I hope this is off-topic, but I'm curious: Is there any enforcement employed to ensure "charger hogging" isn't a thing?

I'm thinking of people leaving their EVs parked and connected to free chargers for hours while they're off out for the day.

I suppose they'll eventually start printing off tickets that give EVs the use of a charging spot for <charge time> minutes, and then start issuing tickets like they do with car parks.
Being able to fairly quickly find a working and available charger is important to me. (I hate to queue: I go to fill up my petrol car in quiet times, usually first thing or evening.)

There is some enforcement to prevent charger hogging. Some charge point operators charge 'overstay' fees to prevent cars blocking the charger, which is usually implemented by a connection time limit or a time limit after your car stops charging. There is also the parking time limit way of preventing charger hogging by letting firms such as 'Parking Eye' enforce a time limit - this method is common at supermarket chargers.

 

Overstay fees / time limits are not ubiquitous by any means, which means charger hogging is still a problem. It also leads to legitimately charging vehicles being issued a PCN if the driver does not check the T's&C's, so in general is a bit of a mess. Being aware of what the state of play is helps EV drivers, but a universal protocol needs to be adopted to help prevent confusion amongst drivers. IMHO Rapid chargers should implement overstay fees when charging completes like the Tesla model (including limiting charge to 80% at busy sites) and 'fast' chargers limited by time via parking restrictions.

3 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

There is some enforcement to prevent charger hogging.

Thanks for the info. I really have no knowledge of what goes on at charge points, and what <should> happen is very often different from the reality on the street, so thanks for your reply. 👍

You have to remember there's 2 types of charging, and due to their vastly different use-cases, overstay are different: 

 

- Destination charging: they are like car parks, it would be nice for people to move their car, but there shouldn't be an expectation. This is sometimes free, but at train stations, for example, it is unrealistic to expect people to move. 

 

- En-route rapid charging: they are like petrol station pumps, but only needed when driving en-route beyond regular home range of your EV. They MUST NOT be blocked and people are expected to move their car as soon as they have enough juice (not charge all the way to full, depend on their car). In these instances, people are expected to stay nearby and sometimes expensive overstay fee apply. 

 

It is unfortunate many single rapid charger are installed at random locations, making them pointless. I try to plan my en-route charging around rapid charging hubs, where queues, blockage or broken charger are not much of an issue. 

The article you link to just make me think is GB News a con?

I think we all know the answer to that

 

I'm counting down the months until we might finally see an EV to be honest.

 

Edited 6 June, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

Her on GB News was just at it as that is how she makes a living.

The crazies earning their living being Anti go on about other Continents or World Regions when going on about EV's in the UK. 

Even comparing Scotland with England for the generating of electricity is skewed.

 

More battery storage at the Charging Hubs is essential & at Solar & Wind Farm localities & less of the co that is the National Grid in the UK.

 

If Coal & Gas and Nuclear generation is required in localised areas of the UK because they have no or little renewbles then the cost of the tariffs should be higher there and not highest where the electricity production and emissions are lower.

 

 

 

This is getting pretty common now, only 1 public rapid charger or the cheapest rapid charger in an area and commercial EV vans with bigger batteries needing to sit a good while to charge or sitting having a break and charging.

 

I suppose it is too much to expect an Energy Company to have their drivers go and pay more at an InstaVolt charging station. that the general public swerve.

(Including me when there is 'much cheapness or cheaper available.)

 

Edited 8 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

I really can not believe how many EV drivers will pull into the likes of a supermarket car park with EV charging bays and park and not charge.  Like the Muppet that arrived the same time as me and is off shopping and not charging.   There is only me in charging at present in the 4 bays but it normally gets busier and when it does I move away and let others get a charger. 

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

I really can not believe how many EV drivers will pull into the likes of a supermarket car park with EV charging bays and park and not charge.  Like the Muppet that arrived the same time as me and is off shopping and not charging.   There is only me in charging at present in the 4 bays but it normally gets busier and when it does I move away and let others get a charger. 

 

Round here I think the vast majority of shopper have home chargers and Worcester local Tescos mostly do not have EV chargers ie only one does one the other two large Tescos do not sadly, hope they rectify soon.  The roll out seems very slow here compare to what has happened at other supermarkets.  Not sure if many others are like me ie luck enough to have very cheap home charging, me at 5p a kWh until September, which makes it just not worth the hassle.

 

World might change in September when there is the next massive hike in electricity prices for many more drivers and driver will be hunting for electricity for their cars. 

 

Also loading up their power packs when they visit hotels to take power home.  Some people already have rigs to power their CPAP machines and they oft carry small power stations.  Looks like electricity, storage of power in our EVs and power/solar power stations could be even more valuable and petrol station which are suffering petrol theft at ever higher levels.  Interesting times ahead.   

@lol-lol I love free charging and will spend an hour in a day getting it on a 7kW if it suits me and move to let others charge but later in the week i have 500 plus miles to do in 24 hours and then maybe another 100 plus at the weekend so even free 50 kW charging will be too much hassle and i will pay whatever to get a reliable 50-100 kW charger then back to 'much cheapness again next week. 

 

 

Just strange behaviour i find at not only at my Local Tesco but at other Supermarkets. 

I was tempted to ask the guy when he came back, 'WTF' but you know sometimes that there is no point, you know the answer by looking at them.

This month so far is 800 miles at no cost with CPS and PodPoint at Tesco. 

(That is the luck of faulty CPS chargers actually giving a charge and not registering the usage and nothing billed.)

 

Edited 12 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

1 hour ago, roottoot said:

@lol-lol I love free charging and will spend an hour in a day getting it on a 7kW if it suits me and move to let others charge but later in the week i have 500 plus miles to do in 24 hours and then maybe another 100 plus at the weekend so even free 50 kW charging will be too much hassle and i will pay whatever to get a reliable 50-100 kW charger then back to 'much cheapness again next week. 

 

 

Just strange behaviour i find at not only at my Local Tesco but at other Supermarkets. 

I was tempted to ask the guy when he came back, 'WTF' but you know sometimes that there is no point, you know the answer by looking at them.

This month so far is 800 miles at no cost with CPS and PodPoint at Tesco. 

(That is the luck of faulty CPS chargers actually giving a charge and not registering the usage and nothing billed.)

 

 

I love charging for free off my employer or client whilst in an audit with HMRC and claiming tax relief on the 45p per mile whilst fossil burners are taxed to high heaven to bring on the demise of that method of propulsion. 

 

What is not great is where District Nurses cannot afford to run their cars on the 45p a mile never mind 25 ppm they would claim later in the year. 

 

This UK government's lack of empathy and understanding of matters that they have considerable direct control is a badge of shame for them. 

 

Edited 12 June, 20223 yr by lol-lol

It is a crime the amount of Local Authorities and NHS / Social Work etc in Scotland with thousands of EV's in car parks doing nothing and going no place.

There are ones used obviously but far too many doing nothing other than costing tax payers.  

There will be similar i expect in England.

On 12/06/2022 at 12:12, roottoot said:

It is a crime the amount of Local Authorities and NHS / Social Work etc in Scotland with thousands of EV's in car parks doing nothing and going no place.

There are ones used obviously but far too many doing nothing other than costing tax payers.  

There will be similar i expect in England.

 

Hope not and have not seen evidence but perhaps not seeing those big council building where they would be.

 

On the positive side the EV delivery vans are popping up everywhere. 

 

The delivery van thing is positive.  So are the trades vans and utilities companies.    But.  Then there is then charging for 'long time mister'.   You just relax and sit back as I charge for an hour or more while I eat something.     This is the Infrastructure issue where employees are given light commercials and need to do public charging.   But all is fair on the charger wars. 

Another day another trip where all 8 chargers (mix of 7 and 22kW) were hogged for at least 3 hours by hybrids.

 

Genuinely they need to ban hybrids from dedicated EV charging bays. No green plate, no use of the bays.

 

In itself that would help with charging availability.

 

I didn’t have an EV to charge or I’d have been hopping mad. Clearly one driver was as one of the hybrids had a charger card message under the window.

 

Van wise, it should be mandatory for a business to install at least one >50kW or multiple slower chargers at each major site if they want to get the tax benefits vs diesel.

Edited 21 June, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai

7 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

they need to ban hybrids from dedicated EV charging bays. No green plate, no use of the bays.

Not all real EVs have green plates.

^^^ Indeed.

I am off to get 40 minutes charge in before the hybrids hog the free chargers for hours.

I am not spending money to buy plates with a Green Flash.   Often BEV drivers think i should let them charge because they think i am in a hybrid. 

9 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Genuinely they need to ban hybrids from dedicated EV charging bays. No green plate, no use of the bays.

Me 2014 EV no haz green plate 😞

 

I get it's frustrating that PHEV are hogging the chargers. But remember, destination charger is like parking spots and first come first serve, PHEV need them to drive more miles on electric and pollute less. Rapid chargers is where PHEV shouldn't be allowed.

 

Hopefully you can charge on your way back and had a smooth journey?

 

 

 

It's funny seeing old style Nissan Leaf with green plates, it sort of feels like the owner are suckers for spending unnecessary money.

I have stayed plugged in now because there is just me and a PHEV Niro that never got charged yesterday.    Plug in hybrids with less than a 15 kW battery sitting on 7kWh chargers half or whole days because it is a park and ride is one thing, but where there are maybe 4 chargers it is a p|$$ take.  

59 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Me 2014 EV no haz green plate 😞

 

I get it's frustrating that PHEV are hogging the chargers. But remember, destination charger is like parking spots and first come first serve, PHEV need them to drive more miles on electric and pollute less. Rapid chargers is where PHEV shouldn't be allowed.

 

Hopefully you can charge on your way back and had a smooth journey?

 

 

 

It's funny seeing old style Nissan Leaf with green plates, it sort of feels like the owner are suckers for spending unnecessary money.

I agree not all BEV have green plates, but I’m sure we all get the principle.  Hybrids do not need the charge and will make it home, a BEV might not. Even if they do charge it’ll be full in not long.

 

If chargers are at normal bays sure, but when they are EV only parking bays next to chargers it’s just nuts.

20 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Hybrids do not need the charge and will make it home, a BEV might not. Even if they do charge it’ll be full in not long.

 

If chargers are at normal bays sure, but when they are EV only parking bays next to chargers it’s just nuts.

I get that, and I used to think the same: all public chargers should be reserved for BEV only. But in talking to a few PHEV owners, I understood that they really do need to plug in at every charging opportunity due to their short range battery. (one of reason why they are pointless in 2020's, but unfortunately public still buys them)

 

Yes, they don't need charging to make it home. That's why I hugely dislike Mercedes putting rapid charging ports on their newer PHEV (the A class at least). PHEV should never be on rapid chargers, because they are the chargers that make sure BEV can drive home.

 

Destination "fast" chargers, on the other hand, I now think it's fair game. Depending the nature of charging spot, it's usually for duration of the car is parked. It's just parking spots with benefits. Unfortunately this means BEV may not get a charge and will need to stop at a rapid charger on the way back at higher cost, similar to how PHEV will need to drive home using expensive fossil fuel if they didn't get a charge.

To be honest, seeing this at the places I regularly visit is bad. It means for a hybrid driver to save a little fuel a BEV driver has to add a 30+ minute stop and diversion to get home. That assumes public chargers are fast and available.

 

That really makes a BEV much less useful for regular journeys.

 

I am seriously considering cancelling the on order BEV and staying with diesel. 
 

Hybrids are terrible for the environment in every way and a general fear of lack of charging or long waits is already putting people off BEV which isn’t a good thing.

 

I found this interesting too:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/opinion/354505/scrap-your-hybrid-diesel-campaign-might-just-happen

 

Edited 22 June, 20223 yr by cheezemonkhai
small fix

The infrastructure is always improving, it will take time but we'll get there. In an ideal world, vast majority of parking spaces will have charging so there isn't an issue who gets to plug in.

 

Unfortunately the current state of BEV ownership is far from that. There's always charger anxiety due to shortage of chargers. I hate to say this, but If your time is very important (or you need to do this too often) and cost is no objection, then perhaps a fossil fuel car is still best for you, currently.

 

Apart from my workplace charging (we have whatsapp group to ask people to move their PHEV), I've personally given up on public destination charging. I'd swing by and not feel disappointed if there isn't a spot. In those away-from-home instances, I would plan and use rapid charging hubs along the route.

 

 

Step one is I'm writing to some of them to see if they have plans to improve infrastructure or to stop hybrid hogging.

If the responses are essentially no, then it will be another few years with a diesel.

In the UK the dates are set for the last sales / registration on Petrol & Diesel car sales in the UK.

 

In the Superb & Octavia section there are posts from members getting very good economy from the latest diesels. 

 

There are newish petrols and diesels doing short trips and getting worse economy than similar vehicles were getting decades ago.

If they are really only getting 25 mpg doing a few miles a day then that is just crap. 

That is not just big heavy models.

 

It is a matter of horses for courses and what can suit different people.

Sadly the WLTP / RDE2 figures are just ridiculous.

 

If there was a truer indication of economy and emissions the UK Government could truly hit financially those running the least efficient cars. 

That is family cars for individuals, families or for commercial / business use. 

 

The Hybrid thing is just too much kidology as is Mild Hybrids to a degree.

 

Then the BEV WLTP figures given are just ridiculous.