How much time do you warm-up your Felicia?

[nta16]

Well you done the right thing, start with valve clearances, then plugs, ignition parts and on to timing.

 

Motul ester(?) would be full synthetic if ester, so why was it a mistake?

 

Did you change the weight/grade of the oil?

 

Have you ever tried disconnecting the car's battery overnight or more, taking the opportunity to fully give it a long slow and low recharge, as this may rest the air/fuel (and other items) and if everything is still very clean engine wise (all sensors, oil & filter, air filter, plugs, etc.  (or you could clean them again).

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

Man calm down what you are seeing is normal and absolutely fine. 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

54 minutes ago, nta16 said:

 

Motul ester(?) would be full synthetic if ester, so why was it a mistake?

 

Did you change the weight/grade of the oil?

 

Have you ever tried disconnecting the car's battery overnight or more

 

Because they are made for sport-racing use and not for every day, they don't have the additives of other oils.

They are red colour and after a while you can hear the valves "ticking" plus pustons-bores became redish.

 

I have done once test with 5W-40 oil but i wasn't happy and i stop it.

For the last 15 years i use 10W-40 only.

 

From 2018 i have made many ECU resets, battery rest, sensor plug and unplug tries etc bur i haven't reach the fuel consumption of the past.

 

I hane the ECU chipped about 17 years ago and maybe there is a "bug" on the programme or needs to be updated or rhe ECU's cold start sector has problem or...i don't know what else to do !

 

 

[KenONeill]

27 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I have done once test with 5W-40 oil but i wasn't happy and i stop it.

Why? The most obvious difference between a 5W and a 10W oil is that the 5W flows faster on a cold start, so you get pressure sooner. I used Mobil 1 0W-30 in my Citroens and there I would get the oil pressure light going out before the engine even fired.

[nta16]

39 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I hane the ECU chipped about 17 years ago and maybe there is a "bug" on the programme or needs to be updated or rhe ECU's cold start sector has problem or...i don't know what else to do !

No wonder it's been like pulling teeth to get info, I did ask before, all starting to add up now.

 

No point setting the car to standard when it's been taken away from standard, the only way to know if it's the chip at fault is to remove it from the equation, if it's the old piggy-back type chip that can be removed then do so and set the car up to standard, that's if the spark plugs and other parts are still to standard. Then see how the car runs and if the fault persists from that point.  If the fault is not there then if you want conformation put the chip back on and settings back to how they were with the chip and see if the fault returns.

 

To get extra performance with chips they reduce the parameters that the car manufacturer has put in which can be fine whilst everything is not too worn or aged and provided nothing throws up a fault that alters or eats further into the parameters.

 

 

39 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Because they are made for sport-racing use and not for every day, they don't have the additives of other oils.

They are red colour and after a while you can hear the valves "ticking" plus pustons-bores became redish.

This depends on the particular oil and what sort of racing it's designed for, I use a race/rally/sports oil in my car that I only road use, the oil has all the additives required for road use and more, the quality means I have wider parameters of protection from that oil, my engine doesn't need to be race hot for the oil to work or give the added protection.

 

If where you are gets below freezing then a good quality 5w-40 will be better than the same stuff in 10w-40 (see the chart), it may be that a 5w-30 or 10w-30 may be good for your climate, what does it suggest in your Driver's Handbook for your engine and location.

 

Some oils are "thinner" than others so the "tappets" can be heard more (tapping) , this does not necessarily mean there is a problem if the oil is of good quality and the correct grade/weight for use and as these old design of engines get older and used you might hear the noise more that's just wear, tear and age (like my knee, elbow, wrist, fingers).

 

Edited 19 November, 2021 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

11 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Why? The most obvious difference between a 5W and a 10W oil is that the 5W flows faster on a cold start, so you get pressure sooner. I used Mobil 1 0W-30 in my Citroens and there I would get the oil pressure light going out before the engine even fired.

 

Yes but Felicia's motor is an old design and the manufacturer suggests semi synthetic 10W-40.

I took the risk to put 5W-40 but i heard the motor more ''noisy" while idling and i was afraid that i may do some kind of damage due to the tolerance that this old motor has.

Back those days i wasn't member in any forum and i had no information than the Haynes manual so it was a risk for me to take such a decision and continue use it.

 

11 hours ago, nta16 said:

No wonder it's been like pulling teeth to get info, I did ask before, all starting to add up now.

 

Sorry but i have mention it many times and i thought you knew it.

My car is modified in many sectors (motor-suspension-wheels-insulation-lights-interior etc) but with caution and no exaggerations.

My problem is that after spring of 2018 (with all the modification installed years ago) suddenly started to have much more fuel consumption (in city driving only) than previous.

____________________________

 

Cold start test:  Yesterday morning the car was parked outside all night long, he had light rain and cold here with 12 'C, i wanted to count the time that the motor will return from 1100 rpm to 850 rpm

Turn the key and pushed the time's button on the smartphone but after few seconds my Felicia was ready to go ! I started driving nice and easy and when arrived at work i park it again in the same spot as previous time, 5 floors below.

After i finished my shift i turned the key and my Felicia needed 3:40 minutes to come back to normal 850 rpm and the question is WHY?

Out with cold air was ready after few seconds and later in the basement with higher temperature took so long? The ''metals" were cold because she was outside all night long and after 8 hours those ''metals" needed so much time?

Maf, λ sensor, temperature sensor etc are new so why the motor needs more time to get warmed when the conditions are better?

 

 

 

 

 

[Papez]

21 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Maf-Lamda-temperature temperature sensor are new

 What brand of lambda did you use? Also, did you change gasket between exhaust manifold and head?

 

22 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Felicia needed 3:40 minutes to come back to normal 850 rpm and the question is WHY?

 

This function of higher idle RPM seems to be based on temperature - it generally took longer to settle in winter, than in summer. So I'd try temp sensors readings, thermostat valve function and lambda heater. Plus, one interesting thing, I could often "kick down" rpm by tapping gas pedal, often shortly after starting.

 

12 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

From 2018 i have made many ECU resets

How do you perform an ECU reset?

Edited 20 November, 2021 by Papez

[D.FYLAKTOS]

1 hour ago, Papez said:

 What brand of lambda did you use? Also, did you change gasket between exhaust manifold and head?

 

 

This function of higher idle RPM seems to be based on temperature - it generally took longer to settle in winter, than in summer. So I'd try temp sensors readings, thermostat valve function and lambda heater. Plus, one interesting thing, I could often "kick down" rpm by tapping gas pedal, often shortly after starting.

 

How do you perform an ECU reset?

 

Bosch.

No it's the stock, maybe there is a leak from here?

 

I have tested 3 times with 3 different instruments in 2 different garage-shops, no code errors.

Even today with colder weather my Felicia turn to 850 rpm in few seconds, in the basement parked for 8 hours with much better temperatures (and not so cold ''metals") took 3:40+ second for two times.

It's the density of air the problem?

 

Many times this way:

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=499344&content_commentid=5603362

 

1 hour ago, Papez said:

Plus, one interesting thing, I could often "kick down" rpm by tapping gas pedal, often shortly after starting.

 

This will not raise the fuel consumption and increase the wear of the cylinder bore in a cold motor?

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, Papez said:

This function of higher idle RPM seems to be based on temperature - it generally took longer to settle in winter, than in summer.

Big hint - The ambient temperature is lower in Winter.

[nta16]

D.FYLAKTOS, for the oil, semi-synthetic and for many oils synthetic is more of a marketing term, perhaps when your Haynes was written there were less "synthetic" oils available plus often Haynes is sponsored by a particular oil brand so will obviously promote the products available from this brand. - and finally Haynes books often have errors and omissions, I have two for my car and published 1974 and 1982 and neither are fully correct for my 1973 model, do not take them as gospel.

 

Oils have improved since 1960 and even 2000.  The more noise from the 5w40 may partly be because of 5w instead of 10w but also because of change of oil make and/or model or type of oil.  hearing the noise more may be a good thing as it might mean the oil isn't "thick" from cold so not flowing so well and not muffling the sound with a thick blanket of oil.  It's all about the oil flowing correctly as soon as possible and what lubrication and protection is being given - and yes sometimes the "thinner" oil does give more noise but you soon get used to the level and you no longer hear it some much unless the noise changes.

 

If you think 12c is cold then you probably don't need 5W in your car but it will not hurt the car if the correct good quality oil is used.

 

As for tapping on the pedal to get the revs to drop at idle, that's fine, I'd forgotten about that being on carbs for so long, it is like a gentle nudge as a reminder.

 

The car park is a different climate to outside and the density of the air, try standing next to your car before you start it in the car park and take a deep long breath in through your nose, then do the same in the morning outside see which gives your body the faster reaction.

 

[nta16]

28 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I have tested 3 times with 3 different instruments in 2 different garage-shops, no code errors.

You would need a scan tool specific to your model and year of car to get much information.  A year 2000 car is more difficult to find on general scan tools now and with any car at any age just because an error code it does not mean that there is not an error as it could be still within the acceptable range not to give and error code and/or the issue is mechanical not electronic as such.  There could be a more than one issue that does not give error codes and any combination or permutation of these could result in an issue or various issues.

 

Also I have no idea but wonder if the chip you have added might affect any readings or might have extended the parameter of reporting an error(?).

 

Modifying the car is not a bad thing and can improve it if all done correctly but there are so many variables to the running of a 20+ year old car and you have widened these with taking the car away from standard.

 

I think photos of your engine bay, the front of your car including the bonnet and both front wings may help here.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

35 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Haynes books often have errors and omissions,

do not take them as gospel.

 

You are right, when the internet came (and the auto forums) the situation changed, the sad thing is that there are not many Felicia here plus those few that they have them are older age and don't care about many things so you can not rely on them for informations.

The tuning magazines don't write about Felicia, many new mechanics don't now many about them and the only source is forum like this because even in 2 Greek Skoda forum you won't find members with Felicia, everybody has Fabia-Octavia or newest models.

 

36 minutes ago, nta16 said:

If you think 12c is cold then you probably don't need 5W in your car but it will not hurt the car if the correct good quality oil is used.

 

The lowest here was many years ago -4 'C, usually we have 8-10 'C for winter morning and snows very rarely.

 

21 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Also I have no idea but wonder if the chip you have added might affect any readings or might have extended the parameter of reporting an error(?).

 

About 12 years ago my throttle had a problem and the scanner show it, when i installed the new my mechanic run the scan tool, erase and error and sine then OK.

I can not "put my hand over the fire" if the chip block some error codes but i have changed so many things that i wonder what can be wrong now? (i don't have change the gear box and the crank sensor)

[Thefeliciahacker]

7 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Plus, one interesting thing, I could often "kick down" rpm by tapping gas pedal, often shortly after starting.

that is exactly what i do

[D.FYLAKTOS]

8 hours ago, Papez said:

Plus, one interesting thing, I could often "kick down" rpm by tapping gas pedal, often shortly after starting.

 

Is this good or it's an exaggeration?

 

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

that is exactly what i do

 

Even on winter mornings?

[Thefeliciahacker]

Just now, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Even on winter mornings?

I mean moving off is the same thing i just blip it to 1500rpm or set off and after a few meters its going to be back to 850 rpm idle.

[nta16]

D.FYLAKTOS, there will not be many like yourself interested in modifying a 2000 Felicia but there are plenty who are interested in modifying old cars and the general principles tend to be the same regardless of make and particular models obviously not to exact same details but 80s and 90s cars had a lot of similarities, many still with basically 60s and 70s elements.

 

In the UK there is now a good following for everyday cars of 20 and 30 years ago and back further but many, certainly not all though, owners are learning about their cars as they go along so like ALL forms of information you have to carefully check and confirm the information.

 

I often make many mistakes, get mixed up and forget, a lot, and I am not a mechanic or expert in anything, so always need checking.

 

Even at -10c  10W would be fine as would a good quality 15w and perhaps you could use 30 instead of 40 in your climate but I do not know that, what does the original Driver's (Owner's) Manual for a 2000 Felicia in Greece or garage or cars parts shop information give as options for oil that you could use?

 

("Thinner" oil will possibly make more valve noise but will reduce internal engine resistance making the engine a little more efficient and perhaps give a very small increase in fuel l/km.)

 

Scan Tools have improved a lot in very recent times with the electronic information they give and what you can do with them but of course they can not find electronic information the car does not give because of the age of its systems.

 

I, like others, am not sure that you have any problem, you could try after starting the car in the car park tapping the accelerator pedal to drop the idle before driving off, you can experiment with how long you leave the revs at 1100 before you tap the pedal to se what suits the car and you the best.  Personally I would wait about 10 seconds while I check the car from the driver's seat with my eyes, ears (and even perhaps nose and mouth, try that breathing through your nose deeply and slowly and out through your mouth in the car park and in fresh air).

 

Good luck.

 

 

[nta16]

46 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Is this good or it's an exaggeration?

No it's not good, that's gross exaggeration, what we call in this country "willy-waving"  - penis waving, look at me, my car is louder, more expensive than yours, therefore I as the owner must be better than you.  Same as the long bonnets on cars are known as "penis extensions" for various meanings.  Those cars have deliberately loud exhausts from the manufacturers and often made even louder by some owners.  Of course we all show-off at times just some much more than others and some in more anti-social ways than others.

 

I have an exhaust that is too loud so I am not innocent.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

25 minutes ago, nta16 said:

what does the original Driver's (Owner's) Manual for a 2000 Felicia in Greece or garage or cars parts shop information give as options for oil that you could use?

 

They suggest semi synthetic 10W-40 and some say 15W-40 because ''it's old motor with lot of tolerances" etc.

If you say ''i am using 10W-40 Synthetic" some will say that there is no need, it's extra money spend, it's going to burned easily etc but maybe none of them has Felicia now.

As for the 5W-40 they will say that it's too thin, the motor would be noisy etc.

In the past there were some guys which racing with Felicia but is extremely difficult to find and ask them.

 

25 minutes ago, nta16 said:

you could try after starting the car in the car park tapping the accelerator pedal to drop the idle before driving off, you can experiment with how long you leave the revs at 1100 before you tap the pedal to se what suits the car and you the best. 

 

Outside in the road i have no problem, maybe in closed areas as the parking at work due to the sparse-not dense air my Trusty is grouching.

Very soon i will have the chance to test my TC-6 on a highway plus measure the fuel combustion while travelling.

[nta16]

D.FYLAKTOS, I was told 25+ years ago NOT to use fully synthetic Mobil 1 in my "classic" cars (over-priced and over-valued old cars) by "classic" car owners that had cars that barely moved a wheel year round, my 1960s and 1970s  "classics" were used daily for commuting to work, 300 and 500 miles a week at one time, plus daily use, plus for work at other times, plus for club weekend tours, plus day club runs, plus club events, plus holidays in the UK and long weekends sometimes in Europe.  I put thousands of miles a year on each car and at times I had more than one classic at a time.  I was told it would ruin my engines, it did not the engines were as far as I know still going strong with the new owners many years or decades later.  I was told Mobil 1 use would rot my teeth and steal my looks, I still have all my own teeth and still have my looks!

 

I use a different, local blender, oil in my 1973 "classic" now but it is called a fully synthetic.

 

Never mind what they say, what does the original Driver's Handbook (Owner's Manual) that came with the car from Skoda when the car was brand new say the engine oil options are, if any, for your car, in Greece?  And any oil specification, like with the modern Fabias (VW 5xxxxx)?

 

What is the hottest weather temperature you get where yo travel?

 

What is the hottest oil temperature/coolant temperature you have recorded in your car?

 

Do you have oil temperature and/or oil pressure gauge(s), if so what has been their highest and lowest readings?

 

If you do not have these gauges how much do you think you would worry about their readings if you did? 

 

Without going into boring detail a semi-synthetic and ordinary/standard mineral oil may not be a lot different, a good quality mineral oil could be better than a low quality semi synthetic oil.  A synthetic oil and semi-synthetic oil may not be a lot different, a good quality semi-synthetic could be better than a low quality synthetic oil.

 

What you need is an oil suitable to your engine and your needs, or perhaps wants.  The oil needs to be of good quality base oil and a good quality oil additives package that suits your engine.  What is available today is a much wider and better range than 21 years ago so you have more choice.

 

As long as the oil does the correct job for your engine in your circumstances then that is fine, only you can decide what is a a waste after that, if you want greater protection and performance from the oil then it is up to you when it becomes money wasted.

 

Often want is needed for a race car is not suitable for a road (or fast road) car use, much can depend on the type and level of the racing, a car that is for track use only can be hopeless for road use and a standard or fast road car would be hopeless against that track car on a track.

 

I will put again try that breathing through your nose first thing in the morning outside before getting into the car and again before getting into the car when parked underground, the engine needs air just like you and the variances of the air effect you and the engine.

 

Use your TC-6 as a useful guide tool but do not become a slave to it, only check when really required, you do not want to be forever testing the car you want to be driving it, concentrating on your driving and even perhaps enjoying your driving after all the time. money and effort you have put into your car.

 

Digital gauges are giving you a level of precision that may not match the accuracy and constancy of a car from 2000 that is now 21 years old.

 

Much fuel saving comes from driver training and driving techniques which will be effective regardless of what's on the car.

 

Edited 20 November, 2021 by nta16

[AnnoyingPentium]

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

a car from 2000 that is now 21 years old.

 

If not older, actually, since it's an old design engine revised for when the Felicia came out (was it around 1994, no?).

[RicardoM]

Skoda recommends to start driving immediately but without going to town with revving. Normally the engine will warm up in about 5 minutes. Then you can go to rally with this small family car.

[nta16]

Both good points.

 

Also to consider (unless I've missed it) is that the engine might not be original to the car or of original type to the car and whilst I am a gospel of the good books of the Driver's Handbook / Owner's Manual you must always bear in mind that the books were written in their time and not the present and referring to a factory standard car that is new, allowing for some aging and wearing but I can't remember any Service Record books going to 20 years, well not the cars I had we had anyway.  What is available today might not have been available, or readily available, back then.

 

Also this car and engine has been modified.

 

The Driver's Handbooks usually say something like it's best not to leave the car idling and to drive off but I don not think 5 or 10 seconds before pulling away will do too much damage, it's not the same as leaving the engine running whilst the car heats up and/or whilst clearing the windows or car of water, frost or snow.

 

I am not sure D. Fylatos would cope with a Fabia Mk3 as all the computers interfering often has the engine idle running rough from a cold start up, the scan tool would permanently be on dash (sorry, D. only joking).

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Sorry gentlemen i am on the move, i write via my smartphone.

I will answer soon as posible.

I will post some photos too.

[Papez]

On 20/11/2021 at 12:53, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

Bosch.

No it's the stock, maybe there is a leak from here?

 

I have tested 3 times with 3 different instruments in 2 different garage-shops, no code errors.

 

Iirc, original supplier was NGK, and Bosch units were reported as less reliable. If the sensor won't fail entirely, it won't generate an error code, it requires skilled technician and maybe even exhaust gas probe to check proper function.

 

On 20/11/2021 at 20:23, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Is this good or it's an exaggeration?

 

By tapping I meant that idle almost doesn't increase - it seems that deactivation of idle switch in throttle body is enough.

Edited 24 November, 2021 by Papez

[D.FYLAKTOS]

8 hours ago, Papez said:

 

original supplier was NGK, and Bosch units were reported as less reliable. If the sensor won't fail entirely, it won't generate an error code, it requires skilled technician and maybe even exhaust gas probe to check proper function.

 

 

By tapping I meant that idle almost doesn't increase - it seems that deactivation of idle switch in throttle body is enough.

 

I have the original back home, didn't had engraved the initials of NGK only the Skoda code.

My Felicia passed with this new Bosch Lamda 2 emission tests, one was in a garage at April 2021 when i asked for it in purpose and the second was in mandatory inspection (department of transportation) August 2021.

I have photo plus the printed numbers from DoT, in few days i would post them.

 

One strange thing happened, early morning with temperature around 8 'C and lot of moisture, turned the key the car started with idle around 950 rpm, in few seconds dropped at 850 rpm and i start my jurney.

Arrived after 45 minutes, done some jobs and when i entered my car with one click higher temperature i turned the key and the needle went at 1100 rpm but i didn't wanted to wait.

I tapped the pedal once and i start rolling.

 

Maybe my Trusty loves only morning cold startings.