@Graham ButcherI understand what you are talking about, but to save 60 year old cars it takes 60 years to pass.

 

If someone can be bothered saving a bucket of rust that was 10 years old that cost them £1,000 it just shows what some Boiler Suited guys or gals that can weld can do.

 

So maybe someone not yet born and that will not be born for another 40 years might decide when they are 20 years old to save an EV from 2024.

 

PS

Lets see in another 80 years how a bunch of people get on renovating some New Jets recently put into service.

Edited 31 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

A summary of Islington's previous EV benefits:

Quote

At one point they looked very favourably at BEVs - there was a heavily discounted charging scheme like ridiculously (and unsustainably) cheap with access to mostly 7/11kW posts and a couple of UltraCharge 500s. The leccy was free but there was a token joining fee and annual sub. They paid CYC to mangle it all. No typo. Anyhow that all got too hard, broken, mangled (and unsustainable), so after chucking good council tax money at it, they abandoned it completely by the time of pandemic.

Resident parking permits were free for EVs for a few years. They’re now expensive and based on battery size. They charge extra for additional cars at the same address and BEVs are no different.

Visitor parking: around 2020 it was 20p to park a BEV for the duration of a bay stay. In 2022 that jumped to £2 for a full bay stay. As of 1 January no discount whatsoever - there are instead peak rates that get charged from 10am to 1pm of £7.40 per hour reducing to £6.90 in all other daylight hours. Too many yummy mummies in black MYs really.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/westminster-cheap-parking-to-end.182876/#post-3561364

 

So knowing the full picture, it is clear that recent changes are actually EV benefits in Islington and Westminster are being cut because there's so many of the cars on the road now. Similar to 2025 VED for EV's, it brings EV in line with ICE cars. The early adopter phrase has ended.

MFG buying 337 Morrison,s Filling stations & forecourts is fair enough and more than 400 associated site to develop ultra rapid EV charging hubs.

 

I was going to use the chargers near Edinburgh Airport this week despite the cost and they were all occupied so i had to head to a PodPoint not much cheaper and get a charge there.

Good that they are providing the service but the cost is really too high for many including me, but then the Council Chargers are not that cheap and worse than that unreliable.

Edited 31 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

22 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Talk about mixed messages, one minute they are trying to push people down the electric route, next they are trying to stick their hands again into our pockets and say that now that people are making the switch and there are more electric vehicles on the streets, they now want to charge you inflated charges for parking, of upto 1800% increase just because you have an EV.

Let's examine the Westminster consolation (link I provided in my previous post) to see whether EV are being charged inflated prices:

 

As I suspected, EV, being zero local emission, are still cheaper than ICE cars.

 

I also thin 70 kWh is a good cut off point as it incentivise people buying the standard range version rather than the  "long range" because they might need it one blue moon. Myself is ashamed of this.

 

Thank you, so useful as i have been cold often when charging as i had not changed to that setting.

 

*Vid shows in title  -3* oC % then he is talking about 3* oC,  a difference of 6 degrees celcius right there even if he shows a screen with weather @ -4*oC*

 

As to charging below 0*oC or above or lots above it is all pretty much of a muchness as i have experienced and with a cold battery or a battery that has just been running 100 miles makes very little difference.   Chargers are very very different though.

As to hotter ambient temps i have found charging slower up above 20*oC the few times i charged in the sun, it throttles back more to not overheat.

 

Yesterday was warmish about 10*oC and i did 97 miles from 100% and got home with 21% and 20 miles range showing and the car saying 3.8 miles a kw/h.

Charged on the 3 pin and the car says it took 28 kWh, and the meter for the house says 34 kWh.  (@21 pence a kWh = £7.14)

(12 hours 6 minutes charging, 16.25 - 04.29 am)

 

Warmer this morning, 100% and 107 miles. 

   Drove 2 x 2 miles,  going down hill getting 6 miles a kWh, and back up showing 4.2 miles a kWh. and oddly car showing 100% and 103 miles. 

 

Narrower All Season tyres Maxxis AP III Premitra and narrower 16" rims instead of 17" going on on Wednesday and then a good few hundred miles to do after that but looks like being back to colder weather. 

(That will be good for comparison to the same charger to charger trips in the same temperatures on the Vredstein tyres and the Maxxis, a few extra miles range would be nice, even 5 miles...That can make a big difference really about touching cloth or not.)

 

................

The one in the Video is a Pre-face change car, it has Fog lights, first registered in Scotland. (Edinburgh)

I see from his other Vid it has Matrix headlights, mine does not. 

Edited 3 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

19 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Charged on the 3 pin and the car says it took 28 kWh, and the meter for the house says 34 kWh

 

 

28 v 34kWh. Interesting. Over 17% difference. Domestic meters are certified accurate better than 2% for Class A in the worst case.

 

So that looks as if figures given by EV board computers are no more accurate than ICE cars. Strange how they are always on the optimistic side. I would think electricity consumption should be easy to measure accurately.

 

This suggests that drivers are being fooled by their EVs, miles per kwh, kwh charge etc. Not many would think to cross check their car against their home meter.

 

 

You get the same when charging on Public chargers. Losses from what the Battery Capacity is and the Useable, then what you are charged for electricity taken and what the car or apps shows you use.

 

The Battery is only 32.6 kWh and 28.9 kWh usable and it was showing as having 20% when charging started. 

 

@lol-lolcommented in another post that the 5% loss from the car and the houses meter was not bad.

 

Then there is the kWh and the battery charged, and if the battery is having to be heated while charging there is that electricity used, or heating the cars interior, or pre heating the car before leaving is using electricity from the mains but not charging the battery. 

 

Waiting on my new Smart Meter, they have been telling me for 15 years i need a new meter and am legally required to have one.

At some point about 10 years ago i had to checked and it was fine. 

Edited 3 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

Data can come from many points in the chain.

 

Energy into the motor? -> traction only, not accounting climate and accessaries.

Energy from the battery when driving? -> not accounting for when car is parked. (Tesla counts this)

All energy from the battery?   (such as vampire drain, pre-conditioning usage, sentry mode usage)

All energy goes into the battery?

Energy delivered at dispenser unit? How is the car going to know about losses between battery input and dispenser unit?

Energy went through the meter, with transmission losses before the charge point?

 

Electricity is very efficient in everything (eg. heating, LED lighting, battery storage, inverter/rectifier, transmission) , but there are many small percentage losses everywhere. At some point, a decision must be made on where to measure.

 

I personally don't see any problem only measuring battery consumption during driving. Remembering electricity is priced at 7.5p/kWh for well over 90% of my EV charging.  😜

 

 

 

Today, I drove into London, parked up about 10min walk from Buckingham Palace, a street away from St James' Palace for £1.34 (Westminster 10min parking fee for EV's, max stay 4 hours). This 20 odd miles trip would cost ~60p in electricity at most. No congestion charge, Might as well get most out of parking discounts before it goes away.

4 hours ago, Rooted said:

You get the same when charging on Public chargers. Losses from what the Battery Capacity is and the Useable, then what you are charged for electricity taken and what the car or apps shows you use.

 

The Battery is only 32.6 kWh and 28.9 kWh usable and it was showing as having 20% when charging started. 

 

@lol-lolcommented in another post that the 5% loss from the car and the houses meter was not bad.

 

Then there is the kWh and the battery charged, and if the battery is having to be heated while charging there is that electricity used, or heating the cars interior, or pre heating the car before leaving is using electricity from the mains but not charging the battery. 

 

Waiting on my new Smart Meter, they have been telling me for 15 years i need a new meter and am legally required to have one.

At some point about 10 years ago i had to checked and it was fine. 

 

I think this is where that sort of information came from......

Renault went their own way and hence they have this feature they have had for more than a decade of being able to charge at a variety of single phase and 3 phase amperage..

Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 (2021) AC charging characteristics (Active power consumption) measurement

Not always a fanboy of WhatCar as they can be a bit lightweight on real details and even here they talk about charging at around 30p per kWh when most EV drivers charge at home and I would have thought the majority of them have night time tariffs of less than 10p a KWh but that said I thought below summarised the economic Truth about Electric Cars, mentioned the environmental issues many EV drivers have concerns about and one of a few key points not mentioned was the attractiveness of electric car acquisition via the UK government Treasury Salary Sacrifice scheme, which I hope to join in the next few months to acquire a TESLA which is clearly streets ahead of other brands, perhaps Renault/Dacia being in the place TESLA is not ie relatively cheap EVs......

 

 

 

Those considering salary sacrifice for a car need to check out the impact on their pension.

 

The impact varies by pension scheme so some are affected more than others.

 

Those in LGPS based on final salary for example could be paying for that leased car for the rest of their lives if within three years of retirement.

 

https://www.dyfedpensionfund.org.uk/media/1215/dpf-salary-sacrifice-factsheet-english.pdf

 

The sacrifice promoters will say it's negligible but really it's relative.

 

Individuals need to work it out for themselves to see if it's worth it.

27 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

most EV drivers charge at home

... except those living in inner city areas with no driveway and having to park on the road. Solutions are being developed and tested for them but are not yet widely rolled out

 

30 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Treasury Salary Sacrifice scheme

Interesting for those employed on a permanent basis but no help to those on zero hours contracts, self employed or retired.

 

It seems to me that charging and cost solutions are being developed for the "low hanging fruit" of potential EV owners when what is needed is a solution for all drivers if the 2035 deadline is going to be enforced.

4 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

... except those living in inner city areas with no driveway and having to park on the road. Solutions are being developed and tested for them but are not yet widely rolled out

 

Interesting for those employed on a permanent basis but no help to those on zero hours contracts, self employed or retired.

 

It seems to me that charging and cost solutions are being developed for the "low hanging fruit" of potential EV owners when what is needed is a solution for all drivers if the 2035 deadline is going to be enforced.

 

Maybe a question of cost too ?

 

I paid £450 for my driveway charger, £500 subsidy, government got some VAT in it I suppose. Now no grants and chargers cost £900 at least and there is no grants for house, something for flats I seem to remember reading.

 

So street chargers have to be paid for by who ?  All on our council taxes or by private companies who will need to charge enough to recover the CAPEX as well as the electricity usage.

 

I think the supermarket, fast food places, garden centres might be the best solution rather than lamp posts, charging posts on the kerb. I had a bit to do with Source London and there certainly were lots of challenges with local council approvals, plumbing them in, ICE'ing etc.  Let the likes of Sainsburys, McD get in to it, and maybe universities like here in Worcestershire.  

 

https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/

 

MFG is Owned by Clayton, Dubilier & Rice

 

Have just agreed a deal to buy all Morrisons petrol stations

 

Morrisons is owned by  Clayton, Dubilier & Rice

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Maybe a question of cost too ?

 

I paid £450 for my driveway charger, £500 subsidy, government got some VAT in it I suppose. Now no grants and chargers cost £900 at least and there is no grants for house, something for flats I seem to remember reading.

 

So street chargers have to be paid for by who ?  All on our council taxes or by private companies who will need to charge enough to recover the CAPEX as well as the electricity usage.

 

I think the supermarket, fast food places, garden centres might be the best solution rather than lamp posts, charging posts on the kerb. I had a bit to do with Source London and there certainly were lots of challenges with local council approvals, plumbing them in, ICE'ing etc.  Let the likes of Sainsburys, McD get in to it, and maybe universities like here in Worcestershire.  

 

Dave Takes it On has already attempted to address this problem and one of his ideas is to make such houses that have no drive etc, flats etc, have something as simple as a weatherproof 13A 3 pin socket and then people can plug in and charge with an AC charger. The problem with those is the massive shock risks with worn / damaged cables, long leads cannot carry much current without heating up, and also of course the painfully slow charging times, even overnight will not be enough to recharge the battery in many cases.

 

He also advocates cable gullies to be installed at every house, even if you cannot park outside your house, you could maybe park outside a neighbour's and use their gully and power and pay them for the power??? WTF, people would be stealing your power and not driving up your power bill, even with lockable sockets, they will find a way to defeat them and plug in even while you're out. The only real long term solution is to find a way of getting the charge times down to a similar time as it takes to top up ICE vehicles and put the chargers at filling stations.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

https://www.motorfuelgroup.com/

 

MFG is Owned by Clayton, Dubilier & Rice

 

Have just agreed a deal to buy all Morrisons petrol stations

 

Morrisons is owned by  Clayton, Dubilier & Rice

 

Sounds like tax fiddle to me?

17 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Sounds like tax fiddle to me?

 

MFG

 

Our current tariff is £0.79 per kWh. If you are a roaming customer, rates may vary, please check with your service provider.

Filling stations and forecourts and not the shops or even forecourt shops and changing hands is just the same as with the Issa Brothers /EG  Group and ASDA.

Finance and borrowing and shared holding and Spread Betting / Hedging / Tax efficient and what was the Monopolies Commission and now the Competition Commission getting run rings around.   (Why is there only ONE Competitions Commission?)

 

SWARCO / Lloyd Brothers in Scotland have got away with having a Monopoly in Scotland the Scottish Government and Agencies like Transport Scotland conspiring in that being allowed to happen. 

Loads of public money there going to those and such as those.    At least the Commercial Operators are spreading the spending around. Maybe to businesses they have financial interests in.  But that is how commerce an industry works.

Overseas investors and Hedge funds, and Pension Funds, Banks & Institutions and smoke and mirrors.  & Politicians in their pockets

 

Home charging or public charging matters, but the big difference is Private drivers compared to Business users.  Cost / taxes.

 

 

Edited 4 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

Sun 04/02/2024 17:48

 

Hi Graham,

2024 has gone so quickly so far that I’ve barely had time to draw breath – last thing I remember I was tucking into turkey, and here we are staring down the barrel of Valentine’s Day, Easter and the spring and summer season that looms large. It’s gone so fast in fact that a notable piece of automobile-related news completely passed me by, so when I happened upon it this week, I felt like I had to share it. Turns out that the electric vehicle revolution has reached a new landmark stage this year – we now have electric ambulances.

Purely in the city of London, these vehicles are designed to be lightweight, and have a powered trolley bed system, scanning system and a powered carry chair for patient transport. I’m assuming all ambulances are ULEZ-exempt anyway, but this one definitely will be! The big question on everyone’s lips will be the battery life, given just how critical these vehicles are when it comes to saving lives, but apparently they last for a full 12-hour shift, which should – in theory – be plenty. Click here to get all the details, and when you have, I’d love your thoughts – good idea, bad idea? Step too far? Will the queues at the hospital affect how long they’re able to operate for? Let me know what you think,

Grant

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Sun 04/02/2024 17:48

 

Hi Graham,

2024 has gone so quickly so far that I’ve barely had time to draw breath – last thing I remember I was tucking into turkey, and here we are staring down the barrel of Valentine’s Day, Easter and the spring and summer season that looms large. It’s gone so fast in fact that a notable piece of automobile-related news completely passed me by, so when I happened upon it this week, I felt like I had to share it. Turns out that the electric vehicle revolution has reached a new landmark stage this year – we now have electric ambulances.

Purely in the city of London, these vehicles are designed to be lightweight, and have a powered trolley bed system, scanning system and a powered carry chair for patient transport. I’m assuming all ambulances are ULEZ-exempt anyway, but this one definitely will be! The big question on everyone’s lips will be the battery life, given just how critical these vehicles are when it comes to saving lives, but apparently they last for a full 12-hour shift, which should – in theory – be plenty. Click here to get all the details, and when you have, I’d love your thoughts – good idea, bad idea? Step too far? Will the queues at the hospital affect how long they’re able to operate for? Let me know what you think,

Grant

 

They will just need a charging post at A&E then they can be charged for most of the time because patients are still in them waiting to be seen

12 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

They will just need a charging post at A&E then they can be charged for most of the time because patients are still in them waiting to be seen

 

That's exactly what is being installed at each A&E bay plus Ambulance layover bays n a number of hospitals across the country already (I've been involved in three so far)

New video today from one of my favourite channels, enjoy it.

 

 

One thing I've noticed, with doctors car (estate with ambulance marking, I assume it's doctor's car rather than full on ambulance) and police vehicle is that they would park up (my residential area gets them, probably because it's not far from North Circular) and just run their engine while sitting in the car. I get it's their office and all, but there's campaigns to ask people not idle their engine. https://idlingaction.london/

In those instances, EV or even just large battery hybrid make perfect sense.

 

Ambulance, buses, police patrol vehicle all make perfect sense. Sprinkle a bit of computer algorithm in there to allocate vehicle based on charge level, don't even need rapid chargers at base.

1 Million electric cars sold in the UK since 2002, i read on the BBC. 

No idea how many Electric Vans, or they mean Electric vehicles as well in the figures.

 

No word on how many of these Sold / Registered are still on the road or maybe scrapped.  Or on SORN, but surely the DVLA know that.  Maybe even the SMMT do. 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-68199898

 

Maybe there are figures somewhere from the Insurance Underwriters how many have been written off because of Fire or Flood or road accidents. 

Also how many thefts of these 1 million BEV,s.

 

Edited 5 February, 20242 yr by Rooted