1 hour ago, MartinMMorgan said:

and a jerky experience with the clutch.

 

This can be overcome with very good clutch control.

I have had customers come in complaining of a shake / knock when they first move off from a standstill with their car.

Yet when I test drive the car it is not present.

 

It might be Skoda have a SMF clutch listed ( to be fitted now ) but had a DMF listed a original equipment on the car.

Hence the confusion. 

 

Worked for one big European manufacture who couldn't tell us what type of rear brake cylinders were fitted to one range of their cars.

When ever we ordered some we got both types sent to us. 

 

Good luck on Friday.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

28 minutes ago, AGFalco said:

It might be Skoda have a SMF clutch listed ( to be fitted now ) but had a DMF listed a original equipment on the car.

Hence the confusion. 

I thought the VIN would give Skoda UK (Skoda dealer network) detailed specs of that VIN build at factory?

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

I thought the VIN would give Skoda UK (Skoda dealer network) detailed specs of that VIN build at factory?

 

That is exactly the purpose of CAR DATA and why it can come in handy - in any individual car model there will be options for lots of parts, CAR DATA defines them for that individual car, and in many cases supplies you with a build date - if that is needed.

 

In my example of a very late build factory customer order car, taking one area into account - suspension, many parts had changed to the face lifted model parts were physically possible, no OEM part web cat I used listed the correct parts, even VW dealership parts people who kept 1,000,000 parts numbers in their heads, like some parts people do, would get it right for me for that car.

10 hours ago, rum4mo said:

That is exactly the purpose of CAR DATA and why it can come in handy - in any individual car model there will be options for lots of parts, CAR DATA defines them for that individual car, and in many cases supplies you with a build date - if that is needed.

Which CAR DATA service is this, do you have a link?

 

2 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Which CAR DATA service is this, do you have a link?

 

 

I've always left that to the individual VW Groups dealership parts departments to provide that for/to me on request, if I was an accomplished user of Ekta ect - and I'm not, I would probably work out where it is located.

10 hours ago, rum4mo said:

I've always left that to the individual VW Groups dealership parts departments to provide that for/to me on request,

Wow, I'm crushed, you've let me down and disappointed me,

 

 

 

 

I thought you'd got an 'in' to factory build info.

 

I'm used to overpriced and over-valued old cars called "classics" where there are "experts" who claim to know what parts, paints and trim would have been on the car when it left the factory based on records - of British, and European, car builds in the 50s-80s.     Totally ridiculous to fully trust those records that were/are available for those cars back then and to think anything worked to strict standards of supply and fit.  I've had a few British cars built by Roberts (remember the Not the 9 O'clock News sketch).

 

Edited 26 August, 20214 yr by nta16
clarify I meant records to classics

20 hours ago, rum4mo said:

CAR DATA

 I will have a look on erwin Skoda tomorrow at work for mine.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

Back to the original issue, DMF > SMF, I've just read that the official conversion kit includes a solid RHS drive shaft, and a S/W update.

I'm still at a lost with this, are Skoda saying the DMF (with?, without? stop/start) has so many issues and is so bad that they recommend it be replaced with a SMF conversion?

 

And that you can't get the DMF & clutch to do a like for like replacement?

 

As the garage that fitted the (wrong type?) of DMF are refitting the previous parts and giving a full refund (plaudits to them for this) for now at least I'd go with A G Falco's idea of getting used to working with the clutch pedal (to accelerator pedal at pulling away) control.  If it's found that it can't happily be worked around or if the problem gets a lot worse then the £1,500 expenditure could be considered.

 

53 minutes ago, nta16 said:

I'm still at a lost with this, are Skoda saying the DMF (with?, without? stop/start) has so many issues and is so bad that they recommend it be replaced with a SMF conversion?

 

And that you can't get the DMF & clutch to do a like for like replacement?

 

As the garage that fitted the (wrong type?) of DMF are refitting the previous parts and giving a full refund (plaudits to them for this) for now at least I'd go with A G Falco's idea of getting used to working with the clutch pedal (to accelerator pedal at pulling away) control.  If it's found that it can't happily be worked around or if the problem gets a lot worse then the £1,500 expenditure could be considered.

 

 

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

Back to the original issue, DMF > SMF, I've just read that the official conversion kit includes a solid RHS drive shaft, and a S/W update.

 

Oddly enough guys, I've called three Skoda dealerships since I last wrote anything on here, and apparently the conversion kit from dual to single is standard across the board, in respect of my year/make/specific model. Apparently they were prone to premature failure and too many problems arose, so they stopped making the dual mass flywheel and instead provide the single flywheel conversion kit. 

 

Oddly enough exactly what 'rum4mo' said... I didn't take in all that they said though I remember them mentioning a shaft replacement. 

 

Just going to pick up my car; all the original parts have been put back and apparently the stop-start issues have ceased. I'm also being refunded my £650 still, which is some good news (in a way).

 

Cheapest any local Skoda dealer/garage will do the above for is £1100. So I've booked my car in for September 7th for the new clutch and single flywheel conversion. 

 

When picking up the car up from the dealership I'll be insistent on being sat either in the front passengers seat whilst my car is test drove by one of their employees or myself being provided the keys to test drive my vehicle before paying the costs due.

 

After the experiences I've had already I don't like the idea of paying without even at least being shown it's all working as expected. They can hold on to my wallet, bank cards, ID and phone for all I care as insurance whilst I drive off for 10 minutes. I just don't want to be in a position of paying £1100 and turning back 20 mins later because of another mess up you know. I understand not everywhere is the same but surely it's courtesy to show the customer all is working as expected. 

 

 

Edited 27 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

Martin,

if this DMF proved so bad on your model/year is there any come back from Skoda?  Any info or details on here perhaps?

 

Explain to the garage the history and you wanting to test drive the car after the conversion before you take the car in so everyone knows what is expected, I see no problem whatsoever in you test driving the car after the work.

 

I like your new profile photo, colour coordinated (coded!) too.

 

Let's hope 7th September is the end of the issue and you're just back to normal service and driver maintenance.

 

On 25/08/2021 at 21:10, AGFalco said:

It might be Skoda have a SMF clutch listed ( to be fitted now ) but had a DMF listed a original equipment on the car.

 

4 hours ago, MartinMMorgan said:

the conversion kit from dual to single is standard across the board

 

I presume that the clutch friction plate and flywheel face were still in good condition when they went back in?

Some people would only change the clutch when the friction plate is worn out.

I know people who have used a car with worn springs ( but not friction plate ) on a DMF for many thousands of miles with no problem.

 

There is a technique / skill you want to apply for this.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

On 27/08/2021 at 16:13, nta16 said:

Martin,

if this DMF proved so bad on your model/year is there any come back from Skoda?  Any info or details on here perhaps?

 

Explain to the garage the history and you wanting to test drive the car after the conversion before you take the car in so everyone knows what is expected, I see no problem whatsoever in you test driving the car after the work.

 

I like your new profile photo, colour coordinated (coded!) too.

 

Let's hope 7th September is the end of the issue and you're just back to normal service and driver maintenance.

 

 

23 hours ago, AGFalco said:

 

 

I presume that the clutch friction plate and flywheel face were still in good condition when they went back in?

Some people would only change the clutch when the friction plate is worn out.

I know people who have used a car with worn springs ( but not friction plate ) on a DMF for many thousands of miles with no problem.

 

There is a technique / skill you want to apply for this.

 

Thanks, AG Falco

 

Thanks 'nta16' for the compliments on my photo - me and the misses went crabbing in Weymouth!

 

'AG Falco', apparently they were all in good nick upon being put back in and my car feels back to normality minus the knocking of course. Stop and start is also 100 percent functional again! They did say they cleaned up the parts before putting them back in, though I couldn't comment on what they cleaned altogether. My clutch does feel lighter mind. I was given the full £650 refunded too which I thought very honest and decent of them. The clutch hasn't been the issue, I just find it logical to get it replaced whilst doing the flywheel you know. 

 

Just gotta get my head around having the parts replaced via the dealers. The quotes are eye-watering but I've accepted the situation for what it is. Though the one dealer with the cheapest quote are the ones that have communicated the littlest. I know dealers have a lot of middle men etc., but I like being told the ins and outs of what's required in regards to work being carried out. I suppose I'm nosey like that and like to know what my money is buying. Like I had to prompt them about the flywheel conversion in order to have it in writing and clarify that the conversion is also what their quote entails, whereas the other dealers with the initial £1500 quotes have told me anything and everything from the get go; for example, I didn't even need to mention the conversions - they'd chewed my ear off with what's involved lol. It bugs me that the one with the cheapest quote haven't said much besides the obvious 'clutch and flywheel replacement' and 'quote of.... including parts and labour.' Oh well. Just gotta wait for the 7th and hope for the best I suppose. 

Edited 28 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

I understand what you are saying, like I'd like to hear/say that they understand that this task involves replacing the clutch/flywheel, drive shaft and S/W changing, if nothing else but to give you confidence that what you think is being done, is being done completely as per VW Group instruction for this conversion.

 

It is also important to understand that if you prescribe what you want done, and money is of utmost importance, a more "customer compliant" workshop might try to give you what you have asked for and not completely as they would normal do wrt this task - in a bid to save you some money and to work to your strict directions, most professional workshops would make sure that what they are doing, is exactly what VW Group outlines for that conversion - otherwise they could leave themselves open to the customer trying to back track when things did not go as expected.

Difficult one as some of the worst communicators can do the best work and visa-versa and anywhere between the two.  You certainly want conformation before the work is done that it fully complies with what's required to manufacturers standards (or better).

 

No matter how good the present clutch seems I think most would want to change it for new at this stage unless not authorised to do so.

 

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

I understand what you are saying, like I'd like to hear/say that they understand that this task involves replacing the clutch/flywheel, drive shaft and S/W changing, if nothing else but to give you confidence that what you think is being done, is being done completely as per VW Group instruction for this conversion.

 

It is also important to understand that if you prescribe what you want done, and money is of utmost importance, a more "customer compliant" workshop might try to give you what you have asked for and not completely as they would normal do wrt this task - in a bid to save you some money and to work to your strict directions, most professional workshops would make sure that what they are doing, is exactly what VW Group outlines for that conversion - otherwise they could leave themselves open to the customer trying to back track when things did not go as expected.

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Difficult one as some of the worst communicators can do the best work and visa-versa and anywhere between the two.  You certainly want conformation before the work is done that it fully complies with what's required to manufacturers standards (or better).

 

No matter how good the present clutch seems I think most would want to change it for new at this stage unless not authorised to do so.

 

 

Exactly, it's a difficult one. And whilst I naturally want to save money, I'm already swaying to the other side if only for the better communication and reassurance. Just giving me confirmation "clutch and flywheel replacement, including single flywheel conversion will cost...." means very little. I did politely ask via telephone if I could speak with someone else but kept going through to the same 'service advisor'. And when I'd ask particular questions I'd get an answer of 'I don't understand what you meant' or 'I'm unsure'. I understand the person's who'll be working on my vehicle aren't those on the telephone but I naturally want to know the ins and outs of a cats behind lol. So for the sake of reassurance and being in the loop, I am seriously considering the other dealerships.

 

For example... the more expensive one.... I called today to see if I could speak to the individual I'd been in email contact with, but unfortunately they'd just left. However the gentleman on the phone was really helpful, provided me with reassurance, jotted down all my queries and assured me they'd get the person to call me back by Tuesday given the bank holiday. And I think the part that hit the sweet spot for me was when he said "don't be daft, anything we can do to help and we will try our best to look after you.... take care in the meantime....' I explained I'd had a cheaper quote elsewhere and that I'd like to query if they can price match somehow. I'm hoping they can at least work on the quote a tad. They're more out of the way than the other dealerships so it says something they've caught my eye and I tried to explain that too. But between ourselves I'm already swaying to them if just for peace of mind.

 

The little things you know guys. Not just 'yes' and 'no' replies. Back to the cheapest dealership quote... I'd sent an email at one point but was then told on the phone 'I've seen your email but I've been busy I'm afraid....'  - this middle person isn't the best lol and I'm meant to be going there in less than two weeks! I'm certainly not going to muck them about and will give adequate notice if I do decide to go elsewhere. However I hope it doesn't come to that but I'm caught between a rock and hard place.

 

I am possibly overthinking things. They probably do this day in and day out on Skoda vehicles... but from a consumer point of view, I don't know that. It may just be another job to them in its simplicity but then again it may not. I only want the reassurances because the other dealers estimated similar costs to one another. With this being hundreds cheaper, that's a huge jump considering they are all main dealers. That's really why I've been pushing to try and get the best of insight into the work... I've been told in writing ("clutch and flywheel replacement... including the single flywheel conversion.... cost of.... including VAT..." but it's not the same.

Edited 28 August, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

On 28/08/2021 at 19:52, rum4mo said:

I understand what you are saying, like I'd like to hear/say that they understand that this task involves replacing the clutch/flywheel, drive shaft and S/W changing, if nothing else but to give you confidence that what you think is being done, is being done completely as per VW Group instruction for this conversion.

 

It is also important to understand that if you prescribe what you want done, and money is of utmost importance, a more "customer compliant" workshop might try to give you what you have asked for and not completely as they would normal do wrt this task - in a bid to save you some money and to work to your strict directions, most professional workshops would make sure that what they are doing, is exactly what VW Group outlines for that conversion - otherwise they could leave themselves open to the customer trying to back track when things did not go as expected.

 

On 28/08/2021 at 20:02, nta16 said:

Difficult one as some of the worst communicators can do the best work and visa-versa and anywhere between the two.  You certainly want conformation before the work is done that it fully complies with what's required to manufacturers standards (or better).

 

No matter how good the present clutch seems I think most would want to change it for new at this stage unless not authorised to do so.

 

Hi guys, quick update. Car is fixed. Total cost £1150 in the end. 

 

Worth noting for anyone with a Fabia though, the Mk3 Fabia's from 2014 to the end of 2015 all came with DMF's that were prone to premature failure. These were switched on later Mk3 Fabia's to single flywheels. Not just due to premature failure but apparently due to the earlier Fabia Mk3's cutting out too easily and frequently when at low revs (crawling speeds - 0 to 12mph from my experience). Just thought I'd add this part guys. There was indeed a recall on my model of car yet I still had to pay full price to get it fixed via the dealer!

 

Long story short, anyone after an mk3 Fabia made from 2014 to the end of 2015, watch out and make sure that it has had the single flywheel conversion lol. All the dealers I've spoken to concur that many of the 14-15 Fabia's across the board were coming in under warranty for flywheel issues. The recall doesn't affect Mk3's made from 2016 onwards though.

Edited 8 September, 20214 yr by MartinMMorgan

Thanks for reporting back Martin, and for the info and warning.

 

I've never really understood the system of recalls and how they operate (or don't)  With manufacturers generally there seems to be a lot of reluctance sometimes (often?) about admitting to the need for recalls, advising of it, and how it's categorised.  The information isn't as easy to find as it should be, and that's for the ones admitted to.

 

At least this is now finally sorted.  👍

 

13 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Thanks for reporting back Martin, and for the info and warning.

 

I've never really understood the system of recalls and how they operate (or don't)  With manufacturers generally there seems to be a lot of reluctance sometimes (often?) about admitting to the need for recalls, advising of it, and how it's categorised.  The information isn't as easy to find as it should be, and that's for the ones admitted to.

 

At least this is now finally sorted.  👍

 

 

Yep, finally sorted! Oddly enough the former owner of my car took it in for cutting out at low speeds 3 years ago and was told there was nothing wrong with it. The official paperwork from their local Skoda dealer reads "advised owner to be given tutorial on how to operate the vehicle efficiently" lol. 

 

You take care and hopefully I won't be complaining on here for a while lol. Smooth riding from here on out, fingers crossed.

35 minutes ago, MartinMMorgan said:

Oddly enough the former owner of my car took it in for cutting out at low speeds 3 years ago and was told there was nothing wrong with it. The official paperwork from their local Skoda dealer reads "advised owner to be given tutorial on how to operate the vehicle efficiently" lol. 

Wow, how's that fit in with dates of recall and why was that customer and car missed(?).  That person. like you, picked up on a fault as the driver of the car which the experts missed and dismissed so in that respect in this matter you both where better than the experts, which some experts can accept and acknowledge but not the Billy-big-*******s types that litter the car trade.

 

 

41 minutes ago, MartinMMorgan said:

hopefully I won't be complaining on here for a while lol. Smooth riding from here on out, fingers crossed.

You had a great deal to complain about but you persisted with solving the problem and have solved it.  You learnt from the issue and process and have also passed on information to others from here, well done.

 

If you're anywhere near lucky with cars, unlike me, you'll remember all this as unlike me you' won't have so many problems with cars and the car trade you can't remember what solved what the previous times the problems arose.  🤣

 

Good luck.

 

I think for most of the big issues, ie ones that could cause danger to life of occupants or other road users, VW Group do follow the rules and hand over the info and the re-calling to DVLA, some like the slackening inlet variable cam shaft pulley on the earliest 1.2TSI 16V seemed to be left to being "if advised by owner",  some like the leaking of HP petrol on the same engines don't seem to be a concern after all it is only petrol that is spraying out onto the front of the engine and the road, so no real issue - maybe!

 

Lots and lots of "fixes" are only applied if reported by an awkward customer.

 

My wife's previous car, a September 2002 VW Polo 1.4 16V with the BBY engine, did tend to spit out some weird engine fault codes in winter, typically only in January, VW dealer said that nothing had been raised to resolve that, I found out that that was not true 6 or 7 years later, by that time even pressing them to apply the correct S/W patch and me paying for it got me nowhere, they were not interested, so no where else really to turn, so I resorted to clearing logged faults every February from then onwards.

 

My older daughter's November 2009 SEAT Ibiza 1.4 16V ended up having a a battery draining issue, I chased that for a year for more before bumping into some forum info that confirmed that there had been a fix, a BCM S/W patch, so I handed that car into SEAT dealership, problem traced back to a clockspring assembly issue, that part was sourced and replaced, biggish money paid, car handed back, same battery drain as before, handed back in, no fault found, while I was planning my next move, the owner of that group closed down that dealership as it could be sold for in-town housing, I complained to SEAT UK and they said that they would hand me over to the next local SEAT dealership and support that investigation while understanding that I had paid money out already for no fix - that ended up just being "brush off" treatment.  A year later I chatted to the next nearest but maybe undesirable SEAT dealership, the service reception guy recognised that very issue as they had just sorted out the same issue on a 2009 VW Polo 1.4 16V in the workshop, so they went through the same procedure with SEAT UK, were guided to where to find the SEAT equivalent S/W patch, and applied it, job done!

 

My point being, both these issues were known about, but left until the customer complained about them before starting to resolve them - in the case of the VW Polo one, never!

 

Edit:- to be fair, it is not just a VW Group issue, I had a case of bubbles appearing in the power steering fluid when the brake pedal was pressed quite a few times with the engine stopped, in my old 1991 Vauxhall Cav GSI 2000 16V 4X4. The correct procedure for checking the power steering fluid level was to first press the brake pedal 10 times, then check the level - I found that fluid was being ejected from the open reservoir due to air being added into it! Had a chat with local Vauxhall workshop, that caused a lot of laughing at my expense from the Tech and mechanics! Maybe 2 months later DVLA sent out a recall for faulty four wheel drive control sphere, I booked it in, no laughing now, a new sphere with a white collar painted on it was fitted, problem solved - at least in that case, Vauxhall did trigger a general safety or semi-safety re-call via DVLA, so maybe I'm wrong and it remains mainly a VW Group issue leaving customers on their own.

 

BTW, that car used the power steering fluid as a control medium for the four wheel drive control.

Edited 9 September, 20214 yr by rum4mo

No way is it just VW, the car trade has always been a bit like the tobacco trade, deny it for as long as possible then move the lies to a different market territory and get promote more sales there.

 

Things have swung back towards when Ford allowed it to be cheaper to pay lawsuits for people burnt than sort a build issue and company (and other) doctors told people smoking was good for your throat.  The diesel scam publicity probably helped distract from a few other issues being widely known about.

 

Any international company that trades in USA or worst still based in USA knows the cost of litigation and how to avoid it.

 

Motor trade, and tobacco and sugar, have very powerful and very well resourced lobby groups so over very many decades they got used to how to pull the strings to their benefit.

 

Edited 9 September, 20214 yr by nta16

To find out if there are  ( some of the ) any safety recalls on your car you can go to:- 

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/

 

Put in your Reg number ( press Enter ) then scroll down to and click on:-

Outstanding vehicle recalls

Thanks, AG Falco