Key or Ignition Issue - Felicia

[Dogswards]

Hello.

 

So I recently ran into an issue with my Skoda Felicia. Apologies if I explain something poorly, I don't know much about cars (the Felicia is my way of trying to learn).

 

We purchased the car recently, and it came with 2 keys. One with a remote and one without. When the car was handed to us, it was started using the Key with a remote. We used that key for a few days and all was well, apart from the remote being either low or out of batteries which we didn't care about. A few days later we started having trouble with starting the car: the key would turn, dashboard lights would come on, but the car wouldn't start. I saw on this forum that it was a somewhat common issue, so I went with the easiest fix I could come up with first, which was checking the Fuse Box. I wiggled the fuse in place and now the car started fine with the spare key (the one without the remote).

 

All was well, until we lost the spare key . Now we only have the remote one left. When I try to start the car with this key, nothing happens, which is rather odd. Before, the dashboard lights would come on, but now they don't. Absolutely nothing happens. Engine doesn't turn over, no lights come on.

 

What I've tried to do ever since losing the key:

 

- Wiggle the fuse/switch it out

- wd40 on the key

- Clean up the key

- Removed the steering column and tried to wiggle the ignition barrel

 

What I haven't tried yet:

 

- Make a key copy - since the current key doesn't work, I am unsure if making a copy would be of any benefit

- Get a whole new key made - since the problem might be with the ignition cylinder itself, not sure if it's a good move.

- Get the ignition cylinder replaced - hard to do without being able to drive the car to the shop.

 

Anyone has any ideas? The car is a Skoda Felicia 1.3 Carburetor.

[Dogswards]

As per suggestions in a similar topic in this forum, I checked the starter connections (yellow wire), and they are good. I also made sure it wasn't the wheel lock.

 

Could it just be that the key is out of battery? If so, I'm gonna feel real stupid.

[Thefeliciahacker]

Check the immobiliser chip maybe it fell out of place

[Dogswards]

4 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Check the immobiliser chip maybe it fell out of place

 

Ok, so checking previous threads, I found this image pointing out the immobiliser chip:

 

 

However, my key seems to be a bit different. It has no LED and I cant see a way to open it up (it seems like a solid bit of plastic).

 

I have attached two photos here of what the key looks like:

 

I've switched out the battery on the FOB and it's had no change. The FOB LED doesn't come on and nothing in the car responds to it.

[Thefeliciahacker]

Well I said the key not the remote. 

Check by switching the immobiliser chips between keys if one starts working then you know your issue 

[Dogswards]

53 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Well I said the key not the remote. 

Check by switching the immobiliser chips between keys if one starts working then you know your issue 

 

I only have one key, the one seen in the 2 photos by the remote.

 

Sorry if this is obvious, but how do I open the key up? The seam is barely visible and it has no screws, it seems pretty solid. Attempts to pry it open along the seam have only lead to a finger cut.

 

Should point out that with the key in the ignition and turned onto the "on" position, I still cant use any lights, radio or anything. It's like the key isn't there.

[KenONeill]

20 minutes ago, Dogswards said:

Should point out that with the key in the ignition and turned onto the "on" position, I still cant use any lights, radio or anything. It's like the key isn't there.

I wonder, are we addressing the correct problem in the key? This describes like an ignition switch failure.

[Dogswards]

20 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I wonder, are we addressing the correct problem in the key? This describes like an ignition switch failure.

 

I figured that could have been an issue as I saw it in the "common issues" thread and read that the connections can get corroded, so I followed the procedure there to take it out.

 

However, based on my absolutely worthless opinion, the whole thing looks pretty great. There is a lot of play in the keywell but the connectors look great and nothing strikes me as broken:

 

 

 

I'll keep taking it apart and see if I can find something suspicious, but so far it doesn't seem like the issue.

 

[Dogswards]

Following up on the previous images, I finished taking it apart and could find nothing suspect. Turning the key while in the keywell makes the white part make a clicking sound, as I imagine it is supposed to. I cleaned everything up, reattached it as it was previously after making sure the connections were good and it still does not work. I attached a photo of the connected ignition switch in case something there is a clear bad sign for someone else:

 

 

 

[KenONeill]

2 hours ago, Dogswards said:

the "common issues" thread

Ironic that; the common point between the accessory, ignition and start positions is that all 3 use the same supply to the ignition.

[Dogswards]

17 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Ironic that; the common point between the accessory, ignition and start positions is that all 3 use the same supply to the ignition.

 

Sorry Ken, but as I said this is really my first time doing any sort of work on a car and I don't have much experience with electrical besides patching some random wires, so I'm not sure I understand.

 

Are you saying that all the issues I have match up with a specific wire that supplies power to the ignition? If so, which of the wires is it? I am buying a multimeter tomorrow and I was thinking I'd check the battery and the power supply to the starter to see if I can narrow it down to the ignition, but I was really hoping it wouldn't be a wiring problem... Would I be able to use the multimeter to check if the wire end connectors have power on them? Someone has worked on the electrical system of the car before i bought it and it's a real rats nest.

[KenONeill]

11 hours ago, Dogswards said:

 

Sorry Ken, but as I said this is really my first time doing any sort of work on a car and I don't have much experience with electrical besides patching some random wires, so I'm not sure I understand.

 

Are you saying that all the issues I have match up with a specific wire that supplies power to the ignition? If so, which of the wires is it? I am buying a multimeter tomorrow and I was thinking I'd check the battery and the power supply to the starter to see if I can narrow it down to the ignition, but I was really hoping it wouldn't be a wiring problem... Would I be able to use the multimeter to check if the wire end connectors have power on them? Someone has worked on the electrical system of the car before i bought it and it's a real rats nest.

OK. You realise that the ignition switch is a key operated multi-position switch (off, accessories on (eg radio), ignition on (alternator and oil pressure lights on if engine not running) and a spring-loaded starter on position (starter motor runs while key held in this position). As I understand you, you have no power/function on any of the switched circuits and that pretty much has to be a failure in the ignition switch (not the key barrel, the actual switch), the live feed (usually the centre electrode), or a totally flat battery!

[Dogswards]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

OK. You realise that the ignition switch is a key operated multi-position switch (off, accessories on (eg radio), ignition on (alternator and oil pressure lights on if engine not running) and a spring-loaded starter on position (starter motor runs while key held in this position). As I understand you, you have no power/function on any of the switched circuits and that pretty much has to be a failure in the ignition switch (not the key barrel, the actual switch), the live feed (usually the centre electrode), or a totally flat battery!

 

Hello Ken

 

Thank you very much. That explanation helped me a lot. I actually had no idea that's how ignition switches worked.

 

Going in through the possible issues you mentioned:

 

I don't really know how to read these, and I haven't found an ignition wiring schematic for my specific model (I just put it back the same way I had found it), but looking at this:

 

 

And at the schematics for other similar models (diesel and pickup), it seems like the red wire is the one coming straight from the battery. The red one is also centered like you said, so it seems like a fair guess that that's the live one. I'll check it with a multimeter later today and see if it has power.

I already tried to charge the battery with the help of another car with no effect, so if the red wire is carrying power I'll buy an ignition switch and replace it.

 

I'll report back with the result.

 

[RicardoM]

It is safe to buy a new ignition switch and replace the old one. The only inconvenience will be that you'll have 2 keys instead of one for all doors and ignition. The new ignition switch will come with its new key.

As for the key chip for the immobilizer, I sadly inform you that Felicia with carburetor has no immobilizer.

[KenONeill]

11 hours ago, RicardoM said:

It is safe to buy a new ignition switch and replace the old one. The only inconvenience will be that you'll have 2 keys instead of one for all doors and ignition. The new ignition switch will come with its new key.

Also @Dogswards - Go to a Skoda dealer and ask the Parts Department to order a new ignition switch for Skoda Felicia $chassis_number, and they should supply one with the correct key barrel for your existing key(s).

[RicardoM]

3 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Also @Dogswards - Go to a Skoda dealer and ask the Parts Department to order a new ignition switch for Skoda Felicia $chassis_number, and they should supply one with the correct key barrel for your existing key(s).

I think he will have to sell a kidney to be able to buy it from a dealer/stealer.

[Dogswards]

Ok, so quick update.

 

With the multimeter I got yesterday, I tested the car battery and it's fully dead. I'll try charging it one more time and if it doesn't work Ill put in a new one. However, I already have the ignition switch exposed and I was having key problems anyways so I ordered a TOPRAN ignition switch and I'll replace the one in the car. Hopefully fixing the battery and the switch resolves all my issues.

 

Thank you for all your input and helpful advice!

[Thefeliciahacker]

so wait you were trying to start the car without a battery

[RicardoM]

13 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

so wait you were trying to start the car without a battery

Apparently with a dead battery. See below. I see that often.

On 17/07/2021 at 22:09, Dogswards said:

I don't know much about cars (the Felicia is my way of trying to learn).

 

[Dogswards]

20 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

so wait you were trying to start the car without a battery

 

I was trying to start it with a dead battery. Since I was already having ignition or key problems beforehand it never occurred to me that this could be a separate issue caused by the battery. Live and learn...

[Thefeliciahacker]

Haha well i got confused when you said about on key working the other not

[RicardoM]

@ThefeliciahackerOne of the first things we have to assess (often indirectly) is the knowledge level of those asking for help. What continues to amaze me is why people believe that electrical and electronics issues are as easy to tackle (as a DIYer) as let's say changing a flat tire...

[Dogswards]

9 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

@ThefeliciahackerOne of the first things we have to assess (often indirectly) is the knowledge level of those asking for help. What continues to amaze me is why people believe that electrical and electronics issues are as easy to tackle (as a DIYer) as let's say changing a flat tire...

 

I never thought it would be a particularly easy thing to do (hence me asking for help), and I surely wouldn't have been able to get the ignition switch out if it wasn't for the great guide on this forum. But you gotta start somewhere. If you never try to tackle an electrical or electronics issue, then you'll never learn.

 

 

[RicardoM]

5 minutes ago, Dogswards said:

If you never try to tackle an electrical or electronics issue, then you'll never learn.

Sadly, you need a lot of background and experience in those areas. I appreciate your will to learn, but unless you did electronics as hobby for years or graduated at least an electronics high school, the learning curve is very long. At best you will be able to do exactly what you're told in here if you master simple things as working with a multimeter and soldering properly.

[Dogswards]

Ok, so continuing on this topic (not sure if I should create a new topic for the new issue or not).

 

All attempts to charge the battery ended in failure, so I took out the old one and put in a new battery. With that, car turned on and there was no trial or error with the key, the new ignition switch just worked, so that's an improvement. The car doesn't stay on without the gas pedal being pressed, but that's a problem for another day (need to check the throttle body, the fuel pump and the sensors but since I'm waiting on getting a proper VAGCOM cable for it, it has to wait).

 

As soon as I plugged in the battery, the radiator fan came on and stayed on. That likely explains why the previous battery went flat. I read that in some cars this can be caused by a faulty relay, but I don't think that's a likely issue since I unplugged all relays and the connections look good. Next came checking the radiator:

 

First off, it was out of coolant, so I flushed the cooling system and the stuff in there was absolutely disgusting. Secondly, I read that this can be caused by a faulty Temperature Switch, I took it out and it doesn't look too bad but it's a cheap replacement anyways so I might as well put in a new one. Here is a photo of the existing one:

 

However, I think the likely issue is the cable that leads to the temperature switch. It looks pretty burnt out to my eyes:

 

What part should I get to replace it? I can see temperature switches on local part websites and skoda-parts, but I can't seem to find the cable that actually leads to it.

 

Here is also a photo of the inner part of the temperature switch. The stuff that was in the radiator was absolutely vile and left a coating of crud on the surface...