Anyone else have slight notch in gear shifting? 5 speed manual

[CReese123]

Hi everyone..

May just be overthinking but has anyone with a 1.4 tdi experienced notchiness in gears?

 

My car's a 5 speed manual. I've no issues selecting gears but it's not smooth as butter, if you get me. The process is kind of like this: shift from 3rd gear  - move past neutral and into 4th - hit a brick wall - then 4th gear engages. I don't have to repeat trying to engage gears, it engages every time. It's just as though rather than the gears engaging A to B, I rather feel it's A-B-C, B being what I call the 'brick wall'. It doesn't just slide into gears. It's constant hesitation before it engages itself = a process that'll last a second or so if that. I'm don't ram the gears in neither. I wait for the hesitation to pass and the gears to engage themselves.

 

 Is this normal?

 

Bearing in mind the car only has like 24k on the clock and the thrust bearing/clutch are in mint condition on being opened and inspected. 

-
Chris. 

[nta16]

Hitting a brick wall feeling - no it's not normal, is this for all gears?.

 

I find the Fabia (5-speed) gearbox on my wife's car a little notchy feeling and on a rare occasion 1st and reverse a little sticky, best to have car fully stopped on handbrake so it doesn't roll and revs fully dropped with clutch fully depressed (all as I should do anyway). 

 

Normally with older cars thoughts would be about gearbox oil level (and oil age) then on to clutch operation before the less palatable thoughts on the gearbox itself.

 

The 24k-miles wouldn't necessarily mean low use (or abuse) of the clutch and gearbox, if fact possibly the opposite, but if the clutch is in mint condition it suggests there might not have been over use and abuse.  Did you also try dropping some transmission oil to see what it's like and if there are any bits in it (or you could send it off for analysis).

 

I'm not sure what if any interference the computer programs have but I always recommend that your car battery is in good condition and good state of charge so as not to upset them, being able to start the car and lights seeming bright enough aren't a good test for this.

 

Have you driven other Fabia Mk3s or someone else driven you car as points of reference?

 

Edited 9 September, 2021 by nta16

[CReese123]

4 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Hitting a brick wall feeling - no it's not normal, is this for all gears?.

 

I find the Fabia (5-speed) gearbox on my wife's car a little notchy feeling and on a rare occasion 1st and reverse a little sticky, best to have car fully stopped on handbrake so it doesn't roll and revs fully dropped with clutch fully depressed (all as I should do anyway). 

 

Normally with older cars thoughts would be about gearbox oil level (and oil age) then on to clutch operation before the less palatable thoughts on the gearbox itself.

 

The 24k-miles wouldn't necessarily mean low use (or abuse) of the clutch and gearbox, if fact possibly the opposite, but if the clutch is in mint condition it suggests there might not have been over use and abuse.  Did you also try dropping some transmission oil to see what it's like and if there are any bits in it (or you could send it off for analysis).

 

I'm not sure what if any interference the computer programs have but I always recommend that your car battery is in good condition and good state of charge so as not to upset them, being able to start the car and lights seeming bright enough aren't a good test for this.

 

Have you driven other Fabia Mk3s or someone else driven you car as points of reference?

 

Maybe hitting a brick wall is strong a word but notchiness is another word I'd describe also. It's kind of throughout though 5 gear is extremely smooth and downshifting does not really have this notchiness. Also going into 1st and reverse at a stop are also fairly smooth. I suppose I expected gear shifting is to be extremely smooth with a fabia. The notchiness is a 1 or 2 second interference between gears. In other words I can feel when I am changing gears? Would much prefer if it was smooth as butter and felt like a 1 way process. Well I drained a small amount of gearbox oil and topped it up. It appeared to have no bits and no different to what I expect gearbox oil to be. I don't struggle engaging gears at all. It is just a very displeasing feeling to have hesitation when changing gears... to feel like instead or slipping into gear it brushes against an obstacle or so along the way. Not sure if I am making lot of sense here? 

[CReese123]

Just now, CReese123 said:

Maybe hitting a brick wall is strong a word but notchiness is another word I'd describe also. It's kind of throughout though 5 gear is extremely smooth and downshifting does not really have this notchiness. Also going into 1st and reverse at a stop are also fairly smooth. I suppose I expected gear shifting is to be extremely smooth with a fabia. The notchiness is a 1 or 2 second interference between gears. In other words I can feel when I am changing gears? Would much prefer if it was smooth as butter and felt like a 1 way process. Well I drained a small amount of gearbox oil and topped it up. It appeared to have no bits and no different to what I expect gearbox oil to be. I don't struggle engaging gears at all. It is just a very displeasing feeling to have hesitation when changing gears... to feel like instead or slipping into gear it brushes against an obstacle or so along the way. Not sure if I am making lot of sense here? 

The feel when I am changing gears, I describe as;

Shift from 3rd - pass neutral - feel slight one second or so (if that) momentary hesitation  - then it'll go into 4th as intended. It does this in other gears too. Not 24 7 but almost.  

[CReese123]

I have drove one fabia before though it was few years ago so I cannot remember the feel if honest. 

[nta16]

Quick thoughts as they drop into my brain, could be

• you're expectations are too high,
• you're gear change technique or rushing/too quick
• clutch pedal going all the way down, no doubled up or rolled mats 
• did you drive petrol engine cars before or now also
• something wrong with the car (I always blame computer programs first, apologise later, if required). 

I loathe working on cars and until this year never touched the Fabia but the first job I did was to change the gearbox oil as the car was over 5 years old and had lots of short journeys in its 38k-miles.  My wife said the gear changes were better after this and I thought so too, still a bit notchy.  I always recommend timely lubricant changes and to use good or better quality oils to give better margins of protection and for longer, I'm used to old cars where something fails and then puts more stress on other parts and components, I like the strains to be within the margins of the lubricant/coolant so that the car can fall apart when I get back home rather than at the roadside.

 

I used Millers TRX Synth 75W80 GL5 as I like Millers because it's a local blender and has good products - and it was on special offer at a good price at the time too.

 

I always do a hot drain and leave to drain for as long as possible to get as much existing oil and contaminants/muck/crud/bits out as possible leaving the least amount of such still in the box which not only cleans more but also dilutes the new fresh oil less.  I also like to tip a small amount of warmed fresh oil through as a small flush but it's not worth it with this box.

 

[CReese123]

17 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Quick thoughts as they drop into my brain, could be

• you're expectations are too high,
• you're gear change technique or rushing/too quick
• clutch pedal going all the way down, no doubled up or rolled mats 
• did you drive petrol engine cars before or now also
• something wrong with the car (I always blame computer programs first, apologise later, if required). 

I loathe working on cars and until this year never touched the Fabia but the first job I did was to change the gearbox oil as the car was over 5 years old and had lots of short journeys in its 38k-miles.  My wife said the gear changes were better after this and I thought so too, still a bit notchy.  I always recommend timely lubricant changes and to use good or better quality oils to give better margins of protection and for longer, I'm used to old cars where something fails and then puts more stress on other parts and components, I like the strains to be within the margins of the lubricant/coolant so that the car can fall apart when I get back home rather than at the roadside.

 

I used Millers TRX Synth 75W80 GL5 as I like Millers because it's a local blender and has good products - and it was on special offer at a good price at the time too.

 

I always do a hot drain and leave to drain for as long as possible to get as much existing oil and contaminants/muck/crud/bits out as possible leaving the least amount of such still in the box which not only cleans more but also dilutes the new fresh oil less.  I also like to tip a small amount of warmed fresh oil through as a small flush but it's not worth it with this box.

 

All the above; 

I am picky and openly admit I can find a problem with anything  (terrible flaw on my part I know).

 

I don't clutch change awfully fast but just that I'm compelled to take my time I dislike. Although even with faster gear changes I've never been one to do rapid changes.

 

Oh and it's my first diesel! Driven one or two briefly in work but not enough to get a feel of them. Always owned petrol myself.

 

Also that's very good advice of you for the gearbox oil change and good practice too 

[nta16]

My wife's previous car was diesel the only one we ever had and I rarely got to drive that, less so than Fabia, but it was 5 years ago and I can't remember that far back.  I've also driven mate's company diesel cars but again too few times and too long ago to remember any differences.  Other than my first Spridget and an MX-5 I'm more used to slow old boxes that don't like to be rushed, even with quickshift slaves and levers and  so I'm used to taking my time.

 

Perhaps your foot is moving quicker than your arm, (or other way round(?).  Get someone else to drive your car and see what they think.

 

If you've got stop/start the battery condition and charge is even more important as is if the engine (and gearbox oil) is warmed or cold.

 

I change rear axle oils too (not on Fabia, so far 😄), I know some think as oil is in the ground for millions of years that's how long it lasts in the gearbox and axle, I've drained stuff out that been in for decades, and looks like it has.

 

Having put all that don't dismiss it if you think something is wrong, it's your car you drive it, internet is marvellous of course but still no good at actually feeling what's going on.

 

[CReese123]

6 minutes ago, nta16 said:

My wife's previous car was diesel the only one we ever had and I rarely got to drive that, less so than Fabia, but it was 5 years ago and I can't remember that far back.  I've also driven mate's company diesel cars but again too few times and too long ago to remember any differences.  Other than my first Spridget and an MX-5 I'm more used to slow old boxes that don't like to be rushed, even with quickshift slaves and levers and  so I'm used to taking my time.

 

Perhaps your foot is moving quicker than your arm, (or other way round(?).  Get someone else to drive your car and see what they think.

 

If you've got stop/start the battery condition and charge is even more important as is if the engine (and gearbox oil) is warmed or cold.

 

I change rear axle oils too (not on Fabia, so far 😄), I know some think as oil is in the ground for millions of years that's how long it lasts in the gearbox and axle, I've drained stuff out that been in for decades, and looks like it has.

 

Having put all that don't dismiss it if you think something is wrong, it's your car you drive it, internet is marvellous of course but still no good at actually feeling what's going on.

 

I'm terrible for wanting oils changed regularly. Often those who know me think I am mad to do so, but oil is vital and I don't believe the efficiency of oil is the same after prolonged use. 

 

More than likely it's what you say. I remember upon first purchasing I could not enter 5 gear. It turned out it's the first car I've had that does not like going all the way right and forward. Take it 90 percent right and it'll go in each and every time. Take it all the way and you get nowhere. Same as first gear. I noticed it likes going in straight so far and then if you wiggle and go further it works a treat each time with zero force needed. Maybe these are all quirks of the car but who knows. 

[nta16]

The efficiency of the gearbox oil drops off within 5,000 miles if you believe Redline (see attached PDF).  Modern oils are so much better than they used to be and the range so much wider and the relative cost so low that you might as well spend more and get better.  Always difficult to say which is best for any particular car/box/axle/engine/environment/driver but a good oil is a good oil if correct to application.

 

I'm not an expert in anything and not mechanical or technical just have experience and don't always believe pub/internet or traditional wisdom.  I was told not to use Mobil 1 in my classic car engines, by people who did fractions of annual mileage in their classics compared to mine, and then wouldn't believe GL5 spec oil was going into some rear axles from years back and finally that some (many?) modern GL5 gear oils could be used in boxes with "yellow metals".

 

I think you might be overthinking the gear selection and changing it then, just do it and then once you're used to it let "muscle" memory take over

 

I've got to cool myself at the mention of difficulty with getting 5th gear as I went to and checked out some "specialist experts" in 5-speed conversions for my car with recon box and shorten remote and had them fit it and other work, and to cut a long story short they were con-men and did a very poor job (I've deleted the rest).  Anyway 5th gear remote is slightly out of line so a real notch shift.  If I think about changing up to 5th it's awkward, if I don't think about it its just notchy.  Same with changing beam on the (one and only) column stalk the other night first time I've used the headlights properly in ages and I was getting headlights momentarily off between switching as I was thinking about the action rather than just doing it.

 

See how you get on over the next week and let us know.

 

redline-mtl-redline-mt90.pdf

Edited 10 September, 2021 by nta16
speeling and stuff

[CReese123]

16 hours ago, nta16 said:

The efficiency of the gearbox oil drops off within 5,000 miles if you believe Redline (see attached PDF).  Modern oils are so much better than they used to be and the range so much wider and the relative cost so low that you might as well spend more and get better.  Always difficult to say which is best for any particular car/box/axle/engine/environment/driver but a good oil is a good oil if correct to application.

 

I'm not an expert in anything and not mechanical or technical just have experience and don't always believe pub/internet or traditional wisdom.  I was told not to use Mobil 1 in my classic car engines, by people who did fractions of annual mileage in their classics compared to mine, and then wouldn't believe GL5 spec oil was going into some rear axles from years back and finally that some (many?) modern GL5 gear oils could be used in boxes with "yellow metals".

 

I think you might be overthinking the gear selection and changing it then, just do it and then once you're used to it let "muscle" memory take over

 

I've got to cool myself at the mention of difficulty with getting 5th gear as I went to and checked out some "specialist experts" in 5-speed conversions for my car with recon box and shorten remote and had them fit it and other work, and to cut a long story short they were con-men and did a very poor job (I've deleted the rest).  Anyway 5th gear remote is slightly out of line so a real notch shift.  If I think about changing up to 5th it's awkward, if I don't think about it its just notchy.  Same with changing beam on the (one and only) column stalk the other night first time I've used the headlights properly in ages and I was getting headlights momentarily off between switching as I was thinking about the action rather than just doing it.

 

See how you get on over the next week and let us know.

 

redline-mtl-redline-mt90.pdf 39.98 kB · 1 download

I changed the gearbox oil. Shifting is a tad smoother although the notchiness is still there and not budged much. Unsure whether to just roll with it? Obviously I don't know if there is a problem or not, and would not want to be wasting money unnecessarily . It engages gears etc. Just wish it was smoother that's all. I would not know where to start to get an opinion off of a technician even if I wanted one. And I'm assuming it'd be a time consuming and costly job even for a professional to inspect the system and tell me there's something or nothing wrong?

[nta16]

When did you change the oil?

 

Unless it's placebo kidding ourselves, and even if it is, that if it feels a little smooth it's an improvement, if only in mind, and changing the oil means its 5 years newer in age and use so an inexpensive improvement.

 

Sorry I didn't make myself clear, I meant let anyone else drive your car (subject to legality and trust of course) and see if they think it feels notchy to them.  Ideally of course they'd be a regular driver of a car the same make, model, age, mileage and use as yours and if they were you could perhaps also drive their car to see if theirs feels the same to you.  But if not, as close as you can get or anyone that drives a similar VAG car with the same transmission - or even really anyone that drive a modern car.

 

The thing is you're now fixated by this so really notice it whereas someone else has no real vested interest so could just say how they find it.

 

I don't find the Fabia box great but it's not bad and as an average ordinary car driver I doubt I'd notice anything about it

[FabiaGonzales]

The notchiness is just how synchromesh engagement gearboxes roll. You can run thinner oil, which will make the synchro's match each shafts rpms and engage quicker, but you will increase wear on everything as it'll be less protected.

 

Double clutching with some rev matching (and making sure you're fully pressing the clutch pedal) almost completely eliminates any notchiness.

 

Applying more pressure to the shifter as you shift will help it move in quicker too but obviously it won't make it go away.