I don't mean in snow or ice conditions with temperatures below zero for example as -20 C but on a typical cold day in the morning as you are about to leave the parking lot to go work, how much time you let the engine idling?

15 sec, 30 sec, 1 minute? More?

 

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/benefits-of-warming-up-your-car-how-long-is-too-long/

 

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/communities-infrastructure/transportation/idling/4463

 

On that short period what is best for our Old technology engine, a Synthetic or a Semi synthetic oil?

 

 

 

 

With my Fabia, I tend to drive it gently until up to temp, where I'll rag it a little more...

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

how much time you let the engine idling?

The best way to warm an engine is to drive the car. Idling slows warm-up, and potentially washes the bores with petrol.

13 hours ago, KenONeill said:

The best way to warm an engine is to drive the car.

 

No matter the weather you just turn the key and the next second you put the gear on?

There isn't a difference between an old design motor like ours with a new one on this sector?

34 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

No matter the weather you just turn the key and the next second you put the gear on?

There isn't a difference between an old design motor like ours with a new one on this sector?

Correct.

 

If you doubt my logic, then, in moderate weather, do these things:-

1. Start the engine, drive off, and keep a note of how long the engine takes to reach normal operating temperature.
2. Start the engine and leave idling until it reaches normal operating temperature.

See how much faster (1) was?

14 hours ago, KenONeill said:

The best way to warm an engine is to drive the car. Idling slows warm-up, and potentially washes the bores with petrol.

I heard this too. I used to wait a minute or more before moving but now I only wait maybe 10-15 seconds after starting the engine. That's only for let the engine lubricate itself.

LPG has other importance too. LPG evaporator depends on engine heat to do it's job. Evaporate. From what I read, at least 30ºC is required for LPG evaporator to convert liquid LPG to gas efficiently. Cold evaporator means, liquid LPG will pour into the engine leading to terrible MPG.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

until it reaches normal operating temperature.

This does not coming after a minute, it takes longer.

The type of engine oil plays till that time a crucial part or no?

When the motor starts while you standing and few rev ups with gentle pedal pushings won't help a bit?

 

2 hours ago, R_Blue said:

LPG evaporator depends on engine heat to do it's job. Evaporate. From what I read, at least 30ºC is required for LPG evaporator to convert liquid LPG to gas efficiently. Cold evaporator means, liquid LPG will pour into the engine leading to terrible MPG.

This is why you should start a dual fuel engine on on petrol, then switch to LPG after the engine starts to warm.

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

This does not coming after a minute, it takes longer.

The type of engine oil plays till that time a crucial part or no?

When the motor starts while you standing and few rev ups with gentle pedal pushings won't help a bit?

 

I didn't say it did "only take a minute". I said that the warm-up is shortest if you start the engine and drive off.

@KenONeill : The type of engine oil plays till that time a crucial part or no?

Well my father just starts it and goes on his marry way. Lpg cuts in bout a minute later. 

Mpi runs veryyyy rich when cold so you better not let them idle as your cat is going to strain a lot. 

I on the other hand have a starting ritual. 

Turn the ignition on run position wait for the pump to prime. 

Then start the car with the barely minimum cranking. 

Let the idle stabilise it can take from 5 secs up to 20 secs then the car is fine for me. 

Even for my diesel mito 30 secs is absolutely fine. 

I run castrol gtx 15w-40 on the felly 

Like @Thefeliciahacker says. Just short time necessary to let engine stabilise and go, with very light driving until it warms up.

 

in winter, I started the engine before cleaning windows, so I had at least some heating available once I sat in the car.

 

13 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

 

Mpi runs veryyyy rich when cold so you better not let them idle as your cat is going to strain a lot. 

 

 

 

 

At 1:16 says about a 24 year old car, a Toyota Celica.

 

13 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

Turn the ignition on run position wait for the pump to prime. 

Then start the car with the barely minimum cranking. 

Let the idle stabilise it can take from 5 secs up to 20 secs then the car is fine for me. 

 

I press the clutch and when it cranks i let him, they have told me that this reduces the load at the ignition time.

19 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

I press the clutch and when it cranks i let him, they have told me that this reduces the load at the ignition time.

Yes; it means that the starter motor isn't turning the gearbox input shaft.

47 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I press the clutch and when it cranks i let him, they have told me that this reduces the load at the ignition time.

 

This was ONLY way to start our Estelle in winter. Oil in gearbox became so thick, that it stalled the engine if clutch was released too quickly. 

I don't depress the clutch and I've never heard the stater slow down 

This is a photo from a relative video (Should You Warm Up Your Car Before Driving? )

and i want to ask: those very important moments (from the time that the key turns on till the time that the temperature reaches the proper point) the synthetic oil is better than the semi-synthetic for our Felicia?

Nice and easy driving, no sudden acceleration etc so with which oil our Old car will has less problems as engine wear, increased fuel consumption, etc?

With your modern, only 21 years old car, this is what I'd do being used to cars twice that age plus on a cold but not very cold day say 5c (41f) without too much wind chill.

 

Switch the ignition on whilst putting my seatbelt on and check all the warning lights light up, start the car, check all the warning lights go out, see if the fuel gauge needle has risen above a required minimum and listen for unusual sounds, let the idle settle or remain level , then pull off.  Letting the idle settle or remain level may take 5 or 10 (or more or less).  I find my wife's 2016 Fabia takes a lot long to settle the idle from cold as all the over-complicated VW computer programs compete with each other, they can be 20 seconds plus to settle which is fine because the windscreen is still missed because of all the cabin glass despite Pingis, synthetic chamois, directing the sun visors I don't turn on the electrics including the car's blower, heater and aircon until after the idle has settled - all hail the computers. 

 

For Scotty Kilmer you must bear in mind that generally he refers to things as they are in the USA not Europe.

 

Synthetic oil is generally a marketing term for oil, a good oil is a good oil, but some oils are better than others, generally a good "synthetic" will offer better working and protection characteristics and for longer.  Also the numbers for the oil 10w and 30 are within ranges so can A of 10w30 may be "thicker" than can B 10w-30 (see chart below, SAE crank case column) which may be useful or not depending on the circumstances, or may make very little difference as to be of no matter.

 

The engine wear is a lot from actually starting the engine, the oil will be less contaminated once it reaches its proper operating temperature, for the engine (car) and engine oil so the quicker it gets there the better (within reason).  This relies on the engine cooling systems of the "water" side and oil side, both are best with thermostat control to speed up the engine warming by not having the cooling systems working fully to cool a cold engine (you do not have to worry about an engine driven cooling fan though).

 

A couple of friends swear by Castol Magnatex, one in his 1960s car the other in his 1996 sports car, I prefer to use a local oil blender's products.

 

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by nta16

38 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Letting the idle settle or remain level may take 5 or 10 (or more or less).

 

The needle rise up at 1100 rpm as it should be but the problem is that it takes too much time to lower at 850 rpm which is the proper limit.

You will say just wait 20 sec and then start driving the car, yes but: I have made 3 times a test, the car was on a parking 5 floors below earth and the temperature of course was not as 12 'C as is outside the road but one clich higher.

I started the car, waited 15 sec and engage the 1th gear, the car started to roll (the rpm were about 1100) and without touching the pedal started rolling to the exit, it moved 4 floors then exited (thanfully no traffic) and still rolled byhimself without me touching the pedal !!!

I reached the end of the block, i accelerate gently to 2nth gear and when i stopped in the traffic light i noticed smoke coming from the exhaust wich means the fumes were still cold.

When the traffic light turn to green i started, 2nth gear and as i reached the end of a small uphill then in the next traffic light the idle was 850 rpm.

Something is going on and i don't know what, it takes too much time from the 1100 rpm to drop down to 850 rpm.

1100 doesn't sound bad to me (assuming the read is accurate), is the car park damp at that level?

 

It might be that you are taking it too steady, give yourself a few seconds to check everything before pulling away and then drive it a bit brisker get the revs up from 1100, don't accelerate gently to 2nd but briskly, don't pull away in 2nd but 1st.  The economy is from getting into the highest gear briskly, allow for condition of engine car and driving.  You want to warm the engine and car but without being harsh on them.

 

My long wait on the modern car is to allow the computer programs to stop arguing with each other, being a VAG product probably over how much to cheat emissions and mpg.

 

Is the smoke from the exhaust condensation, petrol or oil?  What does it smell like?

 

The exhaust smoke may be more noticeable because of the underground car park, try parking on the 1st floor and see if the exhaust smoke is still noticeable when you are out of the car park and for how long.

 

You have a 20+ year old car to expect it to be as per book when new might be difficult, there is wear, tear and age, also perhaps the fuel sold has changed and you may be using different parts than factory standard.

 

All this assumes your car is fully and timely serviced, maintained and repaired and that it is virtually factory standard, if not then what has been altered, improved/upgraded?

 

My carbs idle at about an indicated 1,000 in summer, more if given a run, the book IIRC is 700 but if the needle was there the tickover would be very rough but my car is 48 years old and not as it left the factory (hopefully some bit better than 1970s certainly the oil and ignition.  I used to worry about getting the idle down but there is no law to say how high it should be and sitting at idle is bad for the engine so I do it as little as possible so now I don't worry  and prefer it higher to move the water pump more whilst stationary as I have removed the engine driven fan.

 

Edited 18 November, 20214 yr by nta16

10 hours ago, nta16 said:

You have a 20+ year old car to expect it to be as per book when new might be difficult, there is wear, tear and age, also perhaps the fuel sold has changed and you may be using different parts than factory standard.

 

All this assumes your car is fully and timely serviced, maintained and repaired and that it is virtually factory standard, if not then what has been altered, improved/upgraded?

 

For sure nothing is now as it was when i bought it but yesterday i done another test.

The car was on the parking P10, turn the car on wait 15 sec, engage 1st gear and let it roll alone, the car start moving rolling to P7, P5, P3 (i don't touched the pedal) and when i reached the exit i let it steady to idle in purpose

The needle was on 1100 rpm, i waited and when it dropped to 850 the timer on my cellphone shown 3:44 minutes, isn't that too much?

 

Service, maintenance, repairs etc have been with a lot of attention and VAG code parts, no sloppy work.

Any upgrades were till 2018, suddenly my car needs a lot of time to get warm (thus the little smoke on the first traffic light) and that means fuel consumption.

The TC-6 shown 2,6 litres per hour when the car started and after 3,44 minutes shown 0,9 which is one click before the 0,8 litre per hour (that's the number when the car is warm and the idle is 850 rpm).

So what happened in 2018?

 

Is this TC-6 some sort of plug in monitoring electronic monitoring device, if so where does it plug in and how long can it safely be plugged in without causing problems?  Any testing equipment needs to be tested itself to check it is working and its accuracy, ideally before every use, has it been used on another vehicle to verify how accurate it is?

 

The time does not sound bad to me - but I am not a mechanic or expert in anything - but the amount of fuel seems a lot.  If it was a carb you would check the choke settings, the choke cable and any linkages and give everything a good clean and lubricate but with these dumb computer programs running the show it can be more awkward, will a scan tool give you much information on a 2000 car.  As I remember it  the coolant sensor and lambda sensor were favourites for playing up but it might also be whatever regulates your fuel, I am a big fan of removing the MAF and spray cleaning with the correct cleaner and the same for the throttle body.  If you have not done either of these since 2018 it might be worthwhile and particularly the throttle body for this issue perhaps.

 

Anything to do with car computers I always think of checking that the car's battery and connections are in good condition and that the battery is really in a good state of charge and that does not just mean the car starts and the lights seem bright.

 

With the sensors for the dumb computers they need to be clean and the electric wires and connector clean, secure and protected, a bit of crud on electrics can cause all sorts of issues that a bit of damp or wet could exasperate.

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

So what happened in 2018?

 

Is this TC-6 some sort of plug in monitoring electronic monitoring device

 

Suddenly in city (traffic) my Felicia started to have much more fuel consumptipn than all the other years.

Especially from starting point till the temperature comes up to the propel lever i felt that something was going wrong.

Smell (fumes) and sort of white smoke much more time than it should be.

 

TC-6 is a board computer, among others shows the instant fuell consumption no matter if it's idle or top speed.

 

You can see mine here:

Maf-Lamda-temperature temperature sensor are new, throttle is clean,battery is good, valves and spark plugs are ok.

I "raise" my Felicia with synthetic oil so maybe she don't like the semisynthetic that i was using for 2 years.

😋

 

Were any of the new sensors fitted before the 2018 city traffic issue started?

 

You seem to be well on top of things generally.

 

What synthetic and semi-synthetic oils did you use, make, model and grade?  My engine is from 1959 design and (probably) built in the 1970s and I've used Mobil 1 and other local synthetic oils in it for many years as I have in other "classic" (over-priced and over-valued) cars I have owned and used and the synthetic oils have kept the engines well  with real world regular use well despite other "classic" car owners telling me it would ruin the engines.

 

Edited 19 November, 20214 yr by nta16

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Were any of the new sensors fitted before the 2018 city traffic issue started?

 

What synthetic and semi-synthetic oils did you use, make, model and grade? 

 

 

After the 2018 trying to solve the problem i changed the 3 sensors (2 of them were in bad shape)

I correct the valves gap (was wrong) and i have found a mistake on the spark plugs reference = bad fuel combustion and bad mileage.

The fuel consumptoin was improved plus the acceleration, the only thing that remained was the behaviour on the cold start.

 

I began with the factory oil, then semisynthetic (i was inside the quarantee period so i took whatever the Skoda authorized mechanic put) but later i turned to synthetics (with one mistake with Motul Ester oil) as Valvoline and for years i had Amsoil.

Then i put Castrol seminynthetic but i regret it, i didn't like the noise of the engine plus in higher rpm when i was driving ''sport style'' in mountain roads.

Now i have Motul Technosynthese and i have noticed a difference with previous Castrol oil and today i will do another ''parking test'' with timer beside.

I already have done another one when i was coming to work (the car was outside in cold weather) and i will have another one at weekend when i will travel in national road after so many months.

The moment of truth is near....