Skoda Superb Mk1 vs Skoda Superb Mk2

[Ben12345]

Hi All,

 

Im weighing up whether to spend the money on repairing my Skoda Superb Mk1 AWX 172k or putting the money towards a newer superb.

 

I believe there are issues with the 2.0 Diesel in the mk2? Is this correct? What is the specific issue?

Is it worth getting a diesel post euro 3 regs due to the DPF and over complexity of diesel engines post euro 3?

I beileve there is also an issue with the TSi petrol engine in the mk2? What is the specific issue?

Is there any other petrol engine that is recommended?

 

Are the engines the same in the Octavia range and what (other than space) is the benefit of a mk2 superb over a similar Octavia?

 

Many Thanks,

 

 

 

 

 

[Ben12345]

Can anyone advise please?

[bigjohn]

Re MK II Superb:-

 

The CR 2.0 diesel in the mkII Superb is pretty well regarded although was subject to an emissions recall after the VAG dieselgate scandal. Some people had issues with some components such as EGR valves afterwards. VW then gave a warranty (3 yerars??) for emissions components after the recall work was done. Note - in the Superb mkII the CR 2.0 was never Euro 6 so would be subject to a ULEZ charge etc. 

 

Re 1.8tsi:-

 

 

 

 

 

Re mk I Superb:-

 

The 1.9 pd engine was very well regarded but there were a couple of later versions that were prone to mechanical issues.

 

The pd 2.0 diesel in the mk I Superb had major issues as it was fitted with a poor implementation of a DPF and was fitted with a "balancer module" that also compromised the main oil pump drive as things wore that then could cause engine failure. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 September, 2021 by bigjohn

[gav_is_con]

The AWX engine is highly regarded and will run for starship mileages. I read that somewhere maybe HJ. Look after it and you could get the same. Less to go wrong also than later cars with DPF/EGR etc. 

[chimaera]

With the possible exception of the early 1.9/2.0 PD in the Mk 2, all Superb 2 diesels are Euro 5 with DPF. The DPF isn't known for failures unless you're consistently shutting down the engine during regen. Cars that live on the motorway can get 400-500,000 km out of a DPF. There's an app called VAG DPF that can help you keep track of the DPF status - you'll need a bluetooth OBD adapter so the car can talk to the phone. If you spot a regen coming up you can take the long way home so it can finish out.

 

EGR valves can be a weak point: they gunk up over time and the changeover flap can get stuck in it. Some cars failed after the EA189 update because it opens the EGR wider and the flap would get pushed further into the gunk. The real problem with the EGR failing is the 6 hours of labour needed to change it, the part itself is relatively cheap.

 

Regarding the EA189 update, there are people who think it's a bad thing. Tellingly there have been a number of owners whose cars were updated unknown to them and never noticed a difference. I can't say it made much difference to mine, maybe a bit punchier at low revs, and the DPF regens more frequently (not a big deal since I keep an eye on it with VAG DPF). My EGR valve started failing just outside the 2 year 'warranty' and Skoda Ireland paid 90 % of the repair cost with no argument once I showed them the service history. Other reports around here suggest Skoda have been pretty good to deal with any issues like that related to the update. .

 

The 2.0 PD in the mk2 was I believe similarly plagued with the balance shaft module problems as it was in other VAG models. I'm not sure if specific engine codes are shared with the Octavia Mk2 FL, but the engine families certainly are as both cars are based on the same platform.

 

Superb 2 has more cabin and boot space compared to Octavia 2. It probably also gets more toys in Elegance spec if that's something that matters to you. Being longer, it'll ride a bit better and have a little more high-speed stability, but probably not that you'd notice within the speed limits.

[bigjohn]

51 minutes ago, chimaera said:

With the possible exception of the early 1.9/2.0 PD in the Mk 2, all Superb 2 diesels are Euro 5 with DPF.

 

The early 1.9 pd Greenline mk II had a DPF. The pd engine was never a good bed fellow with a DPF because of the camshaft lobe driven unit injectors design. 

Edited 14 September, 2021 by bigjohn

[ethel]

On 13/09/2021 at 23:37, Ben12345 said:

Is there any other petrol engine that is recommended?

 

Well, the VR6 is a lot of fun, but be prepared to spend a lot of time (and money) at your friendly local filling station.. 😉

 

On 13/09/2021 at 23:37, Ben12345 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ben12345]

Thanks All.

 

If I do decide to sell would anyone on here be interested in a 172k awx?

 

Needs new sususpension parts on front and had tandem pump issue on occasion with brakes as well as emissions light and maf issue at present.

 

[Ben12345]

Do all the Skodas use the tandem braking system.

 

Seems to be a major design flaw as you have no brakes when it plays up.

 

Does the mk2 superb/ocatvia have the same front suspension as the mk1 or is it a simpler set up?

[chimaera]

3 hours ago, Ben12345 said:

Does the mk2 superb/ocatvia have the same front suspension as the mk1 or is it a simpler set up?

It's McPherson strut, same as the Golf mk 5 it's based on.

 

On 14/09/2021 at 23:59, bigjohn said:

The pd engine was never a good bed fellow with a DPF because of the camshaft lobe driven unit injectors design. 

It has nothing to do with the camshaft. The problem with the 1.9 PD and DPF is that the engine was not originally designed with a DPF in mind, and it was a bit of a bodge to add it on later. The 2.0 TDIs were designed from the start to have a DPF and it's a better job all round.

[Ben12345]

Thanks Chimaera,

 

It wasnt the DPF I had the question on but the Tandem pump (brake vacuum and diesel pump I believe).

 

Do the new Skodas M2 onwards and Octavias have this Tandem Pump for the brakes which is a bad design.

 

Thanks Again,

 

 

 

[chimaera]

The tandem pump is an intermediate fuel pump and has nothing to do with the braking system.

 

All diesel engines have to have an electric or engine driven vacuum pump to provide vacuum for the brake servo and other stuff. Diesels don't generate enough vacuum in the intake manifold to be able to provide enough for the brakes. In the event of loss of vacuum the brakes will still work, you just won't have servo assistance.

[bigjohn]

3 hours ago, chimaera said:

The tandem pump is an intermediate fuel pump and has nothing to do with the braking system.

 

 

 

I thought on a pd engine the mechanically driven Tandem pump was the primary fuel pump and also a vacuum pump for the Brake Servo and Vacuum System. I seem to remember that when diagnosing a vacuum issue with my mkI 1.9 pd Superb - wasn't that the reason it was called "Tandem" as it performed two functions?. Because of the North / South arrangement of the engine on a mkI Superb the tandem pump was wedged between the back of the engine (cam) and the bulkhead so a bit of a swine to get at.

 

Was it different on the mkII 1.9pd Superb re pump type?

 

Edited 18 September, 2021 by bigjohn

[bigjohn]

5 hours ago, chimaera said:

 

It has nothing to do with the camshaft. The problem with the 1.9 PD and DPF is that the engine was not originally designed with a DPF in mind, and it was a bit of a bodge to add it on later. The 2.0 TDIs were designed from the start to have a DPF and it's a better job all round.

 

I totally agree the pd was not originally designed with a DPF in mind and there were also some issues with DPF's being bodged on way to far away from the exhaust manifold meaning it never really achieved passive regeneration especially in the colder UK. The problem I mentioned with re cam shaft was that in the base pd design the unit injectors were not being pressurised mechanically by the cam when extra injection would be called for relating to active regeneration during the exhaust stroke  to send diesel down to the DPF - bodge no 2 required!

 

As you say the CR engine was designed from the ground up re DPF with a close coupled DPF / EGR - the only issue being if any of these components fail due to the close coupled nature they are between the engine and the bulkhead so difficult to get at and expensive to change (transverse engines)

 

At the end of the day that's why the late great pd engine was quickly phased out.

 

One other slight complication - the Superb mk II was also introduced with a 2.0 pd diesel , fairly quickly phased out!

Edited 18 September, 2021 by bigjohn

[Ben12345]

On 18/09/2021 at 18:54, chimaera said:

The tandem pump is an intermediate fuel pump and has nothing to do with the braking system.

 

All diesel engines have to have an electric or engine driven vacuum pump to provide vacuum for the brake servo and other stuff. Diesels don't generate enough vacuum in the intake manifold to be able to provide enough for the brakes. In the event of loss of vacuum the brakes will still work, you just won't have servo assistance.

Whilst the brakes m ay work, it sure doesnt feel like if I put my entire body weight on them it would work, the peddle is just too stiff to push down hard. This is at 30mph, let alone higher speed which I think would be a major issue as the car would not be able to be stopped easily.

 

[bigjohn]

On 23/09/2021 at 21:32, Ben12345 said:

Whilst the brakes m ay work, it sure doesnt feel like if I put my entire body weight on them it would work, the peddle is just too stiff to push down hard. This is at 30mph, let alone higher speed which I think would be a major issue as the car would not be able to be stopped easily.

 

 

Something isn't right there, sounds like an issue with brake servo or vacuum. I'd put the tandem pump high on the suspect list! But it could be the servo/pipework etc... 

 

Under new ownership my previous Superb 1.9pd mkI's tandem pump started failing and caused "intermittent " braking issues similar to yours getting worse over a few years - solved by replacement. It also eventually developed a diesel leak from the same pump.

 

My Superb 1.4ts mkII doesn't have a pump as it uses good old fashioned petrol inlet manifold vacuum - working rather well although probably due some rear pads/disks now approaching 100k miles ( still fitted with originals)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[chimaera]

TIL the tandem pump does both fuel & vacuum. I've never really had hands-on experience with PD engines, I went straight from VE to CR, so a chunk of my knowledge on PDs is a bit more theoretical.

 

In general, vacuum leaks tend to arise from damaged fittings and lines rather than the pump itself failing. The vacuum system is doing at least 2, and often 3 jobs: brake servo, EGR actuator, and, if it's vacuum operated, turbo vane actuator. If you've ever been in around any of those areas and messed with vacuum lines, you may have leaks around there.

 

Broken tees and other fittings are a common cause of vacuum problems so I'd suggest going around the whole system to check for damage before blaming the pump. Apart from anything else it's much less expensive to fix that stuff first.

[chimaera]

On 18/09/2021 at 22:22, bigjohn said:

One other slight complication - the Superb mk II was also introduced with a 2.0 pd diesel , fairly quickly phased out

 

The 2.0 16-valve PD was a major redesign of the PD engine and was (I'm pretty sure) designed for DPF fitment from the outset, which is why I didn't draw the distinction between CR & PD in relation to the 2.0 TDI on the Superb 2. The PD was an interim solution while they were finishing off the newer CR engines.