Hi all

 

So few days into owning DSG and I have noticed if I push on the go louder pedal I get some judder.  Do I just need to moderate my driving,  turn something off or a.n.other?

 

Cheers anyone who answers 

Judder is not right what ever the car is.

?

What engine has it got?   That will give an idea what you might have to turn on or off. 

 

The car needs 'Driving in' 

as in running in the brakes, and the tyres after setting the tyre pressures and resetting the TMPS. 

It's the 1.5 came from a manual so used to being heavy footed and it's raining tonight

Likely then Release Agent on new tyres and check the pressures are not too high from a PDI not done correctly.

 

So quite possibly just wheelspin and TC (Traction Control) and what feels like Axle Tramp but is not, it is the brakes getting nipped. 

At worst you get not just judder but a 'Bang;. 

 

Hopefully all well in a few days with the tyres scrubbed in. 

You drive a manual transmission car heavy footed?

He is used to just flooring the accelerator in a manual.

 

@Dazm

If the tyres are not the issue,  then check for the Transport Blocks not having been removed.

 

Just do a search. 

 Briskoda transport blocks.   Sometimes they are left on the car.     Likely not that but worth knowing about them. 

Had to go out and pick the kids up so less gas this time.  No judder at All.  

I also experienced this ‘judder’, my description would be snatching, when we pulled away from the forecourt on the day we picked it up with just 11 miles on the clock.

I did not accelerate heavily, more a gentle pull away.

After that it has been fine, I put it down to newness...

 

This is a 1.4Tsi 150PS with the 7 speed DSG.

 

If it happens again, it will be back to the dealer.

 

Our previous DSG on a diesel Octavia never did this.

Edited 28 September, 20214 yr by vegit8

I've been talking about something very similar to this a couple of days ago in the recent 'GETTING THE BEST OUT OF A DSG' thread.  Maybe Dazm, what you report is just this characteristic.  Although reviews often praise the DSG box in many ways, they also say that starting from standstill is not as good as with conventional fluid flywheel autos.  Even though mine's only a lowly 1.0 Auto (surprisingly perky none the less), I'm beginning to find that ensuring that the clutch initially engages before applying throttle makes 'fast' getaways much smoother, but does involve a bit more anticipation at busy junctions.  I just accept it's not as good as my former torquey Saab 2.0 fluid flywheel 9-5 auto in this respect, but a better car in many other ways.  Here's my quote from that thread.

 

 

C             Moving from Stationary       https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/843793-DSG-Moving-From-a-Dead-Stop-(it-s-awful)

 

This is the DSG downside that many reviews refer to.  I think that's good advice, consciously let the clutch engage before pressing go.  It involves a little more anticipation, particularly at T junctions turning right into a busy main road.  I have had the car jerk and spin the wheels if pressing the throttle too early & eagerly in the past.  So after reading this I've recently tried once or twice being in Sport and letting the clutch grab before touching the throttle when hoping want to make a quick getaway and it does seem to happen fairly smoothly.  Before, I found using sport even more jerky than in D.  The rather sensitive top of the pedal throttle setting in the Karoq & in my previous Yeti doesn't help for easy smooth starts.  An earlier 2.0 Saab Auto was so much more relaxing on fast getaways, but I prefer the Karoq overall.

It is rather common that people that want to push on with a DQ200 DSG get to know to start them rolling just a bit before flooring the accelerator.

1st gear really is low and will spin the tyres rather easily, and especially with some lock on. 

Then you have TC acting and nipping brakes or cutting power / drive. 

 

More powerful engines, FWD or AWD and Wet Clutch DSG's can be a different matter all together, and if comparing it is apples and pears you are comparing.

 

1.0 & 1.4 TSI's (ACT or not with 1.4TSI)  both have DQ200 dsg's and the 1.4 TSI will be 150ps, 

but really the 1.5 TSI ACT is a whole different kettle of fish. Yes there is also a DQ200 with FWD ones.

 

Similarity with all is with new tyres, all new tyres need some wear on them & not over inflated before trying to push on with them when wet, damp, cold. 

Even better is better tyres fitted than the ECO tyres they come with OEM in some cases, more about fuel economy than grip / traction.

 

(There are 1.4 & 1.5 TSI Karoq which are AWD (Haldex) and do not have the DQ200 7 speed Twin Dry Clutch DSG.)

 

Launch Control here & a heavier car with a 1.4 TSI 150ps & DSG.  

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/423600-carwows-surprising-0-62-test-results

 

Wet Road,

Launch Control,

straightlining,

but we have no idea what tyres are fitted as not mentioned here. 

Strange really he was there, drive the car, so knew how it performed and surely they had a v- box and not went by a speedo showing 62 mph. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

I have this occasionally. Mainly when wet and/or taking off on an incline.  I had to learn how to drive again with DSG - gentle on the accelerator until moving and then its okay to floor it a bit more.  I came from a car with an old style "planetary" auto and also Haldex 4wd and a heavy 2L diesil lump at the front (Tiguan) and it is very very different in a 2WD Karoq with a light engine and DSG and a heavy "go faster" foot.   I'm 99% certain what you are getting is wheelspin that is being counteracted by the TCS (Traction control system). The wheels start to spin due to lack of front end weight and reduced traction dues to moisture / new tyres with coating still on / taking off uphill and the TCS makes the front wheels seem to judder horribly.

 

When I first picked the Karoq up it was a straight swap from the Tiguan and my God I nearly stoved it when pulling out of the Stealership's forecourt.  It was quite scary.

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Edited 29 September, 20214 yr by smipx

As well as the way old style autos work more gently from standstill, half the problem seems to me, to be the way Skoda make the throttle foot pedal sensitivity work much too fiercely at the top of the pedal movement.  I still wonder if this behaviour could be ameliorated through adjustment via VCDS/OBD11 - maybe I'll ask sooussi on the other thread I mentioned before, as he seemed to know something about these 'facilities'.  I tried to breach the subject recently with the dealer at my last service, but they didn't seem interested, though i was talking through a receptionist, rather than directly with an engineer, who was probably anyway very busy.  I would worry though that any such tinkering might upset the complex way the engine and DSG are carefully programmed/adjusted to work together, so it would need to be done by someone who really knows what they are doing - that's not me - but it would be nice to not have to be quite so careful with the right foot when starting off from standstill.  My previous 1200 DSG Yeti throtlle was just as overly sensitive, so is this a general unfortunate Skoda trait?

VW Group were big on the 10 speed DSG that they were going to introduce, that with small cars would have been like a CVT, which i actually like.

 

With the DQ200 the issue is that they are trying to get low emissions and economy. 

D1 is just to get the car rolling, you have 6 gear changes before you are even at 60 mph.

 

The DQ200 is what it is.     The USA and Australia get 1.4TSI's with an 8 Speed Torque Converter autos. 

 

 No need for kidology WLTP / RDE2 results there,

just admitting what actually the fuel usage is when cars are driven in the real world. 

 

the DQ200 all with e-tech (Mild hybrid) 1.0 & 1.5 TSI's is the VW groups solution to issues that VW Group have never accepted as being issues,

 

 

 

Karoq 1.5tsi 4x4 DSG here.

I think what is being described is front wheel spin with a bit of traction control thrown in for good measure. 

I used to get this quite a lot on an old Mk2 Superb 2.0 190 FWD DSG diesel I used to have. The Torque generated could easily overcome the front tyres in the wet or dry - especially with some lock on when turning left or right out of a junction - which is one of the reasons I replaced it with a 4x4 Superb. 

Take up on my Karoq from standstill seems quite lethargic until it gets to around 20mph. The first bit of travel on the accelerator doesn't seem to do much at all until you bury it into the carpet. Selecting Sport mode doesn't seem to improve things much either.

It can be very tricky getting into a gap on a roundabout as there seems to be a large delay between right foot pressure & actual forward motion at the speed needed. However, I get no wheelspin or juddering at all, even in the wet, as the 4x4 is doing it's job nicely. 

By comparison my Superb 280 also hesitates slightly from a standing start before engaging warp factor 9. Selecting Sport mode helps a bit but does not completely solve the issue. No wheel spin though, even in the wet. I think it's common ailment that all DSG box's have at slower speeds.  Re-mapping the DSG might be the answer & improve the smoothness / responsiveness, but it's not a cheap option.   

2 hours ago, Colin170CR said:

It can be very tricky getting into a gap on a roundabout as there seems to be a large delay between right foot pressure & actual forward motion at the speed needed.

 

Same Karoq 1.5 TSI 4x4 DSG and same disappointing behaviour, albeit that's my only complaint.

For me, the use of Auto Hold helps a lot. I can press the throttle in advance with more confidence since there is no more creeping between standstill and pull proper.

 

Edited 29 September, 20214 yr by agedbriar

I just need the confidence on the auto hold and then I think it will click into place

27 minutes ago, Dazm said:

I just need the confidence on the auto hold and then I think it will click into place

Auto hold is great. I just give the brake a heavier press once stationary and then let go.

The dash will confirm it is engaged.

 

As for (my) judder when pulling away, I am fully aware that a hefty right foot will cause wheel spin from a standing start.

What I experienced had nothing to do with tyres or loss of grip.

The roughness occurred at what could be described as little more than snails pace, in fact if auto hold had not been engaged then the old fashioned method of pulling away, where one had their foot on the brake and just let the car pull away on idle speed by gradually releasing pressure would not have caused any ‘judder’.

The fact that I had to apply some accelerator to overcome the brake may well be a contributory factor.

 

Over the years I have driven vehicles with almost every type of transmission ever designed, from HGV / PSV crash boxes, to fully synchromeshed, then semi auto (with and without pre select) to fully automatic cars / buses and fire appliances. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what causes wheel spin and what doesn’t.

I also how an auto when travelling so over the last five years got plenty of practice,  but having one as a hire car,  and one as my car i am off course more concerned abusing mine 😅 

Perhaps I should reassess Autohold then.  I had decided I didn't like using it, not very long after getting my Karoq.  I recall, in conjunction with stop/start, it seemed to make starting from standstill a bit sudden, on top of the modest jolt that stop/start sends through the car.  But if I'm wanting to make a quick getaway say into a busy main road from a T junction it might be the best option.  I wonder if it can be used without engaging stop/start.

11 minutes ago, croquemonsieur said:

Perhaps I should reassess Autohold then.  I had decided I didn't like using it, not very long after getting my Karoq.  I recall, in conjunction with stop/start, it seemed to make starting from standstill a bit sudden, on top of the modest jolt that stop/start sends through the car.  But if I'm wanting to make a quick getaway say into a busy main road from a T junction it might be the best option.  I wonder if it can be used without engaging stop/start.

I most certainly can.  I use it daily and always turn off stop/start at the outset of my journey (if I remember) or at the first annoying stop if I forget.

Autohold is a "Godsend" in my books.

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Eco Mode softens the throttle response. 

 

tom

4 hours ago, smipx said:

I most certainly can.  I use it daily and always turn off stop/start at the outset of my journey (if I remember) or at the first annoying stop if I forget.

Autohold is a "Godsend" in my books.

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Same here.

But I do turn off Auto Hold before parking for the night on level ground in winter, lest the breaks might freeze up.

'Autohold' should not be on / acting on the brakes when you have switched off the ignition, unfastened your seat belt and opened the drivers door.

It is the e-Brake you need to have off incase of freezing.    That is the rear brakes unlike 'Autohold; which has all the brakes held by the calipers / pads.

When the car is parked with Auto Hold on, the latter it's automatically replaced by the parking brake (P) function.

Exactly my point. 

 

Autohold off, e-Brake / parking brake then on rear brakes and you then switch off the Parking Brake.  Just as you would if you needed to push the car, 

or service the brakes.

 

Different Buttons on Different Vehicles, but it is the e-Brake / Parking brake you are not having on when parked, no point in touching the Autohold other than for Enabling or disabling. 

 

Edited 30 September, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot