Is E10 much cheaper than E5 in the UK?

 

Here it is between 4 and 6 cents per litre cheaper. Which is barely anything really. But over the year it's still a saving.

 

32 minutes ago, Phil-E said:

Is E10 much cheaper than E5 in the UK?

 

Here it is between 4 and 6 cents per litre cheaper. Which is barely anything really. But over the year it's still a saving.

 

 

If you look at the thread above, you will see that we don't know what petrol we are getting. I don't think we know whether there will be a price difference, and probably won't know until October.

We should know by September what they are charging at different places for E10 95 ron or E5 97 or 99 ron in the UK.

 

By September or October or November we have not a clue where prices will reach for petrol or diesel at Supermarket Filling Stations or the Branded Big Boy places.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer / Treasury will want the price low as he has to be doing a Pre Budget or whatever just so they can have a false low inflation figure.

Edited 8 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

I think @Phil-E is referring to Germany where they have a choice of 95Ron e5 and 95Ron E10

 

https://travelinformation.eu/germany-fuel-prices/

 

We don't have a choice of 95 unleaded blends.

 

Ah ok! So that's how they're doing it. Here in Germany they have separate E5 and E10 pumps.

I cannot see any difference in the difference in the Excise Duty on E10 than E5 in the UK ie it is nearly exactly 58p a litre for use as road fuel.

 

Also difficult to see how much bio-ethanol is per litre but it looks around about the cost of crude oil created petrol after excise duty ie roughly around £1 a litre before VAT  and before delivery to the gas station.

 

In the US they seem to be able to produce bio-ethanol for more like $1 a litre.

 

So if a petrol supplier is allowed to supply "up to 10%" bio I suppose it will depend on the current price of oil ie high at the moment, and the price of bio, God knows , so the company will dog in up to 10% bio if it is cheaper to do so.

 

Shame we cannot find out info, say at the pump, just how much bio is in the EU. Could be 2,4,4,8 or 10% and we the users will not know what we are getting.  German idea of split pump sounds a good one.  Reminds me of when we could not get lead fuel, or "5 star" which was 100 octane if memory serves, ex-police Norton Commando with Dunstall tuning pack that wanted 5 star and lead, 0 to 90 in 9 seconds.

 

 Be also intersting to see horsepower figures.  I expect sales on Tescos Momentum to pick up quite a bit unless they do take a penny or two off E10.

 

If you want to see where this is all going European E15 fuel is the next step in a few years with even less MPG for petrol.  Talking to some of my colleagues from Brazil and they use E25 and the car companies already know how to work with this sort of fuel.  EVs will soon have greater range the Petrol ICE.

 

I have heard there is a another sort of engine an fuel ie compression ignition.  Really good CO2 figures.  Apparently the Germans are going back to using them.

 

Edited 8 August, 20214 yr by lol-lol

Don't forget that E5 and E10 means up-to 5% or 10%. There's no minimum required content. So you could buy E10 that only has 1% in.

 

From what I understand in a turbo car there is basically no difference in power between E5 and E10. There can be a greater effect on power and economy on naturally aspirated engines.

17 minutes ago, Phil-E said:

Don't forget that E5 and E10 means up-to 5% or 10%. There's no minimum required content. So you could buy E10 that only has 1% in.

 

From what I understand in a turbo car there is basically no difference in power between E5 and E10. There can be a greater effect on power and economy on naturally aspirated engines.

 

There are not many non-turbo cars here in the UK any more and they are being killed off by their poor fuel consumption and high road tax.

 

Mind you I have been looking at early MK 2 Caymans and the NA six cylinder does sound much nicer than the 4 cylinder turbo of course.

 

One expects the electronics on a turbo, especially linked with DSG/PDK systems, it would be barely perceptible, a good service would make a positive difference to compensate after starting to use E10.

 

Once Skoda gets production underway there will be Mk 4 Fabia with the option of a N/A engine. 

26 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

There are not many non-turbo cars here in the UK any more

 

Eh???

 

Not many new cars are NA granted but there are still lots being sold and also bear in mind that the average age of the uk car fleet is about 9 years and that means a large proportion of those will be NA.  And that's not forgetting all the older cars and classics.

 

And finally consider that only two years ago less than 40% of vehicles manufactured were turbocharged.

9 hours ago, skomaz said:

 

Eh???

 

Not many new cars are NA granted but there are still lots being sold and also bear in mind that the average age of the uk car fleet is about 9 years and that means a large proportion of those will be NA.  And that's not forgetting all the older cars and classics.

 

And finally consider that only two years ago less than 40% of vehicles manufactured were turbocharged.

 

Really ?

I would have thought most major manufacturers and models, like the focus, have not had NA models since around 2010. 

Do you have an official stats/link on that ?

 

It is not so important whether there is actually a vehicle sat on someone's drive that is NA but who is doing the bulk of mile, a general slow and dirty NA car or a cleaner, faster and more economical, thermally efficiently, turbocharged vehicle.

 

I had a 2.0 MX5 hardtop with retractable roof for a year or so I know how slow they are even compared to 1.4/1.5 turbo.  People kept coming up and asking to make hairdressing appointments to, what is that all about ?    

 

Arent most mazdas N/A? Vag 1.0 mpi is still available in the Fabia

 

Toyotas?

Edited 10 August, 20214 yr by xman

1 hour ago, xman said:

Arent most mazdas N/A? Vag 1.0 mpi is still available in the Fabia

 

Toyotas?

 

You only see part of the Mazda range in the UK or even in Europe as several of the Japanese manufacturers now regard Europe as the poor third of the World's car market.

 

In the States they have the CX9 which is a significant model and the 6 is already turbo over there were it is not here odd really, maybe due to California.

 

I expect Mazda find it difficult to deal with the extra costs turbos add compared to payback and they have quite down with advance combustion chamber design etc with their SkyActiv tech running higher compression than almost anybody else which is a good factor to engine efficiency.

 

The 1 lire MPI, like Dacia/Renaults SCE sell a few but all the mags say avoid if anything but a City car.  As Clarkson say for the UP that the accelerator is more of a switch of full on to full off the a throttle to partially use in the excellent episode in the Ukraine with the Fiesta and the Sandero.  

 

We will be seeing electric "turbo", really a supercharger, on more cars but which every type of turbo it is it looks the growth will continue even with more EVs being around.

https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/automotive-turbocharger-market?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI15vz-KOm8gIVDu3tCh1uhgYeEAAYASAAEgL7-vD_BwE

VW Up! are available with 1.0 TSI engines.  Now only TSI's or as a EV.

Jeremy Clarkson says many things.

Citigo never got the 1.0TSI in Europe, they did in South America and run on Ethanol. *They have a bigger fuel tank.**

 

Lots of Suzuki N/A vehicles in the UK,

many thousands even millions not that old, that is Suzuki who have a good reputation for small capacity turbo engines, so much so that VW bought into Suzuki to learn more from them because of their work with Fiat, Mazda & Mitsubishi on Turbo's, Twinchargers & Electric Superchargers.

 

I have a 2010 N/A Suzuki 1.6 Automatic. 

 

 

Suzuki Swift Sport had a cracking N/A engine, 

& 1.2 N/A engines if various models were & still are good. 

 

There are DualJet Suzuki's available in the UK like with an Ignis which comes with or without Mild Hybrid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

Took me a while to figure what an NA car is. There are still plenty if NA petrol cars being sold. The lower power PSA 1.2L petrol is a case in point. Certainly available in the C3 and C3 Aircross, and probably in Peugeot 208 and Corsas as well.

Tell me that the ethanol isn't made by fermentation with carbon dioxide fizzing away all the time...

2 minutes ago, Wino said:

Tell me that the ethanol isn't made by fermentation with carbon dioxide fizzing away all the time...

 

Yes, probably. But it is only producing part of the carbon dioxide fixed by photosynthesis. The remaining carbon is in the alcohol, to be released when the alcohol is burnt. So the alcohol itself is carbon neutral. What isn't is the power necessary to isolate and distil the ethanol and transport it.

3 hours ago, Routemaster1461 said:

Took me a while to figure what an NA car is. There are still plenty if NA petrol cars being sold. The lower power PSA 1.2L petrol is a case in point. Certainly available in the C3 and C3 Aircross, and probably in Peugeot 208 and Corsas as well.

 

Do you what has held the record for the fastest forced induction production car in the world ?

 

Skoda Octavia at 228 mph.

Two way figure, was producing around 600 hp.

 

One of the great pluses of turbo over N.A. is more power is much easier to get.

I believe it will also adapt to E10 better than N.A. through the electronics.

 

Odd how he says 'supercharged'  in the early video when it is turbo.  'Turbo or Supercharged' in this.

 

121 Octane fuel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

41 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Do you what has held the record for the fastest forced induction production car in the world ?

 

Skoda Octavia at 228 mph.

Two way figure, was producing around 600 hp.

 

One of the great pluses of turbo over N.A. is more power is much easier to get.

I believe it will also adapt to E10 better than N.A. through the electronics.

 

 

Not sure what @lol-lol is trying to say. There are plenty of faster and more powerful production cars being made. Bugatti, Mclaren, probably most of those with Italian sounding names.

 

What has this to do with E10?

 

My 70ps 1.2htp Fabia has been topped up with fuel from an E10 labelled pump a couple of days ago, doesn't seem to run any different.

 

Only time will tell.....

7 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Not sure what @lol-lol is trying to say. There are plenty of faster and more powerful production cars being made. Bugatti, Mclaren, probably most of those with Italian sounding names.

 

What has this to do with E10?

 

 

I think he's trying to deflect from his assertion that there aren't many non-turbo cars in the UK these days ...   an assertion that is patently wrong.

 

Either way you're right...   It's not much to do with the effect of bio fuel on economy...

5 minutes ago, skomaz said:

 

I think he's trying to deflect from his assertion that there aren't many non-turbo cars in the UK these days ...   an assertion that is patently wrong.

 

Either way you're right...   It's not much to do with the effect of bio fuel on economy...

 

I did ask if you had any link to stats that only 40% were turbo. 

I still believe N.A. engine s are pretty much for that crumby base model edition and it is more about the main base load of driving, delivering is done by turbo motors, thank God for the same of emissions etc.

 

but also that turbo motors will adapt to E10 better as their enhanced electronics, especially with the auto boxed versions will electronically compensate for the lower calorific value E10 fuel where manuals N.A. cars will left flayling for the lost hp.

29 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Not sure what @lol-lol is trying to say. There are plenty of faster and more powerful production cars being made. Bugatti, Mclaren, probably most of those with Italian sounding names.

 

What has this to do with E10?

 

My 70ps 1.2htp Fabia has been topped up with fuel from an E10 labelled pump a couple of days ago, doesn't seem to run any different.

 

Only time will tell.....

 

High Torque and Power, HTP.

Think there is a trade description case there.

BMW.

They were not crumby base models.

 

Just 2 years back.

 

 

 

Edited 10 August, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

I had an email from Shell last week (as I subscribe to their loyalty scheme) informing me that E10 will be available from 1st September across the UK, and not a day before. So at least one supplier is being sensible.