14 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

No, not a strange rant at all, merely recycling one of your own comments from months ago about posts without supporting evidence.

Do you ever think.... "hum, I better check credibility before I recycle someone's comment pointing out that I don't have credibility"?

You didn't have comeback a few months ago because you don't have credibility. All the stuff I post do. There is a big difference.

 

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Not at all surprising this one, seeing as I don't actually have an EV currently, nor have I ever had one in the past. It was a genuine question

Here you go, first 2 results from Google search: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=what+is+that+cable+being+used+to+charge+ev

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/ev-connector-types-speed

https://blog.evbox.com/uk-en/charging-cables-and-plugs

 

Ignorance is bliss, but asking without thinking or checking is just stupidity.

 

19 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Either way, I can see potential electric shock hazards possibly ensuing from the use of damaged cables. 

Electric shock on EV charge points are impossible because unlike household plugs, additional open-PEN fault protection (or earthing rod) is required by law on EV charge points.

More info here: https://www.stator-electrical.co.uk/electrician-in-nottingham/ev-charging-work-do-i-need-pen-fault-device

 

 

Re limited mobility or adverse weather. There's no one solution fits all. Just like very valid points earlier regarding those who can't use it. This is only a very small step towards giving people the option of driving EV and charging from home tariff. I don't believe government is ignoring those issues, I just think there's many low hanging fruits that can be switched to electric first and then tackle more difficult ones later as BEV technology evolves (or not and hybrid FC becomes viable).

9 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Electric shock on EV charge points are impossible because unlike household plugs, additional open-PEN fault protection (or earthing rod) is required by law on EV charge points.

More info here: https://www.stator-electrical.co.uk/electrician-in-nottingham/ev-charging-work-do-i-need-pen-fault-device

 

 

Re limited mobility or adverse weather. There's no one solution fits all. Just like very valid points earlier regarding those who can't use it. This is only a very small step towards giving people the option of driving EV and charging from home tariff. I don't believe government is ignoring those issues, I just think there's many low hanging fruits that can be switched to electric first and then tackle more difficult ones later as BEV technology evolves (or not and hybrid FC becomes viable).

The other points you raised, I'm not wasting my time responding because it will drag on again.

 

However, on the above point, there is always a risk, I should know that better than you, have worked on the technical side of things with large electrical manufacturing companies making safety devices, they can and do fail, and it is perfectly feasible and possible to fail in an unsafe mode. 

 

Well I knew the Zoe, latest ZE50 version, was a queen of the long range small EVs but Gott im himmel, or should I say Sacre Bleu or the like, just got back from driving from Worcester to Liverpool, work in Liverpool this morning and drive back this afternoon in the little EV and guess how many time I charged up on route ?   

 

Answer below

V

V

V

Drum roll....

V

V

V

V

V

V

Not once !!    Google say 240 miles, Zoe thought it was only 233 miles.

 

And was I in turtle mode at the end of the journey ?  

No still had 25 miles showing in the miles of range left guessommeter, which seems quite accurate on the Zoe (better than Nissan according to Modern Hero is his high mileage Nissan van).   I am blown away just how good the Zoe is on distance. I thought Worcester to Manchester airport and return was about it and not Liverpool which is about another 40 miles further.  Even 233 miles plus 23 is impressive but really it is 240 miles plus 25 miles ie 265 miles range.  Good conditions ie started with ambient temp fo 12C and it was 18C on return.  I am thinking that maybe 300 miles is going to be possible in the Scenic 60 kWh if I can get over 260 in the Zoe.  Wowser.   

 

Oh and will be claiming mileage at 45p per mile tax relief of course.  Cost of energy for this journey 52 kWh at 8.5 pence per KWh from Octopus on new 5 hours per night Go tariff.............. about £4.40 !!!!!!!!   Even my son's etech Clio would have used the best part of £24 of petrol.  Even using my fuel card on the Arkana it would have cost me of £10 on the BIK on 4 gallons of petrol !!    Not even close on fuel costs even with best tax advantages ! 

 

Edited 7 August, 20241 yr by lol-lol

29 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The other points you raised, I'm not wasting my time responding because it will drag on again.

I take exception to you quoting me and talk about lack of evidence despite evidence was clearly provided in the earlier post. 

Therefore I've reported your comment for "Spam, posting without comprehension". 

And I'll no longer respond to you on this matter, as you said, otherwise it will drag on and on. 

 

36 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

However, on the above point, there is always a risk, I should know that better than you, have worked on the technical side of things with large electrical manufacturing companies making safety devices, they can and do fail, and it is perfectly feasible and possible to fail in an unsafe mode. 

Ok, if you knew so much surely you can name all the residential earthing schemes and when/why we need O-PEN protection. Also how O-PEN protections fail and I'm particularly interested to learn exactly how they "fail in an unsafe mode". 

 

“The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.” 

Put it another way, when you know you have surface level understanding, it is best to shut up. 

 

I'm always very happy to learn. I've learnt enough to made decisions for my home installations, but would be glad to learn more from you, by the way you post. 

But remember, credible sources only. Ideally referencing BS 7671. 

Good news for people wanting a channel for a cable in Bolton.

 

"While installation of this kind would normally require home owners to pay for a £565 street works permit, Bolton Council is waiving the fee for a temporary trial basis. The council said they must be notified of any installation and is urging those wishing to install cabling to use reputable contractors only."

 

 

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/24487452.bolton-council-waive-fee-encourage-electric-cars/

I do like the car wizard

 

 

 

Very good and informative video from Harry's Garage.

 

 

There’s no doubt (Z)EVs have their place but the Government mandates are misplaced. Let the market decide. 

Missed by miles / ev miles because VW Group had all the stuff about under £20,000 & under £25,000 EV,s and could not do it and get them sold.

They stupidly did not ramp up UP!MiiCitigo electrics.  

Truth being not enough chips or batteries.

 

Dacia never got the Spring on sale in the UK.

Tesla never did the cheaper model  & Stellantis never dropped the prices.

 

So now they are stuffed and are going to have to import and first register cars and punt the cheap, maybe at a loss to save from paying a £15,000 penalty on the ICE vehicles. 

The madness in the uk is pushing for Zero Emissions and excluding hybrids and targeting emissions

The UK is in danger of becoming a second class country in terms of new car sales

I'm beginning to think that ZEV mandate needs to be dropped all together, like Harry said, but however, I would go a stage further and limit the size of future ICE engines to help make the emissions even lower and as Harry pointed out, they are getting really low already and remove politics from the equation apart from giving the engineers some money injections to help with their research into smaller, more efficient powerful and low emission engines and then leave it to market forces to decide the future. There are way too many obstacles to overcome in too short a time frame to make it that an all electric new car market even by 2035 let alone 2030, which we are going to be an outlier if the Government decide to push that button.

 

There is a place for electric cars in the world and if it suits you and you can actually make it work for you without a massive impact on your life, then go for them.

 

   

 

Edited 11 August, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

Madness of the Westminster Government that was Conservative and Unionist and the Labour Party in waiting being no smarter.

 

But then Politicians do not pay for their travel expenses for work or even lots of time for their families to get about. 

The UK is what it is and England is what it is.  

Lacking Energy be it Electric or Fossil Fuels or Energy Security from Bio or Synthetic fuels, because resources poor. 

 

Leave the EU and pith off the world, and support Oil Rich countries in killing the innocent and still have no energy security.

You reap what you sow.

 

The Labour Party think they can stop Petroineos doing what they want in Scotland.

 

The Billionaire Business (Steel) Magnets are hands out again to keep open the works that the UK public have put billions into foe decades. 

Edited 11 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Daddy Doug’s take from the other side of the pond

 

 

https://youtu.be/VGIORVjqWto?si=7mvcDE6nqBujwKRq

Really Mericans, Australians and others are on whole different continents. 

Mericans have a car and vehicle manufacturing industry and Australia has not.

Plus big places with different parts of the countries with very different ideas on Energy, pollution, climates and even water. 

 

The Far East will be what makes a difference on what happens in Europe, and in America & Australia and elsewhere around the globe. 

I get that the Merkins especially are a different market from the UK but many of the points he commented on resonate regardless of location.

But there are many Plug in Hybrid cars on the market because this is Europe.

& the Government made them cheap for Business users regardless of if they run on electric. 

 

So location location location matters.   But then in the UK a £40,000 limit or over makes a difference to many. 

 

The Car Manufacturers caused their own problem by keeping pumping out big fat fuel guzzlers that make profits and then electrifying them for the Tax Reasons 

and not just getting on with sensible cars at sensible prices that go as far as they are supposed to according to Fake Testing,  WLTP / RDE2.

 

Diesel Hybrids can work, but VW / BMW / Daimler Benz were caught cheating.

Yes there are differences but there are also commonalities such as government interference, infrastructure & home charging challenges

Yes,

And differences across the USA on infrastructure and tax benefits,

as there is across Europe / EU or UK. 

 

EU Interference really is a major issue. the WLTP con that is no more World Wide than fly in the air. 

Just a nonsense as is EU Countries that have held back years of improving engine efficiencies. 

Kicking Euro 7 emissions into the future as much as they could get away with. 

 

Euro 7 Emissions meaning that manufacturers will not offer small ICE vehicles. 

There are electrified though with MHEV,s. 

Edited 11 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

56 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

The madness in the uk is pushing for Zero Emissions and excluding hybrids and targeting emissions

Last time I checked, hybrids can't do zero emissions.

(We are talking about 1999 Prius style hybrids aren't we?)

 

The previous 2030 ban was on pure ICE vehicles. Some level of hybrid powertrain is still allowed. Not much detail is in this government's 2023 pure ICE vehicle ban.

What will be the big issue will be 2nd Hand / Used EV,s on the market in the UK and their loss of value to who owns them which is the Financial Institutions manly other than were there is a Owner that bought with their own money.

 

If the Manufacturers / Importers have to unload enough EV,s to meet the 22% Zero Emission target this year then there will be an affect on used sales. 

 

An issue for the Government and everyone's works Pensions with whatever Fund Managers probably. 

 

The Budget Announcement will be important and any othef announcement from the Chancellor or the Secretary of State for Transport, Energy or whoever. 

15 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Last time I checked, hybrids can't do zero emissions.

(We are talking about 1999 Prius style hybrids aren't we?)

 

The previous 2030 ban was on pure ICE vehicles. Some level of hybrid powertrain is still allowed. Not much detail is in this government's 2023 pure ICE vehicle ban.

You are correct however whilst Europe is focussing on emission reduction by any means the Uk is mad set on making everything zero emission full stop 

The UK really has not that much of a car manufacturing industry for the home market & they can not meet the requirements that will not have them meeting the percentage of parts from Europe or the EU, and will have even less since really we have not the materials to build them without those being imported from the far east or the Americas, North or Southm and certainly not the chips or batteries or the facilities to manufacture with imported materials.

 

As it is the Car Workers there are in the UK will very likely with the encouragement of the unions be balloting for strike action over a demand for better pay and working condition.

It is the British way. 

Cut your nose off to spite your face.  

Hot take alert: Other than a few specialist low volume manufacturers (who are either exempt from the ZEV mandate or have much lower targets to meet) does the UK even have a car manufacturing industry anymore?  isn't it more car assembly industry with a number of "Brtish Brands" ?
The only truly British car manufacturer that comes to mind is Morgan

Well there is NISSAN obviously, ICE, Hybrid & the BEV,s are seemingly a major part of their future. 

There is BMW / MINI even though the electric cars will not be built in the UK for maybe another couple of years.

JLR. Toyota & Vauxhall. 

 

Lots of their vehicles built in the UK are for export. 

 

@Winston_Woof  Do you just mean British Owned.  British money and directors and owners building British for British People & roads?

 

Investindustry own the majority of Morgan and the Family have a minority holding?

Edited 12 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere