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Relay Attack - mitigating the risk

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I’m a big fan of convenience and I don’t ‘always fear the worst’ will happen so I’m not really keen on a steering wheel lock (inconvenient and ugly) or even a faraday pouch (although I could probably live with the pouch if it’s really necessary). 
 

But, I’m even less keen on my 2020 (70 plate - registered in Oct 2020) Kodiaq Sportline getting nicked. Reading up on the matter, it would seem that sometime in 2019/20 Skoda started using motion sensor key fobs. See this which article. So, does mine have it? And, if so, is that ‘job-done.’ Am I safe from relay attacks? (I mean reasonably safe, I know safety/security can never be 100% guaranteed - that’s one of the reasons we have insurance). 

Just buy a faraday pouch, job done. 
You can get a pack of 2 from Amazon for around £7

Zac da man of this parish reckons that VAG began fitting motion sensor quite a while ago when I asked a similar question, however, I don't know if they've filtered through to Skoda yet.

My question was in relation to a 10 month old Golf we've recently bought for my wife and I've tried several times to find out from VW dealers, VW chat helpline and Honest John whether the Golf fob has motion sensors. 

I could not find anyone that could give me a straight answer or to phone me back with one, so in the end I gave up and bought her a Faraday the same as I use for my Kodiaq. It's no trouble to use when I go into the house and when leaving the car unattended away from home, I make sure I disable Kessy before I walk away from the car.

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I do get that faraday pouches are cheap and easy, it’s just another thing you have to remember (same as the disabling kessy). If I can confirm I have a motion sensor key fob I needn’t take any of that other action. 
 

I’ll have to test it. Presumably if I leave the key in range of the Kodiaq motionless for 5 or 10mins and then try to open a door, I won’t be able to open the door (if my key fob is a motion sensor key fob). 

Your car should have this - I believe it was from MY20 onwards. I think it may take 15 minutes for the key to go to sleep - it's worth testing this though, as you say. 

Without all of the facts to hand, I'm going to speculate here.

A new key fob has a motion sensor that takes 5/10/15  to immobilise the fob ? You arrive home at night, park on the drive, go into your house and lay your fob down and in the minutes that the fob takes to immobilise, the two thieves that were parked across the street run up your drive with their remote signal reader and have it away with your car. Don't think a scenario such as this can't happen, thieves are brazen and are willing to take chances.

Secondly, you park in a busy car park. lock the car and walk away. I assume that because the fob is in your pocket and is constantly in motion  it won't be disabled. Now I don't know if this is possible, but a couple of bays down from where you parked, there's the same two thieves who nicked your last car from your driveway. They get out of their car, one points his signal reader at you and your fob and the other one goes to your car and opens the door and starts the car. Maybe this can't be done or is very unlikely, but having been the victim of car theft, I know how fast a professional thief can take your car.

 

With these possible scenarios in mind, our keys go into a Faraday bay in the house and I always disable Kessy both at home and when in public places. As rightly stated in the OP, if a thief wants what you've got badly enough, they'll have it, but I see it as my job to make it as difficult as possible for them.

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Olderman1 - I really respect that viewpoint, I completely understand it. It's maximising security. I recognise that my appetite for risk is greater than many people (my appetite for convenience wins out at the moment). My threshold is to guard against the most likely risks, I'm happy to leave the unlikely to chance. Perhaps I will live to regret it and you will get to say 'I told you so'? 

 

I've done the test see video here . I left the key perched on the wing mirror for 5mins and then tried to open the doors/boot, they wouldn't open.

 

If I had the time, I'd test it at 2mins, 1min etc to see how long it takes. I'm satisfied that it removes the risk of a relay attack in the dead of night from my driveway (the most likely scenario). I agree that it is not a 100% fix, as Olderman1 says, there's still a window of opportunity for thieves to exploit. Thatcham tests showed that it only takes 10 seconds to steal some cars (Skoda Kodiaq included). I may get a faraday tin/pot/pouch for home (it's very little extra effort to drop keys in a tin instead of hanging them on the current hook we use) but I don't want to carry one around whilst out, that removes the convenience of kessy for me (I love that I can open the car despite the keys being somewhere at the bottom of my bag). It feels like the risk is managed enough by the motion sensor for my own personal appetite for risk (personal appetite affected by the street I live, on, car crime rates etc etc).

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Perhaps I will live to regret it and you will get to say 'I told you so'

It would be tempting, but I'd try to refrain. :)

We're all different and you seem well aware of the possibilities, I just hate the thought of some oik stealing what I/we've worked hard to attain. I was  interested to find out if the immobiliser is present and if/how it works. Knowing that it's present in your fob tells me that it's also present in my wifes, although she doesn't have full Kessy, only keyless start.

 

I don't take my Faraday bag out with me, even for me that's a step too far.

MK–83 - did you try putting the fob on the wing mirror and not waiting at all, before trying the door?

 

Mine releases the door only if the keys are fairly near the handle (nearer than the wing mirror).

In an official document about MY20 changes to the Skoda range they say they have put motion sensors in all KESSY keys. They never said anything specific about timing etc, so that's up to user evaluation really...

 

Remember that you can disable KESSY by locking the car with the button on the key fob, then pressing the lock button on the car door handle within 5 seconds

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45 minutes ago, DaveMiller said:

MK–83 - did you try putting the fob on the wing mirror and not waiting at all, before trying the door?

 

Mine releases the door only if the keys are fairly near the handle (nearer than the wing mirror).

 Yes, with the key rested on the passenger side door mirror I can open the front and rear door on that side of the car. Not the boot and not the doors on the drivers side of the car. 

5 hours ago, mk_83 said:

 Yes, with the key rested on the passenger side door mirror I can open the front and rear door on that side of the car. Not the boot and not the doors on the drivers side of the car. 

Slightly OT but from when did keyless entry include the rear doors?

Is that just on the Kodiaq?

 

30 minutes ago, john999boy said:

Slightly OT but from when did keyless entry include the rear doors?

Is that just on the Kodiaq?

 

MY21 I think. But you can get a set of handles and cables for 60 quid on Ali express if you want to retrofit 😁

  • 2 weeks later...
On 05/07/2021 at 12:02, ZacDaMan72 said:

In an official document about MY20 changes to the Skoda range they say they have put motion sensors in all KESSY keys. They never said anything specific about timing etc, so that's up to user evaluation really...

 

Remember that you can disable KESSY by locking the car with the button on the key fob, then pressing the lock button on the car door handle within 5 seconds

I have just bought 2020 Plate Se L and had worries about this - can confirm the disable option is dead easy and peace of mind. This gives an idea regardless of model - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qZIB6Kf3_s&t=9s

Yes it’s something I coded for the person who wanted my Superb (but then messed me about and didn’t view it):

 

Disable KESSY door locking / unlocking

 

05: Acc/Start Auth.

Coding

Byte1

Tick Bit0

Passive entry driver door handle, not activated

 

Passive entry frt.pass door handle,not activated

 

 

I tried mine in a similar way to mk-83. Door opened at 4 mins, didn’t at 5 mins then moved key slightly and  door opened.

I am a very recent buyer (1 week) ... posted somewhere on forum about this and cannot find it ... However, had serious worriess. BUT, had a chance to play with this at the weekend. I gave my son the key fob and got him to stand 10ft from the Kodiak ... no joy on Kessy, 5ft no joy, he was practically in my pocket by the handle when it allowed locking / unlocking. So, for me a simple test - got to be close (Yes, must be simple thief hacks with big loops, etc to steal signal inside house, etc).

 

But, actually I prefer the lock with remote and quick touch to the handle - KESSY disabled - so simple. I'm fairly boring, so not for everyone, but this works fine for me. I wasn't bothered about KESSY, it just came with the car ... glad I can easily just disable it within my routine

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