@Graham Butcher  The Royal Connection to EV,s is that they are nice to drive, and although they are dead risky so is being a Royal as the Prince of India and KC3,s favourite uncle is an example.

So as i said, as long as they are not home charging on a 3 pin plug at the countries or their Castles should be safe as a safe thing. 

The son and heir did a bit of driving the EV racers in Scotland. 

 

 

 

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

47 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Here is that link you mentioned, nailed it he did.

 

‘Electric cars could end up like Betamax’ | Auto Express

 

The journo should look forward not backwards.

 

In the next few months the Dacia Spring at well under £20k, selling them for less than £13K in Germany, no subsidies. Citreon e3 will also be much cheaper than £32k, more like £22k.

 

I got my Zoe on pcp, retail was £33k but that was artificial high a dealer immediately came up with 6k discount and you the tax payer added another £2.5k as there was EV subsidies then. Low interest with the pcp too. So not on a company car scheme, private arrangement and that is despite having a company fuel card. EV is nice to drive, eco responsible and very cheap to run for energy and servicing, even compared to only paying a fifth the price for fuel due to the fuel card still the EV is as cheap.

It will be an easy choice to go full EV on both cars in a few months as the salary sacrifice for a TESLA Model 3 standard range, no premium road tax, pcp 300 to 400 quid a month with the 40% reduction in monthly cost due to uk government salary sacrifice scheme.

Will miss my mild hybrid Arkana but it has to go as Renault cannot supply cars incapable of driving in EV mode as they and other makers get fined for selling cars over 95 gm per km and they must meet the 22 % pure EV quota too or be fined.

 

 

The crux of the matter is Not cheap to run for private buyers who require to do public rapid charging or even fast charging in some regions. 

 

It matters not how often cheap off peak tariffs or utility scheme discounts are mentioned if the people without those just want a car.

Even a Public Tariff from a Tesla charger around 50 pence a kWh is not that cheap if you get 3 miles to a kWh.   10 kWh = £5.00 for 30 miles. 

 

Talking Super Market Rapid charging and 70 pence a kWh, & 4 miles a kWh is £7.00 for 40 miles and a vehicle who's depreciation is getting to be anyone's guess.

 

Maybe good for those looking for much cheapness though in pretty new EV,s. , those getting cheap charging...

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

41 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@Graham Butcher  The Royal Connection to EV,s is that they are nice to drive, and although they are dead risky so is being a Royal as the Prince of India and KC3,s favourite uncle is an example.

So as i said, as long as they are not home charging on a 3 pin plug at the countries or their Castles should be safe as a safe thing. 

The son and heir did a bit of driving the EV racers in Scotland. 

 

 

 

Listening to that horrible whine would drive me nuts, I'm sure, and yes, I'm talking about the car here.

37 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

The journo should look forward not backwards.

 

In the next few months the Dacia Spring at well under £20k, selling them for less than £13K in Germany, no subsidies. Citreon e3 will also be much cheaper than £32k, more like £22k.

 

I got my Zoe on pcp, retail was £33k but that was artificial high a dealer immediately came up with 6k discount and you the tax payer added another £2.5k as there was EV subsidies then. Low interest with the pcp too. So not on a company car scheme, private arrangement and that is despite having a company fuel card. EV is nice to drive, eco responsible and very cheap to run for energy and servicing, even compared to only paying a fifth the price for fuel due to the fuel card still the EV is as cheap.

It will be an easy choice to go full EV on both cars in a few months as the salary sacrifice for a TESLA Model 3 standard range, no premium road tax, pcp 300 to 400 quid a month with the 40% reduction in monthly cost due to uk government salary sacrifice scheme.

Will miss my mild hybrid Arkana but it has to go as Renault cannot supply cars incapable of driving in EV mode as they and other makers get fined for selling cars over 95 gm per km and they must meet the 22 % pure EV quota too or be fined.

 

 

That remains to be seen, if it is more expensive, I won't be surprised. Most manufacturers never release things at the planned/promised prices.

14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

That remains to be seen, if it is more expensive, I won't be surprised. Most manufacturers never release things at the planned/promised prices.

 

Market leaders like TESLA,  Dacia/ Renault and Stellantis are surprising buyers to the downside on price as they can do so due to their control of production tech and the plummeting price of lithium. The retail price of the Model Y and 3, the Spring, the Renault 5 as is being touted, the Citreon e3 as is being launched is well cheap.

This is possible by using Lithium Iron Phosphate which is vastly cheaper and of course much lower fire risk as well as charging to 100% is ok, only slight downside is a bit lower energy density.

Whilst LFP is the becoming the pervasive battery tech it is looking like sodium is coming along rapidly to market.   Good in low temperatures.

 

Some talk about combining different battery chemisties could be optimal for performance and price.  2024 is going to be a huge launch for so many EVs which I feel are going to get many new converts to EVe from ICE. Maybe spurred on if oil from Middle East gets strangled supply and prices jump up accordingly.

 

Hmm, I don't think that was the case with the Cybertruck, if memory serves me correct, that came out with a massive £15,000 hike in price?

Edited 22 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

Geoff Buys Cars has just made a public apology for his part in the collapse of the European car industry and knocking of EV cars.

 

 

There is a car coming that people could afford??

 

 

I've just watched this BBC programme about electric cars, and its very interesting and also eye-opening. Some may have already watched it but for those that haven't, I give the link below and there are other programmes in the series as well but there really is a massive mountain to climb yet if we are to meet the deadline and even more importantly, retain some resemblance of a car industry in the uk, which is currently one of our biggest earners.

 

In the programme, they show new street chargers being installed that are flush in the pavement, which I can foresee will be problematical with water ingress over the years and potentially knocking out many chargers at the same time, what are your thoughts about this programme and the chargers?

 

BBC iPlayer - What They Really Mean for You - Series 1: 1. Electric Cars

Last post aside, can we please stop with the Hindenburg type and conspiracy theory type posts.

 

The thread is quite close to be closed and I’m not averse to taking further measures if needed.

Edited 23 January, 20242 yr by cheezemonkhai

2 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Last post aside, can we please stop with the Hindenburg type and conspiracy theory type posts.

 

The thread is quite close to be closed and I’m not averse to taking further measures if needed.

With absolute pleasure.

They do trial this sh!t.    Plymouth & Dundee and Dundee has Frosts, Ice and even rain sometimes. 

They never all came up the Tay on a paddle board. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

52 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

The thread is quite close to be closed

I say "go for it"; all the main commentators except Graham Butcher are on my block list anyway.

Great mid winter trip in the Renault Zoe ZE50.

105 miles from Worcester to Manchester, Cheadle to be precise, for a visit to my airfreight office near Manchester Airport.  Only 40% of battery used so plenty to go along to my office and then get home ie about 215 mile round trip.

Zoe showing 5.3 miles per kWh.

Car great in the high winds with its 1.6 tonnes plus me and gear so probably about 1.75 tonnes.

Great to drive past the clean air signs as I enter Manchester and happy I am doing my bit.

Petrol hybrid sitting on drive at home with a near full tank in case we get some more really cold weather in Feb.

Horses for courses.

 

^^^ Great efficiency @lol-lol

I have just done 50 miles of short trips of under 2 miles with AC on and heating turned up and windows a little down to try and keep interior dry.

MINI  was charged to 100% when zeroed on Sunday morning and now at 63% and showing 48 miles range.

 

OK while getting 50 miles @ 21 pence a kWh and being warm, so lets say 12 kWh to recharge so £2.52,

and if i was using the Council Rapid chargers @ 41 pence a kWh that would be £4.92. 

If you have the windows down a bit and the AC turned up, surely thats counteracting the AC and costing you some range? My AC keep the car nice and dry, never any need to open the windows.

 

@Graham ButcherYou have double the interior space, and have you a dog in the car?   What MPG would you get doing 4 or 5 cold starts and 1.5 miles at temps around freezing?

The AC on dries the windows, i am not trying for economy, just comfort. Not having the AC on there was lots of condensation the other week, so Heat up to 28*oC and AC on is fine.

 

The times using the diesel estate this week since filled up on Saturday doing the same thing it is showing 32 mpg now down from the usual 46 MPG, 

and i need to fit a new front tyre tomorrow as i spotted a bulge from hitting a big pothole which is probably the same one a member posted about on a slip road at Perth. 

Another cheapo 245/35 R20 

Edited 24 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

56 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Great mid winter trip in the Renault Zoe ZE50.

105 miles from Worcester to Manchester, Cheadle to be precise, for a visit to my airfreight office near Manchester Airport.  Only 40% of battery used so plenty to go along to my office and then get home ie about 215 mile round trip.

Zoe showing 5.3 miles per kWh.

Car great in the high winds with its 1.6 tonnes plus me and gear so probably about 1.75 tonnes.

Great to drive past the clean air signs as I enter Manchester and happy I am doing my bit.

Petrol hybrid sitting on drive at home with a near full tank in case we get some more really cold weather in Feb.

Horses for courses.

 

I couldn't believe how heavy your car is, given that it does not have a huge diesel engine or gearbox and is almost 80cm shorter than mine, but it is, according to the specification 1563kg without the driver and 408.7cm long. Mine is 486.1cm long and weighs in at 1520kg including the driver and tank full of fuel. I thought a small electric car should be far lighter than a big ICE car, but it seems not. Does it feel heavy to drive?

18 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I couldn't believe how heavy your car is, given that it does not have a huge diesel engine or gearbox and is almost 80cm shorter than mine, but it is, according to the specification 1563kg without the driver and 408.7cm long. Mine is 486.1cm long and weighs in at 1520kg including the driver and tank full of fuel. I thought a small electric car should be far lighter than a big ICE car, but it seems not. Does it feel heavy to drive?

 

The battery pack is around half a tonnes and hence the Zoe weighs about quarter of a tonnes more than a Clio which it is similarly size to.

 

It does not feel heavy in corners as the weight is so low in the car.

 

I think it tells on acceleration ad it is wacking out about 150 hp but only does 0 to 60 in about 9.5 seconds but the 0 to 30 is about 3.5 seconds and it feels quite similar to my 140 hp Arkana and sons 145 hybrid. Of the 3 the Clio is far and away the best handling and power delivery across the range, unless over 100 mph and then the Arkana is the car quite cable of cruising at any speed up to about 110 mph.

 

As I said higher weight makes Zoe feel planned in high winds.

 

All 3 pleasant enough to drive but hybrid clio ticks most boxes except absolute cheapness to run which Zoe EV wins on for fuel cost and servicing costs.

 

Edited 24 January, 20242 yr by lol-lol

@Graham ButcherThey are on pretty narrow tyres and still go round corners well, or kind of well for narrow ECO tyres.

There is power in these smaller EV,s so that really you do not notice weight unless you yomp them over humps on roads or they start sliding on wet roads or icy ones. 

 

Even the big fat / heavy EV,s do not feel that heavy while behaving and gripping the road.

45 minutes ago, Rooted said:

^^^ Great efficiency @lol-lol

I have just done 50 miles of short trips of under 2 miles with AC on and heating turned up and windows a little down to try and keep interior dry.

MINI  was charged to 100% when zeroed on Sunday morning and now at 63% and showing 48 miles range.

 

OK while getting 50 miles @ 21 pence a kWh and being warm, so lets say 12 kWh to recharge so £2.52,

and if i was using the Council Rapid chargers @ 41 pence a kWh that would be £4.92. 

 

Bit disappointed not going to need a rapid charge probably unless I am driving in to a gale and cannot find some van to draft.

 

Stopping at say the Ionity Chargers near the Hawthorn West Brom, grab a Star bucks, chat to fellow EV drivers is a bit of a journey highlight even for just 5 or 10 kWh and a coffee, a few quid, ten to 15 minutes and on my way.

 

@RootedNo, I don't have a dog with me, but the car is normally with either 2, 3 or 4 people in it and the temperature set at default, 22oC with the AC ON and on freezing mornings it does take a while for the engine to get warm enough for the stop/start to kick in so on days like that in city driving in the rush hour dropping everyone off at the places of work the MPG can really suffer, round about 26 to 29 MPG. If however, I'm going in the opposite direction towards the edge of the city where the traffic is lighter, then under the same conditions the MPG is around 36 to 38. On days when I have to take my son all the way to his work place, 12 miles away with 2 miles @ 60mph the rest of the trip is 30 to 40 mph I get around 46 to 48 MPG and in the summer that goes to 52 to 54 MPG.

@Graham Butcher I am posing about under 2 miles. & just saying what i am doing in the MINI, it is not what i did for 3 winters in a Corsa Electric, 

but it had wind deflectors, a very good Heat Pump and no dog in the car. 

 

I have been driving ICE vehicles since my early teens, i know how they work.

Spent many a time with loaded cars going to the Ski-ing and home. 

As to the car temp and setting, very seldom in all those years have i had heating set at more than 18*oC once a car or van has heated up. 

 

PS.

@ 2*oC or lower ambient temp your AC is disabled is it not?

Edited 24 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

12 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@Graham ButcherThey are on pretty narrow tyres and still go round corners well, or kind of well for narrow ECO tyres.

There is power in these smaller EV,s so that really you do not notice weight unless you yomp them over humps on roads or they start sliding on wet roads or icy ones. 

 

Even the big fat / heavy EV,s do not feel that heavy while behaving and gripping the road.

I didn't think that where any modern cars these days on narrow tyres, it seem to be the trend for low profile fat ones now, I have 235/45 R18s.