ago, Papez said:

Modern cars have bonnet sealed all around and covered most of the engine bay from the bottom and don't have problems. Maybe your mod just lifted the bonnet a little, so rubber around ventilation inlet didn't seal properly? Or it could force fumes to high pressure area under windscreen, which pushed it back to ventilation? Did you seal the bonnet all around or just sides? 

 

What dust do you mean? in engine bay?

 

I have a link above of what i have done in the past.

The gap on my Felicia (which is an old car) was enough to let some dust come in (we have african dust here plus some from many road constructions)

Yes i had some noise reduction but i could felt the air from the fan pushed to the sides and i had a tiny amount of bad smell coming in.

No hot air from the fan was escaping from the sides of the bonnet due to those strips but now that i have removed them everything is OK.

June 2021 Update

 

On 21/05/2021 at 08:57, Papez said:

 

Airbox 

So I think that thas part doesn't need improvement. 

 

After have done some adjustments and an ECU reset i drove my Felicia on the highway (90% and the other 10% was in normal traffic) today at noon to see the results especially at high rpm.

At low-medium rpm i have tested it many times and i was happy with the stock situation.

 

On 20/05/2021 at 20:42, Thefeliciahacker said:

Given that I enjoy this flexibility and low end torque I would NOT modify intake on the felly.

If my goals were more high rpm oriented (which they can NOT be on stock internals as the engine would most likely be limited by valve float) I would look at increasing intake air volume.

 

The results were very pleasant for me, first i saw with 4h at 3000 prm to have 100 Km on the speedometer, i saw120 km on the 3500 and 140 at 5500 rpm

with 5th i saw my Trusty a little bit better bypassing other cars but i didn't push it over 140 km due to the fear of traffic police.

Nevertheless with 5th was better from the previous situation with extra air to the airbox.

 

I was anxious for the fuel consumption but the pump showed 4,4 litres for 82,3 km which means at 100 Km i have 5,34 litres

which means more powerful car on the road with less consumption than before !

 

 

Keep in mind that i have an ECU-chipped, full exhaust system and BMC filter plus some weight more from insulation (whole car) and bigger tyres/rims.

Those results are amazing from my Trusty, i couldn't achieve them without your advises, thank you guys.