I just bought a second hand 2011 Suberb 1.8 TSI with 190K kilometers on the clock.  It was a trade in and the dealer was selling it for half book so I knew to look for problems.  I have some history, but in short the garage they took it to replaced the plugs, two coils, the lower oil pressure sensor, flushed the oil and filled with 15-w40.   They wrote on their report that it might need a new engine.

 

Basically, after doing my own checks I bought it cleared the codes and started driving home about 1 hour 30 minutes, half city half highway.  During the drive I got the following codes:

 

P164D Reduced Oil Pressure Switch: malfunction

P0341 Camshaft Pos. Sensor Circ. : range/Performance

 

Freeze frame data showed the first code 49 times and second one 68 times.  Oil pressure warning on the dash went on and off intermittently mostly while in traffic.  Had some other similar related codes in the freeze frames but only in the single digits.

 

When I checked channel 93 it showed 93-3 Phase Position Bank 1 Intake at +11.73 degrees.  I understand that spec is +/-5 degrees.  That pretty much verifies to me that the chains are loose as all heck.  I'm actually surprised the cam hasn't jumped and blown up the engine.

 

Logically it seems pretty straight forward to me that the codes are related to the loose chain.  Mostly I just want to verify my conclusions with people who are familiar with this engine and it's problems before and I start pulling the engine apart to put in the new tensioner and timing set.

Low or no oil pressure will mean the hydraulic chain tensioners are not held tight and the cam phasers unable to operate correctly.

 

I would be checking the oil pickup, oil pump and the pump chain drive. Checking the 2 timing chains and 2 tensioners would be next.

 

Edited 22 June, 20214 yr by xman

Is there a place I can check the pressure directly?

1 hour ago, xman said:

Low or no oil pressure will mean the hydraulic chain tensioners are not held tight and the cam phasers unable to operate correctly.

 

I would be checking the oil pickup, oil pump and the pump chain drive. Checking the 2 timing chains and 2 tensioners would be next.

 

 

Doesn't the chain tensioner in this model have a lock out that keeps it from retracting at all once it's extended to a certain point?

The locking ratchet retaining mechanism fails, so then relies on oil pressure 

 

1 hour ago, xman said:

The locking ratchet retaining mechanism fails, so then relies on oil pressure 

 

Well if the racheting mechanism failed than that's the source of the problem, not the oil pressure.  However the cam phase adjustment is stable at 11.73 degrees, I watched it for awhile and didn't see it change.  Also, idled the engine for 27 minutes before the first code popped up.  I'd think if oil pressure was the root problem the warning wouldn't be intermittant and it would occur allot more than 48 times in a 1 hour 30 minutes drive.

This may be of interest

https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/oil-pressure-light-after-switching-to-revised-oil-filter-housing-adapter.9253937/

So I also ran across this post regarding the oil filter post being a problem.  Not sure if it's relevant since it's a 1.8 TFSI and these engines seem to have different oil cooler / return designs depending which vehicle they're installed in.

 

So here's an update.  I found channel 159 which has the status of the two oil pressure sensors.  For those who don't know, there are two switches mounted on the housing right below the oil filter, the low pressure switch and high pressure switch.  LP switch is closed  ( 1 ) when the oil pressure is above the low pressure threshold.  HP switch is closed ( 1 ) when oil pressure is above the high pressure threshold. 

 

It doesn't look like the dealer's garage changed the oil filter after doing the engine flush, new filter isn't listed on the bill of goods and the filter doesn't look new, they just changed the oil to 15-w40.  Also from a service a few months ago it says they need to order a new electric oil valve... Don't know why or if they ever did replace it.  Not sure if the one in the link is the same as the one on my engine.  Lot's of variations...

 

So from a cold start at 20*C both switches close during starting.  Then just the LP switch is closed till the oil temperature reaches about 78*C.  Then the LP switch starts opening and closing.  Around 82*C it's staying mostly open.  If I slowly bring the RPMs above 1000 the LP switch closes.  Once the temps get into the 90's I have to get above 3500 rpm to close the HP switch.   Was able to trigger the P164B and the cam shaft phase errors.

 

So there is definitely an oil pressure problem.  Seems to be in it's early stages though and still moderate, like slightly below spec would be my guess although wouldn't know exactly unless I hook up a gauge.

 

So the big question here is what is the root cause... I found this: 1.8t Oil Pressure Survival Guide: Oil Pressure Warning Light diagnosis and troubleshooting.  It's an earlier version of the engine, but looks worth reading nonetheless.  Going to read it now and see if it gives me any ideas.  Also ran across this video which seems to blame the bad tensioner for low oil pressure since the oil pump chain is run off the same sproket as the timing chain.  Lot's of directions to look at and need to find a methodical approach to this...

 

 

Forgot to put in the link for the video: 

 

Electric oil valve may refer to the control valve for the cam adjusters, might explain the out of spec angle.

On 23/06/2021 at 14:13, xman said:

Electric oil valve may refer to the control valve for the cam adjusters, might explain the out of spec angle.

Is this Camshaft Control Valve what you're talking about:  electromagnetic camshaft timing valve, intended for vehicles with 1.8TSI 112kW/118kW (BZB, CDAA, CDAB), 2.0TSI 147kW (CCZA) engines

 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ymNRrD9WJr4

So I changed the VVT Solenoid to no effect.  Still same problem, showing +13.13 degrees Camshaft Phase Adjustment, 38 degrees, shows Cam Adjustment Test System OK.  Same problem with oil pressure dropping below spec at hot idle ( +80*C / 176*F ), but being OK once I raise the RPMs to 1000 or above.

@SailorBob74133, why don't you change the chain (or have it changed)? It's obviously lengthened. The oil pressure is not your problem, a worn chain is! Keeping driving with this worn chain will likely destroy your engines (ones it jumps a few teeth).

2 hours ago, andrehj said:

@SailorBob74133, why don't you change the chain (or have it changed)? It's obviously lengthened. The oil pressure is not your problem, a worn chain is! Keeping driving with this worn chain will likely destroy your engines (ones it jumps a few teeth).

 

Or is it the other way round? - is the underlying issue oil pressure?  The chain tensioner relies on oil pressure.

 

 

I finally got around to popping open this can of worms and I'll just let the pictures speak for themselves.  Basically, the exhaust balance shaft seized, but the engine apparently didn't notice and simply ripped the teeth off and shattered the balance guides.  Additionally, the camshaft timing marks line up perfectly and measure a near perfect 124mm apart with the intake measuring 65mm.  However looking at the crank the colored link is one tooth off.  Looking at the tensioner it's only four notches past the end with plenty of tension, so I'm guessing that whoever changed the chain probably a few years ago didn't time it right.  That the +13* cam phase...  The sprokets on the intake balance shaft look pretty chewed up too...

 

Haven't pulled off the cam bridge yet to inspect it...

 

I'd like to point out that miraculously this engine runs relatively well all things considered.  I drove it about 100 kilometers after buying it at a used car dealer who claimed it was all in perfect working condition, but sold it at half book value...

 

Once I've got this all fixed I'll recheck the oil pressure issue and maybe replace the cam bridge, it that doesn't work I'll look at the intake camshaft bearings...

 

 

I have bought many a car that has been moved on cheap and which ran sort of OK but just lacked a tiny bit of sparkle, hard even to say it was underperforming.

 

They all had had recent cam belt or timing chain changes and were all one tooth out, having tried the belt in both positions they usually looked closer to the correct timing mark when it was one tooth out so I could see how the error was made, I always go back to first principles as a backup check,  when the valves are rocking on cylinder 4 with the cam lobes equally spaced either side of the valves then the engine should be at TDC firing stroke on number 1 cylinder

You think I should just replace all the timing chains and guides in the this situation?  I was considering just replacing the balance chain and guides, in addition to the two balance shafts of course...