octavia 2018 1.4 vs 2021 1.5

[Yoyosmn]

Hello my friends!!!

I had the octavia 2018 for 3 years (1.4)

Now I have the octavia 2021 1.5 L

Maybe I'm imagining, but is it possible that the 1.4 is stronger than the 1.5?

Or because the 1.5 is Quieter and Less strenuous - Its make this feeling ?

Thank you 

 

[Ootohere]

The 1.4TSI / tfsi was a beaut, with or without ACT/COD but then the emissions meant it must die unless it was to be used with a hybrid, there was to be no more 'implausible' test results.

So now the 1.5TSI's are running engine management that means that the WLTP or RDE2 results can be replicated if ever they are tested at a country like the UK on importation.

 

Australia / USA and other get 1.4 TSI's still and an 8 speed torque converter auto, because that is 'simply clever' or Vorsprung Durch Technik.

[just music]

I went from a 2015 1.4 to a 2018 1.5 and now a 2021 1.5.

The performance of the older 1.4 and 1.5 were similar but the 1.5 was quieter. The 2018 1.5 kangarooed horribly at low speeds - the 2021 does not and is generally very smooth.

However, the newer one is definitely higher geared, so it needs more shift downs to keep in the torque band - this makes it feel less powerful in day to day use: floor it in 3rd on a motorway slip and it's very brisk but try to increase from 50-70 in top and it's now sluggish whereas the previous cars just pulled away.  This is because it's now running at <2k rpm at 70mph in 6th. I think the previous cars were closer to 2.5-3k at the same speed, but I can't really remember. 

 

I would say that the 1.4 was the better all-rounder engine, and linked with the 30-40 mile electric motor and an auto box seems like it would be a great combination.

 

Edited 27 June, 2021 by just music

[SiWaiting]

On 27/06/2021 at 10:06, just music said:

I went from a 2015 1.4 to a 2018 1.5 and now a 2021 1.5.

The performance of the older 1.4 and 1.5 were similar but the 1.5 was quieter. The 2018 1.5 kangarooed horribly at low speeds - the 2021 does not and is generally very smooth.

However, the newer one is definitely higher geared, so it needs more shift downs to keep in the torque band - this makes it feel less powerful in day to day use: floor it in 3rd on a motorway slip and it's very brisk but try to increase from 50-70 in top and it's now sluggish whereas the previous cars just pulled away.  This is because it's now running at <2k rpm at 70mph in 6th. I think the previous cars were closer to 2.5-3k at the same speed, but I can't really remember. 

 

I would say that the 1.4 was the better all-rounder engine, and linked with the 30-40 mile electric motor and an auto box seems like it would be a great combination.

 

 

Driving my new car (1.5 TSI non-electric manual) home after picking it up from the dealer I thought there must be something seriously wrong with the engine as it felt like forever to increase the speed from 100 to 110 km/h while in 6th gear compared to my old car. My old car had the 1.4 TSI (103 KW) engine with the MQ250-6F gearbox and I rarely needed to downshift from 6th gear before overtaking a car.

 

Reading this thread has eased my worries a lot. Sounds like what I experience is "normal" and that I have to get used to using the gear stick alot more.

 

Reading in the owner's manual that the maximum speed (231 km/h) was achieved in 5th gear (not 6th! ) and comparing the gearbox ratios between my old car and new car did relax me a bit more:

                     

      MQ250-6F   Skoda 1.5 TSI (what's the name of the gearbox?)

I     3.778            3.750

II    2.118            2.100

III   1.360            1.276

IV   1.029            0.878

V    0.857            0.674

VI   0.733            0.510

 

6th gear in the old car has a higher numeric ratio than 5th gear in the new car!?

 

Anyone else with the manual gearbox and the 1.5 or the 1.0 that has experienced the need to downshift to 4th gear to facilitate faster (and safer) overtaking at high speed?

 

[Skodamias]

@SiWaiting

 

I feel the same. I have a similar situation, coming from a 1.4 tsi manual to a 1.5 manual. My previous car did react to gas pedal on 6th gear at 80 km/h but this one does nothing. So i just accelerate on smaller gears and also downshift more often when passing. The new gearbox must be a big player here but also the 1.5 tsi feels bit less powerful. I've been told that the new 1.5 comes with some emission reducing tech (like GPF), which affects the engine power.

 

Looking at the chart, i think there must be something else different between the old car and new car, since for example,  with the old car on second gear i often accelerated to about 80 km/h but with new car i get pretty close to max rpm before 80 km/h so i upshift earlier. So maybe there's a difference in final drive or something? The new gearbox MQ281 is "based on a 2.5 shaft concept". I wonder what that means?

[SiWaiting]

Thanks for the feedback @Skodamias! Good to know I'm not the only one experiencing this.

 

I agree, it feels less powerful eventhough it's got more hp (150 vs 140) and more kW (110 vs 103). In the old car (1.4 TSI), changing from eco mode to sport mode had a noticeable effect. The car reacted quicker and accelerated faster in sport mode, it certainly became even more fun to drive. In the new car (1.5 TSI) switching to sport mode I can't say that the acceleration improves in 4th, 5th and 6th gear. I believe I can feel a difference but only in gear 1-3.

5th gear seems a bit pointless now in my opinion. I'll probably completely skip it and jump from 4th to 6th.

It's near impossible to find a Skoda Octavia 1.5 TSI manual to test drive in Sweden. The closest I found was a 1.0 TSI DSG (and I visited alot of dealers)! It seems like every dealer goes for a demo car with an automatic gearbox and an engine with some kind of electric input. I wasn't too bothered though since I thought I knew what I was getting. I felt confident that the engine at least would be as powerful as the engine in my old car and that the gearbox would feel about the same. Oh boy was I wrong.

I mean the car works fine but I'm very surprised given what I expected and I kind of feel a bit fooled. However the most important thing is that this is "normal", ie nothing's wrong with my car.

 

The 1.4 TSI is a great engine (hmmm....I wonder if I should move to Australia). Too bad VAGs chase for lower emissions has made its younger sibling a bit bland.

 

8 hours ago, Skodamias said:

The new gearbox MQ281 is "based on a 2.5 shaft concept". I wonder what that means?

I have no idea.

[Skodamias]

With manual gearbox i think the sport mode just makes the gas pedal more responsive. My previous car (octavia 3) had the same 110 kW. I don't feel that i'm missing much power. I just had to adjust the way i drive little bit, downshifting more often. Also i think the new car is much nicer to drive in traffic and at slow speed. It has nice torque on low RPM. On a level road 5th gear works nicely at 50 km/h and it gives good fuel economy. I use 5th gear on country roads (50 - 80 km/h) and leave the 6th for the highways.   

[Gerrycan]

The 1.4tsi Octavia available in Australia is not available with the manual box and the auto is an Aisin torque converter which I am not keen on.

 

However a few weeks ago I went in the local dealer while servicing on my old mk3 1.4tsi and saw a white manual 1.5tsi Scala which I was very tempted to put a deposit on there and then.

A modicum of common sense (maybe a fear of wife?) prevailed and I attempted to first arrange a test drive for us. A dsg Monte Carlo version available to test, which was really not going to be good enough, so the moment was lost, although not entirely abandoned.

I presume the Scala has the same ratios as the Octavia 4 so it interesting to read of such differing characteristics between 1.4tsi and 1.5tsi.

My opinion of the 1.4tsi is that it is a really good flexible engine which pulls from low revs but still happily revs up to the red line. Great performance and economy.

At 70mph in 6th gear it is revving at 2700rpm and it is quite possible to accelerate up relatively steep long hills without changing down, although I usually display a little mechanical sympathy and change down to 5th. I believe the 7 speed dsg box is geared to 2500rpm for the 1.4tsi.

I did feel the gearing could have been lower in 6th for at least a reduction to 2200rpm.

 

I'm confident both engines deliver the same specified power and torque but there may be a little more at play than just the gearing affecting the apparent lower performance of the 1.5tsi.

The new engine has ACT and a different type of turbo (variable) and the emphasis of the new engine is lower consumption and emissions which quite honestly seems to have been a problem for VW to meet with good driving characteristics.

I believe the eco ACT cuts in above 1400rpm and below 30% max torque so if you press the accelerator it is quite possible the 1.5tsi throttle mapping is less sensitive to allow some acceleration and still run more economically on two cylinders. That is purely speculation of course.

I'm sure that using a bit more welly with 1.5tsi in the appropriate gear will get things moving for easy overtaking.

 

Having read this thread I am keen to again get a manual Scala test drive arranged for us.

 

I have only once driven a long geared manual and that was a diesel Kia C'eed we hired on a UK visit about 4 years ago.

We did a LOT of motorway driving and I was pleased with the initial 60mpg returns on refills but when I twigged how long the gearing was and that the diesel had a sudden torque hole at lower revs I changed my style and the last two tanks gave actuals of 70mpg. 

I did this by ignoring the displays gear advice and not loading the engine using to low a gear, so had to be doing over 60mph for 6th, over 50mph for 5th, over 40mph for 4th and so on. A lot more gear changing, slightly higher revs but still on small throttle settings and things were much happier.

Would be interesting to see if the 1.5tsi manual responds similarly.

Trouble is my wife is a bit more of a lead foot than I am and likes the 1.4tsi characteristics so that's why the test drive is important.

Very few Australian women are happy to drive manuals so she is still a 'keeper' whatever she decides  

[johh]

I also switched from the old 1.4 TSI to the new 1.5 TSI, both with manual.
I agree that the 103kw 1.4 TSI was a really good all-round engine. I've noticed that with the 1.5TSI I often downshift from 6th to 4th when overtaking at highway speeds. Don't remember doing that with the 1.4.

One thing I'd like to add after driving the 1.5 for over 25 th km is that I'm amazed at how much better the fuel economy is. Was thinking it'd be about the same, but it's significantly better than the 1.4. Real happy with that.
 

[SiWaiting]

On 03/09/2021 at 11:15, johh said:

One thing I'd like to add after driving the 1.5 for over 25 th km is that I'm amazed at how much better the fuel economy is. Was thinking it'd be about the same, but it's significantly better than the 1.4. Real happy with that.
 

I completely agree. On a full tank of fuel (45 l), drove (in very windy conditions (head/side wind), Eco mode but plenty of overtaking, 17" nordic winter tyres Goodyear 2,5 bar in each) 350 km + some city driving + another 350 km. Now the car shows two remaining white stripes on the fuel gauge and it estimates that another 170 km can be driven. I'm very impressed! 😊

 

I've done the same trip several times before with the old 1.4 TSI and I would never leave for the second stint ("another 350 km") before filling up the tank. Not that the tank was close to being empty but because the fuel gauge would show less than half remaining.

Edited 12 November, 2022 by SiWaiting
correction

[Gerrycan]

23 hours ago, SiWaiting said:

I completely agree. On a full tank of fuel (45 l), drove (in very windy conditions (head/side wind), Eco mode but plenty of overtaking, 17" nordic winter tyres Goodyear 2,5 bar in each) 350 km + some city driving + another 350 km. Now the car shows two remaining white stripes on the fuel gauge and it estimates that another 170 km can be driven. I'm very impressed! 😊

 

I've done the same trip several times before with the old 1.4 TSI and I would never leave for the second stint ("another 350 km") before filling up the tank. Not that the tank was close to being empty but because the fuel gauge would show less than half remaining.

I would expect the 1.5tsi to be more economical of the two and the figures are really good in the conditions you describe, but I'd be very disappointed if my 2014 1.4tsi got as bad economy returns as you related for yours. The mk3 does have a larger 50 litre tank and I'd be confident of easily completing a roundtrip of 700km, and probably showing 150+km to empty.

I've never actually achieved a full 1000km on a tank with this car as I chickened out at 850km (showing 160km range left) knowing there was no fuel station for the next 120km of hilly terrain and the car was weighed down with 4 adults and luggage.

[SiWaiting]

3 hours ago, Gerrycan said:

 50 litre tank and I'd be confident of easily completing a roundtrip of 700km, and probably showing 150+km to empty.

I've never actually achieved a full 1000km on a tank with this car as I chickened out at 850km (showing 160km range left)

Great numbers @Gerrycan! 😲 Sounds like you'd easily reach 1000km once you get a mk4 1.5 TSI. I could only dream of getting 700+km in my 2013 Seat Leon FR 1.4 TSI (50 l, 140 bhp, no ACT, man). That car was a bit too fun to push and I've always had a heavy right foot 😇. So, to me, the numbers I'm getting from the Octavia mk4 are amazing.