Got good miles per kilowatt hour due to not using the heating much, even though I have a heat pump.

Use my £12 bought from China heater seat cover, use that on low and the switch off for a bit and then back on for a bit of a body temp warm up.

Have not checked the cars stats but I expect it will say 22 kws used for traction and climate but 2 kws regenerated back in to the battery on hill descents so 20 kWh net used hence still 60% battery left after 105 miles driven.

Temperature about 10c ambient for the journey.  If it had been around 5c or even less I would have used the mild hybrid Arkana and enjoyed the engines waste heat to keep toasties.

 

Round trip completed. 210 miles travelled approx, 35 miles showing on range left.  Miles per kWh showing 5 m/kWh so faily spot on for Zoe range ie about 240 miles.

 

Oddly the Zoe odometer seems to under record as Google said about 215 miles but Zoe instrument slightly less than 210, usually to over report mileage than under so range would look better than it real is, weird.

 

Will charge up tonight of the cheap lecky at 9 p per kWh so I reckon cost for the 210 mile trip £4 ish.

 

Car showed stats of around 48 Kwh used but over 5 kWh of regen.  Use of lecky for climate was only about 1 kWh for the whole trip.  My £12 heated seat cover worked well.  Average temp was about 9C so quite warm for this time of year.

 

Well done Zoe, be interesting to see how the Renault 5 spec will be.  I hear there will be a smaller battery LFP version and a more expensive pure lithium version and similar for an Alpine A290 lithium version.   

 

 

I think Harry sums this car up pretty well, and did you notice how much of the time he had to take his eyes off the road and look at the controls and the screen in order to do things that could have been done with simple switches. There is an accident in the making and the insurance on cars like that is climbing skywards like a rocket and the insane acceleration compared to normal ICE powered versions is not going to do it any favours in that area either. People will be getting themselves in all kinds of uncomfortable situations as a result.

 

It is as he states a very heavy, expensive and inefficient and the ambient lighting and digital displays with their ever-changing displays and colours etc are, for me, one distraction too many.

 

Harry also said about how much extra power you actually have to pay for in order to put X KWh into the battery is staggering and is that normal that you have to pay for around 10% extra power that does not make it into the "tank" so to speak. He likened it to actually spilling 10% of the liquid fuel being pumped into an ICE car each time when being refuelled.

Edited 28 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

Not just Harry.   As to Richard, i think he might just be a bit apprehensive in upsetting manufacturers. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/520601-vids-of-the-bmw-i5-loads-of-money-ev

 

 

The legacy auto-makers BMW, Merc, VW, as well as Jag I suppose, are just not producing competitive cars compared to what TESLA and even the Chinese are knocking out at the moment as What Cars test shows.   

 

VW might say the ID7 is a slightly bigger and perhaps premium cabin offering than the Model 3 and BYD Seal but the difference are large in the efficiency of the drive train as well as prices between the other two competitors.

 

I hoped it was only just the bottom and middle part of the market the legacy automakers were going to lose their market share on but it looks like premium as well.

It will be interesting to see how the electric Macan sells this year. With Porsche going full electric, as is Jaguar, they are putting all the eggs in the EV basket bravely. (vid below 1st one).

 

 

 

Really just a left hand drive car from VW for What car / Autocar, Haymarked Media Group who are their fan boys and a contractor for launches etc

.  I want to see when the voice control is not understanding how good he is with the left hand changing the heater / cooler fan if he is right handed.  No passenger in the car and he is moving. 

Ask for a faster setting and getting the lowest.  Just the usual crap. 

How in the name of any VW CEO can it be brilliant when totally guff?

Edited 28 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

 

The cheapest (sub 40K UK price) TESLA so no luxury car tax.  This is the RWD Model 3 using LFP battery chemistry.

WTLP range 318 miles. 

Does it charge at 175 kWs ie adding a mile of range every 5 seconds when plugged in to a TESLA supercharger (The usual V2 to V4, V1 can only do 150 kWh) ?

 

Edited 28 January, 20242 yr by lol-lol

Agreed, it's no luxury car according to the tax rules, but it is still seen by many people as a premium car and is outside many people's budgets. At the time of that video being shot, it did indeed get upto 175kWs, but it is also true that he did say that there was only 1 other car there charging, the real test would be if almost all the chargers were in use, what the charging speed be then? I wonder?

 

 

Edited 28 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

19 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Does it charge at 175 kWs ie adding a mile of range every 5 seconds when plugged in to a TESLA supercharger (The usual V2 to V4, V1 can only do 150 kWh) ?

V1 and V2 have similar backend inverter (the giant cabinet hidden away nearby), 150 kW shared between 2 stalls. V1 are pretty much extinct. V2 is still around, they have 2 cables, one for old S/X and standard CCS for all cars.

V3 and V4 have similar backend, currently. 1,000 kW shared across 4 stalls, in another words, 250 kW for all stalls. V3 are seen in the video and have a single CCS cable. V4 have longer cable and contactless payment terminal. V4 is said to be compatible with up to 1000v when backends get upgraded for 800v cars.

 

Summary of that video is 28 minutes 4% to 80%.  Extrapolate to 200 miles range in all weather means up to 150 miles per hop, 30min charge.

Long range is similar percent-wise, at 250 kW peak means still under 30min to charge to 80%. 250 miles in all weather means up to 200 miles per hop, 30min charge.

 

 

For price, let's not forget cars are expensive these days. £40k is the new £30k.

Model Y start at £45k but contains every comfort option by default. Only configurable are tow hitch, enhanced autopilot and colour/wheel options.

Superb 2015 used to start at £20k: https://www.parkers.co.uk/skoda/superb/review/

Superb now starts at £31k, 150% price inflation and goes all the way to £41k, all before optional extras: https://www.skoda.co.uk/new-cars/range

 

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

V1 and V2 have similar backend inverter (the giant cabinet hidden away nearby), 150 kW shared between 2 stalls. V1 are pretty much extinct. V2 is still around, they have 2 cables, one for old S/X and standard CCS for all cars.

V3 and V4 have similar backend, currently. 1,000 kW shared across 4 stalls, in another words, 250 kW for all stalls. V3 are seen in the video and have a single CCS cable. V4 have longer cable and contactless payment terminal. V4 is said to be compatible with up to 1000v when backends get upgraded for 800v cars.

Summary of that video is 28 minutes 4% to 80%.  Extrapolate to 200 miles range in all weather means up to 150 miles per hop, 30min charge.

Long range is similar percent-wise, at 250 kW peak means still under 30min to charge to 80%. 250 miles in all weather means up to 200 miles per hop, 30min charge.

For price, let's not forget cars are expensive these days. £40k is the new £30k.

Model Y start at £45k but contains every comfort option by default. Only configurable are tow hitch, enhanced autopilot and colour/wheel options.

Superb 2015 used to start at £20k: https://www.parkers.co.uk/skoda/superb/review/

Superb now starts at £31k, 150% price inflation and goes all the way to £41k, all before optional extras: https://www.skoda.co.uk/new-cars/range

 

 

The Model 3 charging video mentioned charge rate dropped to just below 50 kWh at 86% so that is only 29%, two sevenths, of the initial and brief 175 kWh charging so only adding 3 and a half miles per minute at the charger.  TESLA advice is go ahead and charge the LFP battery Model 3, and presumably the Y as well but that is pretty slow and not really economic for me to sit around with it charging that slowly. 

 

Wonder if I can buy in Ireland and get it as an export as Model 3 standard range in Ireland is 43k Euros which is less than £37k and if one could get a VAT free export that would be more like £30k, just have to avoid the double 10% import duty as I think these are Chinese made.  Getting it RHD could be the issue for a European made one.  Long range Model 3, with Lithium ion battery pack is 51k in Ireland which is £43.6k, without the VAT £35.5k so TESLA are being sold much cheaper in Ireland and other EU countries than GB sadly.

 

Long range model Y is currently selling for 51,250 Euros which is £43.8k which is £35.6k without VAT if I am calculating right at 23% standard rate in Ireland.

 

TESLAs seem quite a bit cheaper in Ireland than the UK which has not seen the same percentage of reductions that European has seen recently ie 5 to 7% I recall hearing.

 

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

The Model 3 charging video mentioned charge rate dropped to just below 50 kWh at 86% so that is only 29%, two sevenths, of the initial and brief 175 kWh charging so only adding 3 and a half miles per minute at the charger.  TESLA advice is go ahead and charge the LFP battery Model 3, and presumably the Y as well but that is pretty slow and not really economic for me to sit around with it charging that slowly. 

The advise on charging to 100% for LFP is more for home/destination charging.

 

The in-car nav will tell you when you have enough to continue your journey, it usually leaves 10% buffer, with temperature, wind, weather condition, elevation, traffic, etc taken into account. So during long journey, it is unlikely you'll ever need to sit and wait for 100%.

 

(Also, it's kW for charge rate and kWh for battery capacity)

9 hours ago, wyx087 said:

V1 and V2 have similar backend inverter (the giant cabinet hidden away nearby), 150 kW shared between 2 stalls. V1 are pretty much extinct. V2 is still around, they have 2 cables, one for old S/X and standard CCS for all cars.

V3 and V4 have similar backend, currently. 1,000 kW shared across 4 stalls, in another words, 250 kW for all stalls. V3 are seen in the video and have a single CCS cable. V4 have longer cable and contactless payment terminal. V4 is said to be compatible with up to 1000v when backends get upgraded for 800v cars.

 

Summary of that video is 28 minutes 4% to 80%.  Extrapolate to 200 miles range in all weather means up to 150 miles per hop, 30min charge.

Long range is similar percent-wise, at 250 kW peak means still under 30min to charge to 80%. 250 miles in all weather means up to 200 miles per hop, 30min charge.

 

 

For price, let's not forget cars are expensive these days. £40k is the new £30k.

Model Y start at £45k but contains every comfort option by default. Only configurable are tow hitch, enhanced autopilot and colour/wheel options.

Superb 2015 used to start at £20k: https://www.parkers.co.uk/skoda/superb/review/

Superb now starts at £31k, 150% price inflation and goes all the way to £41k, all before optional extras: https://www.skoda.co.uk/new-cars/range

 

The Telsa is still seen as an aspirational car by most I think, even though the Superb is more affordable in its lower trim levels and I feel back up my thoughts that the modern trend towards digital integration of controls for a clean uncluttered look leads people to the Telsa. The Superb has a certain ring of an old mans car about it.

 

It is undeniable that there are far more Telsa's on the UK's roads then there are Superbs which might also be explained by its appear to the younger driver and also companies buying them in order to appear greener and as well maybe better BIK on tax laws?

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

The Model 3 charging video mentioned charge rate dropped to just below 50 kWh at 86% so that is only 29%, two sevenths, of the initial and brief 175 kWh charging so only adding 3 and a half miles per minute at the charger.  TESLA advice is go ahead and charge the LFP battery Model 3, and presumably the Y as well but that is pretty slow and not really economic for me to sit around with it charging that slowly. 

 

Wonder if I can buy in Ireland and get it as an export as Model 3 standard range in Ireland is 43k Euros which is less than £37k and if one could get a VAT free export that would be more like £30k, just have to avoid the double 10% import duty as I think these are Chinese made.  Getting it RHD could be the issue for a European made one.  Long range Model 3, with Lithium ion battery pack is 51k in Ireland which is £43.6k, without the VAT £35.5k so TESLA are being sold much cheaper in Ireland and other EU countries than GB sadly.

 

Long range model Y is currently selling for 51,250 Euros which is £43.8k which is £35.6k without VAT if I am calculating right at 23% standard rate in Ireland.

 

TESLAs seem quite a bit cheaper in Ireland than the UK which has not seen the same percentage of reductions that European has seen recently ie 5 to 7% I recall hearing.

 

The manual does indeed state that you should whenever possible fully charge to 100% as it has the newer models have the LFP battery but however their website says otherwise (apparently) and the new recommendation is to charge it to 100% once a week and not each time. A full charge is only required to help calibrate the car's computers to calibrate the expected range. Continually charging to 100% will lead to battery degradation.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The advise on charging to 100% for LFP is more for home/destination charging.

 

The in-car nav will tell you when you have enough to continue your journey, it usually leaves 10% buffer, with temperature, wind, weather condition, elevation, traffic, etc taken into account. So during long journey, it is unlikely you'll ever need to sit and wait for 100%.

 

(Also, it's kW for charge rate and kWh for battery capacity)

 

Yes of course, silly me.

 

I am happier with Joules per second and kJ, MJ, GJ etc, much better.

Edited 29 January, 20242 yr by lol-lol

It is indeed kW for chargers, as in 3.5, 7, 11, 22, 43 / 45. 50, 80, 100+  

But then it is kW for power of the motor  as in kW, or PS or BHP.

 

What you really might need to know with a 30, 50, 60, 80, 100 kW battery is what the Average Charge will be from a 50 kW charger, or a 125, 150 kW etc.

 

So how many kW will you get in am hour,  10-80% maybe, 20-100% etc.    No wonder people get confused. 

 

The Chargers can not even show what the MINIMUM kW they are about to deliver before starting to charge, maybe because the charger is cold, the cars battery is cold or just it is a crap charger when used with some EV.s

Listen to this guy.   @15.30. 

  32.6 kW / kWh is a battery size, you can not equate that to power.  Just the size of the battery.  Max charge is 50kW and the average on a 50 kW charger will be 33 kW, as in 33 kW in an hour.

  The power is 135kW. 184 hp, 199 lb/f torque.

 

There is no Sport Plus.

There are different Dynamic Settings TC, Dybamic, OFF, then 2 regen settings.

Battery is under 30 kW usable.

 

What kind of Reduced Overnight rate is is thinking of?

34 kWh @ 30 pence is £10.50    Day time rate. Anytime for those without discount.

34 @ 15 pence is £4.13

 

So 34 kWh, near empty to 100% at 10 pence is £3.40

@ 7 pence £2.38. 

 

Max 

 

Edited 29 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

Now here is a question, I wonder if anyone can seriously answer it and this is a serious question that could have some serious consequences later on and if you're like me, interested in cars then you will probably also be into old barn finds and there are loads of videos of peoples old abandoned private collections being discovered and sold off for restoration and likewise there are loads of "Will it start after X years" etc, where they come along with fresh fuel, plugs, hoses etc and get them running again and then into restoration.

 

What will be the chances of getting old barn find EV's in the future and getting them up and running again and even full restoration? I mean, by the time they are discovered, the batteries are likely to be beyond recovery, no two cars use the exact same batteries and even if they did, it would be impossible would it not to swap them over in situ etc? So would be the likelihood of such finds just being to being confined to being a car destined for the scrapyard and ultimately crushed?

Batteries can be replaced.  & with a bigger battery as is happening now.  As in Robert from Fully Chargered,s car.

 

There were EV,s left parked during Covid lockdown (Nissan Leaf) and full of mould, a health hazard, locked and without power and these were uplifted without being opened and removed supposedly for disposal.

Council leased vehicles and an absolute disgrace and waste of public money.

 

I should have taken the registration numbers but i might have these in photos so will see if i can check if scrapped. 

But I'm not talking about car being left a few months over winter, I'm talking about cars being left so long that they be classics and things like new batteries just will not be available as I mentioned before, it seems as if each car uses different battery packs, and physical sizes, connections attachments etc.

 

 

 

 

There is nothing Not Available is there from Mass Manufactures or even low production. 

 

Is your point there will be no Electric Classics? 

 

We will know when people find them.

There are Electric Cars over 100 years old.   I am watching Quest +1 just now and Wayne on Chasing Classic Cars is trading a Baker from the early 1900,s i think.

That would be a good barn find. 

 

It sat for 40-50 years, 

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

It is indeed kW for chargers, as in 3.5, 7, 11, 22, 43 / 45. 50, 80, 100+  

But then it is kW for power of the motor  as in kW, or PS or BHP.

 

What you really might need to know with a 30, 50, 60, 80, 100 kW battery is what the Average Charge will be from a 50 kW charger, or a 125, 150 kW etc.

 

So how many kW will you get in am hour,  10-80% maybe, 20-100% etc.    No wonder people get confused. 

 

The Chargers can not even show what the MINIMUM kW they are about to deliver before starting to charge, maybe because the charger is cold, the cars battery is cold or just it is a crap charger when used with some EV.s

 

Your under selling my home pod point, it is 3.6 kWs I believe.

 

Charged last 3 nights and battery went from 11% to 92% and range showing 220 mile. 

 

Princely cost of £4.28 assuming 90% charging efficiency. Oh the unbearable cost. UK government got about 21p tax on the VAT, ouch.

 

Will use the Arkana tomorrow and Wednesday to do about 300 miles so some excise and vat coming Gov's way before month end. Will not need to fill up as have to over 500 miles range on Arkana 50 litre tank and already done 105 miles in it, nice.

 

35 minutes ago, Rooted said:

There is nothing Not Available is there from Mass Manufactures or even low production. 

 

Is your point there will be no Electric Classics? 

 

We will know when people find them.

There are Electric Cars over 100 years old.   I am watching Quest +1 just now and Wayne on Chasing Classic Cars is trading a Baker from the early 1900,s i think.

That would be a good barn find. 

 

It sat for 40-50 years, 

No, I understand that something might well be able to be made to order, but in order to know if its worthwhile doing so, you might like to find out about the rest of the car, body etc, do the electrics and the power unit work. Like people do with ICE cars, they see if the engines are seized etc, and often they can get them started just like in the video I linked to, as that would be a good place to start in deciding a cars possible future. 

 

In real terms ICE electrics have not changed all that much from the point of view of ignition coils, plugs, leads, points, starter motors etc on legacy cars, it is always possible to rig up something like a gravity feed tank to get fuel to the carburettor etc. How will we do this with electric cars is the question, they are way more complicated. 

Edited 29 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

What you really might need to know with a 30, 50, 60, 80, 100 kW battery is what the Average Charge will be from a 50 kW charger, or a 125, 150 kW etc.

Sorry to point this out.... kWh for energy capacity   

 

Energy is power delivered over a period of time. It is the area under power-time plot (charging curve plots). So power is kW (PS, BHP are non-SI units) and energy is kWh. Although Joules is the SI unit for energy, but we keep it simple with kWh, in line with Amp-hour. 

 

ICE car is not so different. Fuel tank contains XX kWh of energy and engine outputs kW. 

 

7 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No, I understand that something might well be able to be made to order, but in order to know if its worthwhile doing so, you might like to about the rest of the car, body etc, do the electrics and the power unit work. Like people do with ICE cars, they see if the engines are seized etc, and often they can get them started just like in the video I linked to, as that would be a good place to start in deciding a cars possible future. 

 

In real terms ICE electrics have not changed all that much from the point of view of ignition coils, plugs, leads, points, starter motors etc on legacy cars, it is always possible to rig up something like a gravity feed tank to get fuel to the carburettor etc. How will we do this with electric cars is the question, they are way more complicated. 

Likely need replacement battery and motor (windings age and short?), probably also new power electronics.

But with replacement battery and motor, it becomes the Ship of Theseus.

Similarly, are classic cars converted to EV still classic cars? Where do you place the soul of a car? 

 

I think there is an element fear of unknown, how will we do all this when it hasn't been done before. But don't under estimate human ingenuity. Where there is sufficient will, it is always possible. 

@wyx087No need to explain this **** to me, i plug in charge up and drive and pay or not.

Best get the sales people and vloggers to understand it so those that might end up driving the do.

 

 

@Graham ButcherIt is worthwhile if someone thinks it is worthwhile.   Even crap old EV,s get welding and kept on the road. 

 You really are trying hard to make something sound difficult, impossible or not worth the bother.

 

There are people converting ICE vehicles to EV,s, Classic or just unusual ICE vehicles.  Any enthusiast will be able to recommission an EV to be an EV and maybe an improved EV. 

 

He knows Aberdeen is not on the West coast, it will have been a brain fart.

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 January, 20242 yr by Rooted