Press cars maybe used like Fleet / Lease drivers might use them.

As some might charge.

 

 

OK it was the miles per hour that confused me, they meany miles of range per charging hour.

 

Aérodynamic efficiency can only be a fraction of a percent different between any current vehicle whatever the power source, all the gains have already been made in the last 40 years, a smaller frontal area will always consume less fuel for a given drag coefficient.

 

Like you I don't think that Brand X's electric motor can be significantly more efficient than Brand Y, Unless someone can explain it to me then I can't see how a battery management system or different regenerative braking can make such a quantum difference to how many miles a vehicle can travel per kwatt of energy.

 

I think all the manufacturers are having a larf with their miles per kwatt figures, some much more so than others and all the motoring journalists and influencers are their paid mouthpieces.

6 hours ago, roottoot said:

They really must be very efficient. 

Where has it gone so wrong with EV's since then?

If Ioniq drivers were just doing rapid charging to 80% to have Rapid / Quick charge sessions then that would be 20 kWh only of a 28 kWh usable battery.

If the car did do 5.5 miles per kWh then that would be a 110 mile range, 

if the were charging and having 25 kWh of use then 137.5.

Lovely stuff.

A very efficient car.   If as efficient with maybe 4 adults or in cold weather then fantastic.

...................... 

an Ioniq 30 kWh is 1,498 kg, 4,470 mm long, 1,450 mm high, & a 2,700 mm Wheel Base.

                             a Corsa-e 50 kWh, 1,530 kg, 4,060 mm long, 1,433 mm high & a 2,538 mm Wheel Base.

Yesterday my Corsa-e did a 40 mile run at 0*oC, 18 miles up into the Angus Glens and back home with just me in the car and the average speed was 33.7 mph going and that was getting 2.7 miles per kWh.

The return was 22 miles more downhill with more regening was an average 31.5 mph and i got 3.1 miles per kWh. 

Amazing stuff with the Ioniq.

 

I think the Ionic full electric is minimalist in all direct and that leads it to being efficient in energy per mile.  Its motor is supposedly 100 Kw and Torque actually quite high but it only does 10 second 0 -60.  It tends to have sensible wheels ie not 17 inch and wider than 205s and that Drag coefficient of 0.25 really helps when one gets over the double nickel of 55 mph.

 

Most other EVs are designed to sell in the showrooms, ie look good with bigger wheels and aggressive bodywork that looks good but actually detracts for good miles per kWh.

 

The Hyundai IONIC was designed to steal sales from the Prius following a similar body shape and trying to sell the hybrid versions but do not think that really took off and I would much rather be in the back of a Prius taxi than a Hyundai one as the Toyota just seems more roomy and proper than the Ionic which just feels more cramped particularly in the back.

 

If they did slot a 45 to 55 kWh battery in there it might be quite awesome but the new ionic ie 38 kWh only charging at 30 kWh when it hits 66% charged is not great and some people preferring the older 28 kWh car for some journeys is weird. Hyundai do not seem to be pouring technical efforts in to plain ionic rather than the 5, shame.  Did consider one but discounts did not seem to be great or finance.  Very good car spoilt by small battery and low summer range but decent winter and cooler weather range through efficient electricity management and aero drag coefficient close to Teslas.  

 

One clear winner, not really Bjorn, all fairly good when consider)

 

 

88kW /  218 lb-ft

 

Edited 27 December, 20214 yr by roottoot

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Like you I don't think that Brand X's electric motor can be significantly more efficient than Brand Y, Unless someone can explain it to me then I can't see how a battery management system or different regenerative braking can make such a quantum difference to how many miles a vehicle can travel per kwatt of energy.

It's very much a case of combination of everything:

- Weight

- Motor technology

- Inverter design

- Heating system

- Heat scavenging features

- Balanced weight vs range

etc

 

Model 3 was on-par with Ioniq 28kWh being the most efficient in 2019/2020. Ioniq 40 kWh is heavier and not as efficient (also charges slower because of lower pack voltage, it was designed to be a 64kWh pack and then downgraded by decreasing number of modules) 2021 Model 3 now has special valve heatpump, allowing it to scavenge heat from rapid charge heated battery instead of using electricity for heating. So now Model 3 and Y are most efficient in its class.

 

Another example, this time on motor: Old Zoe had Q and R motor variants, IIRC there were over 10% efficiency differences, so even though one charges twice the speed at 43 kW instead of 22 kW, it doesn't actually translate to twice driving range between charging.
 

 

Sorry, I meant miles of range per charging hour, which is arguably more useful metric than pure kW. Latter is only useful to calculate cost of charging. If it averages out to be charging at 300 mph, and you have 150 miles to drive, it's easy to see how long you need to charge.

6 hours ago, J.R. said:

miles of range per charging hour.

 

Thanks for that and for opening my eyes to systems like the heat pump recovery.

 

Its time I started learning about these vehicles, I will buy a scrap one and ponce about recelling the battery pack as soon as they are sold at a reasonable price which in my country means never.

Model 3 meaning Tesla?

 

Not everyone, especially me, knows all the acronyms.

 

I have only recently seen what a Tesla looks like, I saw a car in my mirror, it looked modern but with a very low bonnet line, then I saw another from a different angle and made the connection, I only see them on the autoroutes & have never seen one at a standstill.

 

My village has had 3 charging points for maybe 4 years now (state subsidised, sponsored more like) and I have never ever seen a vehicle charging on them, most other villages around here have them as well (they  all love grabbing the subsidies) and never seen a vehicle charging there either, I park next to the charging point at Lidl 2 or 3 times a week, its been there about 4 years again, last week I saw the first ever vehicle charging there.

 

The Renault dealer has those electric single seater s**zwagons with the plastic sidescreens, has saved them a fortune in loan vehicles because everybody decides to walk once they have seen what their vehicule de courtoisie looks like!!!!

A Model 3 always looks quite small to me when i see one moving. 

A Model S  might even be mistaken for a Model 3.

 

There are those that design / build charging hubs with parking spaces not big enough for small EV's to park and the drivers to be able to get their doors open. 

Then big Charging Port Flaps with a charger in can be awkward to get past especially if the car next has one directly opposite.

Passenger side on one car and driver side on the other.

 

Edited 28 December, 20214 yr by roottoot

7 hours ago, roottoot said:

Passenger side on one car and driver side on the other.

You say that like all normal cars have the fuel filler on the same side (or is it just less of an inconvenience when we don't spend several hours at a stretch refuelling?)

I say it in the context of EV,s or hybrids sitting in tight parking spaces with the flaps open.  So a bit different from an ICE vehicle, it is getting between cars when plugged in to stop the charger and unplug. That is after managing to get past to get out to start with.  You might park and there is no issue and get back and there is   You can not always get behind a car because of the cables maybe a foot off the ground.   Long vehicles reversed right back to the charger.    I am often in the car charging and have to get the attention of someone pulling in tight to m you car and ask them to leave room for me to get out.  Or let me come off the charger and look let them in.          Front charge points do lessen the issue.  As do the flap at the rearmost bit of the rear quarter panel.  Rear light area.  They are mostly of wide EV,s though. 

Edited 28 December, 20214 yr by roottoot

3 minutes ago, roottoot said:

I say it in the context of EV,s or hybrids sitting in tight parking spaces with the flaps open.  So a bit different from an ICE vehicle, it is getting between cars when plugged in to stop the charger and unplug. That is after managing to get past to get out to start with.  You might park and there is no issue and get back and there is   You can not always get behind a car because of the cables maybe a foot off the ground.   My long vehicles reversed right back to the charger.    I am often in the car charging and have to get the attention of someone pulling in tight to m you car and ask them to leave room for me to get out.  Or let me come off the charger and look let them in.  

 

I like my charge ports behind the badge on the nose of the car but then I am suppose to reverse in to the parking spaces at work so the parking checkers can see you have the legitimate parking permit to park at Heathrow as we sometimes get public or other LHR visitors/workers thinking they can park in our car park whilst nipping in to Terminal 4 or the Cargo centre.

 

All well and good but then should I drag the cable all the way from the pavement round one side of the car to the front, would just about reach, to plug in on the nose parked arse in to the charger !

 

We need loop chargers in the ground preferable.  No perfect solution only properly purpose built EV charging hub with good space and hatched areas maybe with channels that the cable sits in.  How thick is a 350 kWh charge cable, must be pretty meaty to run over 400 Amperes !

 

 

I knew of getting surveys asking about access to public charges for disabled drivers.   Nearly all the ones I see that are part of the CPS network that have been in a few years and even ones built in the past couple of years are not suitable for wheel chair users to activate.  PodPoint, InstaVolt, BP Pulse etc are pretty good.  

Hum.... I thought the Y was as narrow as 3. Didn't know they are almost S width! I don't want anything that's larger than 1.9m, some roads with parked cars in London are really narrow.

 

Sorry, I look at way too much Tesla's, I can pretty much identify their features by their exterior and model year. I'm looking to get a second hand 3 or Y in the future.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Hum.... I thought the Y was as narrow as 3. Didn't know they are almost S width! I don't want anything that's larger than 1.9m, some roads with parked cars in London are really narrow.

 

Sorry, I look at way too much Tesla's, I can pretty much identify their features by their exterior and model year. I'm looking to get a second hand 3 or Y in the future.

 

Always a problem for cars primarily built for the US/Canada market that end up in Europe etc and do not really fir the roads.

I barely fit in most European cars being 6ft 1 and 18 stone and some of my in laws are 6ft 6 to 7 near 7 foot tall.

 

I think the Dacia Spring will be the EV breakthrough and also depending on which Chinese brands make it.

A few bad reports about the MG's 5s winter performance was on the disappointing side... (140 miles for the outgoing short range model)

 

 

 

 

 

 

So I spent a bit of time today planning journeys based on a new Zoe.

 

given there are almost no 100plus chargers north of Manchester (Zap-Map) buying/renting something with a 150 feels like a folly. In the sense you can’t use it that often. Granted the network improves monthly.

 

im good for the lakes, wales from sheffield. Either a half hour stop on the way or the way back, or both gets me there and back. Cornwalls a bit trickier but doable around Penzance ie pop out for shopping, pastie, beer and it’s good to go.

 

it’s only when I get to fort William and beyond I begin to get a little twitchy.

 

still tempted as Renault have a 0% on atm and previous man maths all savings wiped out on pcp/pch charges.

 

much to mull over as a diversion from other news.

Edited 4 March, 20224 yr by ColinD
Trying to make sense of my own post

2 hours ago, ColinD said:

So I spent a bit of time today planning journeys based on a new Zoe.

 

given there are almost no 100plus chargers north of Manchester (Zap-Map) buying/renting something with a 150 feels like a folly. In the sense you can’t use it that often. Granted the network improves monthly.

 

im good for the lakes, wales from sheffield. Either a half hour stop on the way or the way back, or both gets me there and back. Cornwalls a bit trickier but doable around Penzance ie pop out for shopping, pastie, beer and it’s good to go.

 

it’s only when I get to fort William and beyond I begin to get a little twitchy.

 

still tempted as Renault have a 0% on atm and previous man maths all savings wiped out on pcp/pch charges.

 

much to mull over as a diversion from other news.

 

I love my Zoe R135 Riviera.  Done 3500 miles but all on home or AC chargers so not used DC 50 kW yet. 

 

Zoe is King, or Queen, of the distance smaller EVs with its 52/55 kWh battery. 

 

Doing 200 mile range now and it will soon be back to 240 miles once above 13c.

 

If I only use a fast charger for emergency that will be fine as they are expensive and I think the probably shorten the life of the battery. 

 

Got mine for about £28k on a low rate pcp ie £284 a month on 6k a year and well chuffed. 

There is a need for a better system than WLTP and the fiction that comes from that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, roottoot said:

There is a need for a better system than WLTP and the fiction that comes from that.

 

It is making it clearer that range is so dependant on what temperature it is when you leave home particularly in winter.

This morning quite warm start, Zoe showing 215 miles at the start of the 55 miles to Oxford airport but the car loved the warm drive in ECO mode across the Cotswolds and when I got to Oxford airport I still had 180 miles shown and had only 19% according to the state of charge indicator.

 

This is incredible and my range is well up to the 225 miles range I have not seen for 6 months and if it continues ie I am doing more travel with the EV in the 13 to 22 C of ambient and battery temperature I am sure it will be back up to 240 miles range.

 

Cracking the winter range, and seeing the motorway/truck charging network, using Telsa or new Gridserve chargers will revert and even go beyond what range I was seeing back in early September when I first got the car.

 

It is this temperature relationship I would like to have been clearer ie it is a graduation from the 15 C ambient down through the 10,5, and zero when that range has chunks taken out of it.

   

Instead of the 1-1.5 mile to the kWh i was getting on my 6 miles or so a day, i now get an indicated 3 miles to the kWh and have been actually getting 4 miles to the kWh, same journey, 

6 to 8  x 0.7 miles a day.

The difference is that it is at least 10 degrees C warmer as the car is sitting first thing than over a week ago then during the day is going as much as another 10*oC. higher.

Edited 23 March, 20224 yr by roottoot

 

 

This is Real World EV driving.

 

Only 1 CCS 50 kW charger and someone parks their car / company car or private for hours where there is charging, in this case 23 pence a kWh.

If the charger has cut out, or just the battery is full the car stays plugged in and not charging and nobody else can get charging until the driver decides to check on their car.

 

This is particularly annoying if they just need a phone alert or check on the car from wherever they are off too for hours. 

 

Here at least others know who the car belongs to and if the wrap is not enough there is the personal plate.  F8 ATH.

3 hours ago, roottoot said:

This is Real World EV driving.

 

Only 1 CCS 50 kW charger and someone parks their car / company car or private for hours where there is charging, in this case 23 pence a kWh.

If the charger has cut out, or just the battery is full the car stays plugged in and not charging and nobody else can get charging until the driver decides to check on their car.

 

This is particularly annoying if they just need a phone alert or check on the car from wherever they are off too for hours. 

 

Here at least others know who the car belongs to and if the wrap is not enough there is the personal plate.  F8 ATH.

 

 

Be nice if the system could give them a nudge on the app to allow unplug.

If there is CCTV over a charger, so any damage could be caught, then I'd say it would be quite reasonable for a tethered charger to unlock the charge port once the car has hit 80%.

 

Again it comes back to there being a need for idle/overstay charges.

Idle is a bit harsh as you don't actually know how long a car will take, but frankly after the car is charged 15-30 minutes is kind of the limit.

 

This is one part of electric car ownership I am not looking forward to.

Really no excuse for that with a Tesla, the app tells you your car is charged with a little alarm. Did you go round the shop and have a word or ring Faith to come move her car?

16 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

If there is CCTV over a charger, so any damage could be caught, then I'd say it would be quite reasonable for a tethered charger to unlock the charge port once the car has hit 80%.

CHADEMO does this (on completion of rapid charging) because the locking mechanism is controlled by the charger. I've been able to start my charge a handful of times this way. It was mostly at Ikea in early days when people plug in and dispensary inside the store for over an hour. There were every reason to plug in and charge to get £6 off but typical dwell time at Ikea is incompatible with concept of rapid charging.

 

Totally agree with idle/overstay fees. People need to treat rapid chargers like petrol station pumps, DO NOT go far from the car, it's not a parking spot.

But to be fair, rapids chargers also shouldn't be installed in hour-long car parks....... Need forecourt-styled setup like at Gridserve Braintree. Only car park that is suitable for rapid chargers is at services.