Octopus planning to biuld its own grid.....   https://www.energylivenews.com/2024/01/26/octopus-to-build-own-electricity-pylons-challenging-national-grid/

 

UK National Grid and the old CEGB did some amazing work, bring the UK on to a single network, load balancing, building and plumbing in Dinorwig to the Grid.

 

Things are changing though, like with Octopus and microgeneration.  Whether their business has peaked as lecky becomes something that is not a monopoly and significant numbers of current UK consumers find ways to circumvent the ie drive vehicles that are sucking up power at public sites and running their homes from their vehicle or mobile batteries which have CCS connections to also charge from public charging points like the Allpowers R4000.  Collecting lecky could become like collecting bread and milk. 

 

Harry's latest video is interesting. He mentions that the dealers don't want second-hand EVs as they interfere with them shifting and hitting their targets of selling new EVs.

 

It's a video explaining why he has gone back to diesel, but it isn't a slagging off of EVs as a car (he embraces tech), but more the complications and issues of the whole EV scene. It's a little bit of an eye-opener. 

 

 

Thank you, Harry, you have echoed the issues I have uncovered, some of these I have mentioned already here, others I decided not to because there are always some who it seems are not willing to accept any negative comments towards EV cars. They associate my genuine concerns as being totally against EV's which is a million miles away from the truth, it is still, as Harry pointed out, new tech and we still have much more to do and learn about EVs.

Long story short is that for anyone wanting to buy a pretty young used EV there should be plenty to chose from at maybe 'Much Cheapness' as they have to get flogged by Lease companies, Motability etc. 

 

So as long as the prices are really dropping away and main dealers do not want them as part of their sales stock they should be getting into the hands of traders / brokers and then to new owners. 

This battery degradation thing is well known,  Used Car Traders of EV,s are checking, well good ones.

Cars like the Leaf that we know about and why some were more affected than others is there for people to learn about, how cooling when charging was an issue.

People wanting a town car / commuter and a used car might well do their due diligence before buying a used EV.  Others will maybe trust sales people and get screwed.

 

There are so many Polestars about Scotland it is quite surprising.  I have yet to hear a driver with one complain about them.

I really hope at 3 or 4 years old to 10 years old they are going to be good used buys and very cheap.  There will be loads of them kicking about. 

 

The Dundee Taxi firm that had a pretty large fleet of Leaf got on pretty well with how the performed with Rapid charging and doing high annual miles.

Town / City miles though, just like many people just need a inexpensive used car for. 

I think main dealers not wanting used EV is mainly down to the 22% mandate that new car dealers must hit in order for the manufacturer not get hit by penalty. As mentioned around 9:20 video.

 

I do see what Harry is saying about manufacturers not telling about battery degradation, at around 13:15 of video. Nissan, for example, their service contains a battery report that doesn't tell you anything what so ever. One has to buy Leafspy or other OBD tools to find out.

It's one of the reason I decided to buy new (my only brand new car) for the long range car I want to keep for long term. Through TeslaMate logging, I know the whole history of its battery down to every detail. 

You can see I try to keep it between 30%-75%, right around 50% mark.

 

I don't agree regarding cold weather performance though. In situation where range is actually needed: during long distance driving, heat scavenging from the battery after rapid charging solves the problem pretty well. Day to day, using a bit more energy to warm up the car is non-issue.

 

The 3 points conclusion is pretty spot on:

1. Target on efficiency. "Efficiency should be name of the game"

2. Battery health openly available for second hand vehicle

3. BEV isn't going to solve climate change, "even if charged on green electricity"

 

For last point, I think he's forgetting or not aware of V2G or V2H that allows the battery to be an asset. The reality is that we are waaaaaay short on battery production and adoption to allow 100% renewable powered. EV's are battery on wheels, we should start use them when parked.

No single thing is going to solve climate change, but batteries are an important part of the renewable energy solution, and BEV happen to contain the biggest one most people will ever own.

@wyx087Don't forget that the cold weather aspect was something that Harry said he had experienced himself personally with his Jaguar Ipace and I have seen others report this with other cars as well, so the fact that you can dismiss this, might just be down to the fact that you drive a Telsa?

 

It will be partly down to being a Tesla, and then comparing with a Jaguar.

It is not to be dismissed, it is real, and different EV,s are affected differently.

It matters if travelling the distance of the capacity of your battery and then that is lower by 1/4 or 1/3 rd. not just some 20% the car magazines go on about when not really out and about in that cold UK weather. 

 

Getting the car heated and then going non stop might be very different from a Rep / Commercial Traveller / Worker that has several stops a day to do and the battery getting cold every time and the interior cold.

 

Or an actual family going places, needing the car heated and ventilated.   Like real world, not a Journalist or 2 checking range until the car runs out of energy. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

@wyx087Don't forget that the cold weather aspect was something that Harry said he had experienced himself personally with his Jaguar Ipace and I have seen others report this with other cars as well, so the fact that you can dismiss this, might just be down to the fact that you drive a Telsa?

 

I've not completely dismissing it, I've got plenty of this experience in both cars. It can be most noticeable when cars are used intermediately, as I alluded to. But that circles back to if one can easily charge when at home makes it a non-issue. 300 miles become 100 miles is no issue if I only need to do 80 miles.

However, remember ICE fuel economy are also affected by intermediate use throughout the day.

 

But when range actually matters, when trying to get somewhere in one go, it isn't much of a problem in well designed EV's that can do heat scavenging.

Jag IPace doesn't do heat scavenging, it is well known to be one of the worst efficient EV.

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

Long story short is that for anyone wanting to buy a pretty young used EV there should be plenty to chose from at maybe 'Much Cheapness' as they have to get flogged by Lease companies, Motability etc. 

 

So as long as the prices are really dropping away and main dealers do not want them as part of their sales stock they should be getting into the hands of traders / brokers and then to new owners. 

A colleague of mine bought a Taycan as it was 2 years old and had suffered huge deprecation. As long as he keeps it for several years I'm sure he will be OK, although one day, a new battery (fitted) is going to cost him or someone, £50,000 according to Porsche. I think he is already beginning to wince at the insurance and reduced range in the cold weather. It is a lot of car for the money, the interior is stunning, but he might be caught in a bit of a trap now. 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I've not completely dismissing it, I've got plenty of this experience in both cars. It can be most noticeable when cars are used intermediately, as I alluded to. But that circles back to if one can easily charge when at home makes it a non-issue. 300 miles become 100 miles is no issue if I only need to do 80 miles.

However, remember ICE fuel economy are also affected by intermediate use throughout the day.

 

But when range actually matters, when trying to get somewhere in one go, it isn't much of a problem in well designed EV's that can do heat scavenging.

Jag IPace doesn't do heat scavenging, it is well known to be one of the worst efficient EV.

OK, I accept that charging at home can be for the right type of usage a game changer, but you actually heard Harry state that he has massive solar capacity both on his farmhouse and his garage and that was OK for some journeys and his cars are always garaged overnight so they are never as cold as ones parked outside and I'm pretty sure his garage is also heated so that's an added bonus, and yet he has still noticed a massive drop in range and disparity between home charging and the cost of public chargers was another significant factor in his decision to go back to pure diesel powered car again, and also the monthly payments were 50% of those for the equivalent EV, all coupled with degradation factor and he showed the results of the other YTuber Bjorn Nyland who tests EV cars to the limits and documents loads of details in a spreadsheet such as weight, degradation, range, speed etc etc.Link to this spreadsheet is here TB test results - Google Sheets

 

The most startling on degradation is a 8 year old Nissan Leaf which has lost 70% of its range. Also I discovered that model 3 Tesla weighs in at staggering 1940kg, thats 1.9 ton My diesel DSG Superb is only 1570 (1.5 ton) and that includes a 70kG driver, fuel tank filled to a minimum of 90% and with all the other fluids and all the tool kit etc as well, and the Superb is no small car, whereas the model 3 is the smallest car from Telsa. So it would seem that there is a lot of truth when people have been claiming EV's are heavier than their equivalent ICE powered car.

8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@wyx087Don't forget that the cold weather aspect was something that Harry said he had experienced himself personally with his Jaguar Ipace and I have seen others report this with other cars as well, so the fact that you can dismiss this, might just be down to the fact that you drive a Telsa?

 

 

Not just TESLA as a lot of other EVs have heat pump tech.  I have been working in Manchester during the week for a couple of months now and I can do the 210 mile tip without recharging in the Zoe and each time I have used the Zoe it has had 30 miles or more range left when I get home to Worcester.  Temperature has been anything from just over 0 C to about 10 C.   Range has oft said I only have about 210 miles but I have managed to exceed its predictions by 10% or more.

 

Zoe has a Heat Pump tech for many years, Renault were first to use Heat pumps in a production car and whilst they only claimed 200 Km, 124 miles winter (proper winter ie well below zero) range with the right driving style and usage of cabin heating that can be far extended and in my ZE50 with the 52 kWh battery, I think it would have to be very very cold to get less than 200 miles range.  Heated seats are better than trying to hold the air temp over 20C with all that glass losing heat which TESLA have got round I gather by now double glazing the glass so a double benefit of even quieter cabin and less heat loss through the glass.       

 

One has to do ones research.  I tried the well thought of Mangane-e but the cheaper models did not get a heat pump so even though they have a quoted range of 280 miles, better than my quoted 238 miles in winter the base model megane-e would probably do about the same range as my Zoe or in every cold weather even less range.  The i-pace is a good example of an expensive car with key tech missing for whatever reason.  Buyer beware. 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Renault Range OptimiZEr maximises everyday driving range, bringing together the benefits of Michelin ENERGY™ E-V tyres, heat pump and new-generation regenerative braking technology to extend the range by up to 25 per cent........

 

2. Heat pump – a production first:
The heat pump in ZOE is the first time such an innovation has been used  in a production car. It is also standard equipment on ZOE yet remains a  cost option on several of its competitors.  To cool the cabin, the system works like a normal electric air conditioning  system. To heat the interior, it reverses the operation cycle: air is taken  from outside the vehicle, compressed and heated and then directed into  the car.  This means the cabin can be heated with minimal impact on range. The  heat pump uses up to three times less energy than a conventional system  to produce an equivalent level of heating. Moreover, the desired cabin  temperature is reached more quickly and maintained at a more stable  level than in an ICE vehicle, where cabin heating depends on wasted energy from the engine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

15503-ZOEPressKitFeb2019.pdf

It is very encouraging that if you want an EV with just 200 miles range like a used Porsche Taycan is going to be available soon for the price of a 2024 Fabia Mk4 1.5TSI.  Flying pigs.

 

& that they can get an early Nissan Leaf that will be able to do the 50 miles or so that someone might need to do and can do that for maybe £2 or less.  

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

OK, I accept that charging at home can be for the right type of usage a game changer, but you actually heard Harry state that he has massive solar capacity both on his farmhouse and his garage and that was OK for some journeys and his cars are always garaged overnight so they are never as cold as ones parked outside and I'm pretty sure his garage is also heated so that's an added bonus, and yet he has still noticed a massive drop in range and disparity between home charging and the cost of public chargers was another significant factor in his decision to go back to pure diesel powered car again, and also the monthly payments were 50% of those for the equivalent EV, all coupled with degradation factor and he showed the results of the other YTuber Bjorn Nyland who tests EV cars to the limits and documents loads of details in a spreadsheet such as weight, degradation, range, speed etc etc.Link to this spreadsheet is here TB test results - Google Sheets

 

The most startling on degradation is a 8 year old Nissan Leaf which has lost 70% of its range. Also I discovered that model 3 Tesla weighs in at staggering 1940kg, thats 1.9 ton My diesel DSG Superb is only 1570 (1.5 ton) and that includes a 70kG driver, fuel tank filled to a minimum of 90% and with all the other fluids and all the tool kit etc as well, and the Superb is no small car, whereas the model 3 is the smallest car from Telsa. So it would seem that there is a lot of truth when people have been claiming EV's are heavier than their equivalent ICE powered car.

The matter you pointed out was "cold weather aspect". It is separate issue to milage/aging degradation. In this post you've completely mixed them up. 

 

The guy has garage and charges at home. As I said, the worse efficiency in winter is when used intermitted throughout the day and is noticeable, but if one can charge at home, why care? Get up every day with 80% or 100% charge, more than enough for vast majority of people, and get on with the day. This may be difference between getting home with 40% or getting home with 25%. It wouldn't change usage pattern. 

 

I don't know about Jag IPace. But for long journey, heat pump Tesla has octovalve and will move heat energy around the car, nothing is dumped outside. So when driving, motor heat is moved into cabin and battery. After charging, battery heat is moved into cabin. Nothing is wasted, improves efficiency. 

Most EV even with heat pump will only heat up interior using cold outside air and dump motor/battery heat outside.  

 

 

The point on degradation is highly dependent on how the battery is used. The Nissan Leaf example is probably due to Leaf being abused, also the battery was first-gen. My updated battery (post 2013) and apply very basic care still has 79% health at over 9 years old. 

Again, you are overly focused on negatives. The point Harry is making is that EV battery health varies depending on how it is used, second hand market need better reporting of battery conditions. 

 

"Superb is no small car, whereas the model 3 is the smallest car from Telsa" ...... what a strange comparison.  Would you do the same comparison with smallest Rolls Royce Ghost? The fact is Model 3 has almost 20cm longer wheel base giving more space to passengers despite being a slightly shorter car. 

Maybe @lol-lol or anyone could show the scores on the doors for a Business User & the costs BIK & fuel etc comparing that 'Commercial Traveller' / Rep doing 250-300 miles a working day Public Charging a Tesla @ Tesla Superchargers no home charging or a Skoda Superb 2.0TDI DSG using super market diesel. 

Lets say they are doing 1,000 miles a week for 45 weeks a year. 

 

Not about private buyers / drivers. Those costs are pretty easy for people to work out for their use, location, circumstances, home charging or public, 

and running older or newer cars etc.  DIY maintenance or using garages.  Lease or Purchase / owning.

LEZ,s.  Parking, Work Place charging or availability of cheaper fuels for an ICE.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The matter you pointed out was "cold weather aspect". It is separate issue to milage/aging degradation. In this post you've completely mixed them up. 

 

The guy has garage and charges at home. As I said, the worse efficiency in winter is when used intermitted throughout the day and is noticeable, but if one can charge at home, why care? Get up every day with 80% or 100% charge, more than enough for vast majority of people, and get on with the day. This may be difference between getting home with 40% or getting home with 25%. It wouldn't change usage pattern. 

 

I don't know about Jag IPace. But for long journey, heat pump Tesla has octovalve and will move heat energy around the car, nothing is dumped outside. So when driving, motor heat is moved into cabin and battery. After charging, battery heat is moved into cabin. Nothing is wasted, improves efficiency. 

Most EV even with heat pump will only heat up interior using cold outside air and dump motor/battery heat outside.  

 

 

The point on degradation is highly dependent on how the battery is used. The Nissan Leaf example is probably due to Leaf being abused, also the battery was first-gen. My updated battery (post 2013) and apply very basic care still has 79% health at over 9 years old. 

Again, you are overly focused on negatives. The point Harry is making is that EV battery health varies depending on how it is used, second hand market need better reporting of battery conditions. 

 

"Superb is no small car, whereas the model 3 is the smallest car from Telsa" ...... what a strange comparison.  Would you do the same comparison with smallest Rolls Royce Ghost? The fact is Model 3 has almost 20cm longer wheel base giving more space to passengers despite being a slightly shorter car. 

I was quoting you the degradation figures as printed in the Bjorn Nyland spreadsheet for the 8-year-old Nissan Leaf, and nowhere did I mention any of this BS about heat pumps etc, that's another separate issue and is a can of worms that is not relevant in the context that Harry was talking about. If the Jag had heat pump technology, I'm pretty certain that he would have known that as he was one of the first to install heat pumps in his house, as mentioned in the video, so I would have expected him to factor that into the equation when discussing the range drop etc.

 

When it comes to the actual wheelbase, it has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of interior space, that is down to how clever the designers of the interior are and it is a fact that the Superb has limousine amounts of legroom, like that of a Mercedes Benz S class.

 

As to my statement about the Superb being a large car against the smallest Tesla which is a model 3, I was, and you must have understood the direction I was coming from as the paragraph was all about the respective weights of both cars and the Tesla here is the porky one, and I said that there does indeed seem to be some substance that EVs are heavier, based on the examples I gave of a large car with large interior space (Superb), being some around 370kg lighter than a Tesla Model 3 which is shorter. In short then the smaller car, Telsa is actually heavier, especially when the owner's manual for the Superb also states that the weight of the car includes all the standard fitments to the car including all the required tools like jacks etc, plus the 70kg and a 90% full tank of fuel and it still beats the Tesla by 370kg, which may not include the weight of the driver in its figures.

 

I'm sorry that you don't seem able to accept that the Tesla in this instance has not trumped a Skoda Superb, and I'd like to make it perfectly clear here and now that I never set out to make any such claims, my posts have been and are all about everyday practicalities. And yes, before you go on the ability to preheat/cool your car from some phone app or something and its near silence etc when being driven, yes I'm  very envious of those features but they are extra luxury items and not basic things that all cars need to have to get from A to B. 

 

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

It is very encouraging that if you want an EV with just 200 miles range like a used Porsche Taycan is going to be available soon for the price of a 2024 Fabia Mk4 1.5TSI.  Flying pigs.

 

& that they can get an early Nissan Leaf that will be able to do the 50 miles or so that someone might need to do and can do that for maybe £2 or less.  

The specs you show for my car are incorrect, I have the 2016 150hp 6speed DSG so the actual weight is less than the 2024 model.

I never showed a 8 year old car as really not that relevant other than about buying 8 year old cars and ones that you can not even take into Glasgow City Centre / LEZ without a fine.

 

So i just went simple and for New. 

Like maybe a Business Users gets from their company.  New leased cars. 

 

?

Is it an AWD?

How much did the 2016 Superb cost, and is it Euro 5 or Euro 6? 

Would anyone run one in UK cities as a VIP / Airport transporter? 

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

Lets say they are doing 1,000 miles a week for 45 weeks a year. 

That's only 200 miles per day over 5 working weekdays. Well within modern EV home range. 

 

EV: 7.5p/kWh at 3.5 mi/kWh => 2.2 p/mi => £22 per week. 45 weeks, 1000 miles a week => £990. 

Irregular daily miles, let's say EV 75% home charging, most expensive 79p/kWh public charging => £56.42 per week + £16.50 home charging. Over 45 weeks => £3281.40 

Diesel: let's say 10p/mi. 45 weeks => £4500 
 

56 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I was quoting you the degradation figures as printed in the Bjorn Nyland spreadsheet for the 8-year-old Nissan Leaf, and nowhere did I mention any of this BS about heat pumps etc, that's another separate issue and is a can of worms that is not relevant in the context that Harry was talking about. If the Jag had heat pump technology, I'm pretty certain that he would have known that as he was one of the first to install heat pumps in his house, as mentioned in the video, so I would have expected him to factor that into the equation when discussing the range drop etc.

Again, you are not reading. My bit you quoted did not mention battery degradation at all. 

There's 2 perceived issues: 

1. Cold weather reduction in efficiency 

2. Battery degradation as it ages 

My post you've quoted is point number 1. 

My post quoted your post and that is about point number 1. 

My post you've quoted never mentioned point number 2. 

Bjorn Nyland spreadsheet is on point number 2. The Nissan Leaf example is point number 2. The heat pump talk is point number 1. 

 

Also remember, not all heat pump are made the same. As I said, most cars today don't do heat scavenging. The motor cooling is different system to cabin heat pump. This sort of thing is not visible to the user and just by having heat pump installed at their house does not mean the user is aware of the differences in their vehicle. Especially considering when the said user is basing their PHEV battery health on the guess-o-meter, a combined metric that takes into account of driving style and conditions. Granted, issue is that there's no better alternative, but GOM is the least reliable metric of battery health. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm sorry that you don't seem able to accept that the Tesla in this instance has not trumped a Skoda Superb

Sorry, didn't realise we are playing top trumps, "my car is better than your car".  In that case, your car is great 😜 

 

I only commented on your strange comparison method. 

 

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Let's compare similar sized AWD cars as per your table: 

BMW 3 series: 1.8 T https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/saloon-2019/m340d-xdrive-sport-automatic-4d/specs/

Merc C class: 1.8 T https://www.parkers.co.uk/mercedes-amg/c-class/saloon-2022/c43-4matic-premium-plus-4dr-9g-tronic/specs/

Don't forget Paris' new heavy-car parking surcharge is 1.6T for ICE cars. 

1 hour ago, Rooted said:

I never showed a 8 year old car as really not that relevant other than about buying 8 year old cars and ones that you can not even take into Glasgow City Centre / LEZ without a fine.

 

So i just went simple and for New. 

Like maybe a Business Users gets from their company.  New leased cars. 

 

?

Is it an AWD?

How much did the 2016 Superb cost, and is it Euro 5 or Euro 6? 

Would anyone run one in UK cities as a VIP / Airport transporter? 

To answer your questions I give you:

 

Is it an AWD - No

How much did the 2016 Superb cost, and is it Euro 5 or Euro 6? - Price, no idea, it is however Euro 6

Would anyone run one in UK cities as a VIP / Airport transporter? - Yes and they are doing so.

 

This is another reason for wanting to get a mk3 model because of the introduction of the London ULEZ zones. I can currently drive this car anywhere in the UK except for the Zero Emission zone in Oxford.

 

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

3 hours ago, Rooted said:

Maybe @lol-lol or anyone could show the scores on the doors for a Business User & the costs BIK & fuel etc comparing that 'Commercial Traveller' / Rep doing 250-300 miles a working day Public Charging a Tesla @ Tesla Superchargers no home charging or a Skoda Superb 2.0TDI DSG using super market diesel.   Lets say they are doing 1,000 miles a week for 45 weeks a year. 

Not about private buyers / drivers. Those costs are pretty easy for people to work out for their use, location, circumstances, home charging or public, 

and running older or newer cars etc.  DIY maintenance or using garages.  Lease or Purchase / owning.

LEZ,s.  Parking, Work Place charging or availability of cheaper fuels for an ICE.

 

 

 

There are several different paradigms for cars being used for a companies business.  The company car schemes have faded a lot and cash allocation is more the norm with salary sacrifice cars growing in popularity due to their tax avoidance benefits.  Company car cash is a problem as one is going to get nobbled with losing 30% or 42% of it through PAYE taxation through the pay packet, even worse now as the freezing of the tax thresholds ie at £12,570 and £50,270, for those with no tax code amending claims or negative BIK ie like fuel provided under a fuel card which I also have.  If one has a fuel card then one does not usually claim any business miles from ones company but one can claim on the fact one is not getting business mileage at all so one can claim tax relief on mileage not being given, even though one has a fuel card. So I get £7K added to my code for not getting any mileage.  Fuel card costs are now added monthly to ones payslip so if I fill up 3 times in the petrol cars and say £200 is added to my Benefits and taxed through the payslip monthly rather than declared on Self Assessment.

 

The trick now days, made more difficult by the freeze in tax allowances, is to try and keep just under the Higher tax allowance, if one can live on the £51K Gross salary in one's current lifestyle, suppose that is a net of around £40K but one has hopefully packed enough in the pension pot to make retirement comfortable.  Con government now allows more than £40K in a year to be diverted in to one's pension pot ie up to £60k pa, said by Jeremy the Hunt to try and keep medical consultants in the working environment but it will be used by many others.  So cars remain a place where well planned tax avoidance can work well.  Getting companies to give a good car allowance is a problem.  Levels of say £350 a month do not give much choice to run at a close to neutral stance.  I have just seen the Ora car now quoted as a lease price of less than £200 and no deposit which is awesome only 5K mile pa though.  The 45p a mile is looking so low these days when looking at overall running costs.  25p after 10K miles even more incredible low.  I use to get 63p a mile back in the early nineties paid to me when working for HMRC.  Heard of some workers say they will not do long trips after they pass 10k miles but will put them off to After April 5th ie new tax year.   

 

EVs are great for cheap running costs if one can home charge most the time and servicing costs are low too.  Though my Arkana only needs serving every 18k miles and does well over 50 mpg in the winter and the fuel car means petrol is effectively only 28p a litre as I do divert tens of thousands a year in to my pension to stay a standard rate taxpayer.  Hoping to join Octopus car salary sacrifice soon and TESLA model 3 standard range LFP battery Highland version looks a good fit for me with it 300+ miles range except in very cold conditions.  Lease under £400 a month it looks like.   Just need the TESLA charge card either with the company or privately so I can claim, not sure how one passes on charging done at home, might get a second charger for that, one which use Octopus Intelligent.  Not a great perk but gets one in a newish car for less money. 

 

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by lol-lol

Harry's garage video talked about cost of EV's.

 

Clearly hasn't seen the latest deals:

 

Landscape are changing, EV's are becoming super cheap.

 

But he was actually looking at a Range Rover and in fact went back to a diesel RR, none of these cars are anywhere near that class of car, so once again you're not comparing like for like. Its a bit like comparing your Telsa with a Nissan Leaf.🤔

Edited 9 February, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

it is a fact that the Superb has limousine amounts of legroom

Point of order; a Superb is a large saloon, not a limousine. This is easily confirmed by getting into the rear seats and looking at the backs of the front seats rather than the fixed divider that isn't there.