@Winston_Woof watch this space as they say, the signs are looking likely that there will be a massive delay in the Zero Tailpipe emissions plan in the not so distant timeline.

I always had my doubts about the speed of change from a tried and tested technology to a new and emerging one that we are not yet fully aware of all its pitfalls. Yes, there are many arguments for it on a pure local level, but there are other disadvantages, some known already, but many are prepared to sweep them under the carpet so to speak and label them as project fear all over again.

 

It might help us all if we could all see our leaders all put their money where their mouth is and lead from the front, but when they are still going around in their far more polluting cars than most of ours are, you wonder why is that?  

 

I expect somebody will say it's because their cars are armoured and they of course need that protection, well if that is true now, it will also be true in 2030/35 when ever the date will be when the total ban on new ICE cars comes into force.

My late father was a military man, and he always told me that the military had a motto about leading from the front, never ask / tell anyone to do something that you are not prepared to do yourself and the best way to prove that you are prepared to do it, is to be seen to be doing it for all to see.

Edited 14 August, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

 

It might help us all if we could all see our leaders all put their money where their mouth is and lead from the front, but when they are still going around in their far more polluting cars than most of ours are, you wonder why is that?  

Maybe they should put their mouths over the tail pipes of their own vehicles ;o)

Watch this space. The last quarter 2024 and those crapping themselves as the EV,s have to get first registered and the value of the used ones drop.  The manufacturers are going to have to ration those cars and vans not Zero Emissions.     Auctions, banks, car importers, manufacturers.  Fleet managers and companies.     Sh|t creak for some. 

Octopus giving an hour of free lecky from 1pm today.

 

In a counter move the petrol station are thinking of giving a happy hour of free fuel.

Nah, made that bit up.

 

In a counter move the petrol stations are not charging you 60p a day just for existing 😉

9 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

In a counter move the petrol stations are not charging you 60p a day just for existing 😉

 

But one pays that anyways on one's electrical supply.

As another bonus one is only charged 5% VAT rather than 20% with dinosaur juice with all the noxious byproduct gases when burning and then producing the carcinogens.

 

30 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

But one pays that anyways on one's electrical supply.

As another bonus one is only charged 5% VAT rather than 20% with dinosaur juice with all the noxious byproduct gases when burning and then producing the carcinogens.

 

5% on domestic electric
20% on business electric (with some exceptions)

That extra 15% could be the difference maker for some.

10 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

5% on domestic electric
20% on business electric (with some exceptions)

 

Unfair to those who charge in public and have to pay the higher rate of Value Added Tax.

 

One of Con MPs highlighted this during PMQs and Sunak did not answer the question at all. Pathetic. 

Hope Labour sorts this out even if it is lowering the VAT rate on public supply in several stages.

IMO should restore the Excise duty escalator at least inline with inflation.

 

Just now, lol-lol said:

 

Unfair to those who charge in public and have to pay the higher rate of Value Added Tax.

 

One of Con MPs highlighted this during PMQs and Sunak did not answer the question at all. Pathetic. 

Hope Labour sorts this out even if it is lowering the VAT rate on public supply in several stages.

IMO should restore the Excise duty escalator at least inline with inflation.

 

why is it unfair?

It's still less tax then is imposed overall on petrol & diesel.

Why should EV owners pay less tax  or get preferential treatment?

Perfectly acceptable that Public chargers have VAT added at 20% 

53 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

But one pays that anyways on one's electrical supply.

As another bonus one is only charged 5% VAT rather than 20% with dinosaur juice with all the noxious byproduct gases when burning and then producing the carcinogens.

 

I could also give you an example of large scale hazmac with many people hospitalised and hundreds made homeless by an EV bursting into fire and it was not on charge and been parked for days, but so many EV people would find a way to rubbish it as always. I did predict this was going to happen and is one reason why HM Governement has placed a ban on EVs in their underground car parks. I dread to think what the consquences would be when BEVs form the majority of cars in car parks, the consequences of such an event like the I mention above setting off loads of BEV's into thermal runaway could possible kill all the occupants of the tower block above such an underground car park fire. 

Edited 15 August, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

11 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Unfair to those who charge in public and have to pay the higher rate of Value Added Tax.

 

One of Con MPs highlighted this during PMQs and Sunak did not answer the question at all. Pathetic. 

 

I expect that he asked more because he was out of pocket rather than asking because of his constituents?

Business users able to claim back the 20% VAT from the public charging. 

 

The Reason EV drivers should be paying less that the Duty & VAT on Duty or less VAT on Electric is because it was about the incentive to change to EV,s.

 

So it is the Business Users getting the BIK and the VAT back on the public charging and the UK Government helped the Car Trade sell EV,s that were overpriced then got a grant to make the price look more acceptable.

Then that was dumped. 

 

So the Cunning Stunt from some stunning c-uknt,s sort of bunged money towards some company cars drivers getting very expensive models cheaply and the depreciation not being that important to them. 

Edited 15 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

54 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I could also give you an example of large scale hazmac with many people hospitalised and hundreds made homeless by an EV bursting into fire and it was not on charge and been parked for days,

Please do. I've not seen this in any credible the news.

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-08-11/business/industry/Insurance-claims-pile-up-amid-escalating-blame-game-over-Mercedes-EV-fire/2110407

@Graham Butcher  Is this UK Government ban on EV,s in their car parks about our car parks?

 

Is it Car Parks used by the UK Government, or under building used by the Government.    Owned by us, the UK public. 

Is it all underground car parks or just some?

 

The Scottish Government have not banned EV,s from the Underground Car Park at the parliament building @ Holyrood.

 

I Hope KC3 will be keeping EV,s well clear of Windsor Castle. We paid to restore that already. 

It's free electricity time.

 

Because it's the first time and works by refunding as credit. I don't want to be paying too much in case something doesn't work on their back end. So I'm just setting the car to charge at 8 amps and Leaf V2H to idle. Test it out by consuming about 1 kWh over my usual consumption of 50 Wh.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-08-11/business/industry/Insurance-claims-pile-up-amid-escalating-blame-game-over-Mercedes-EV-fire/2110407

"Around 500 households suffered from electricity or water supply outages for a week.  "

 

Is this the one referenced by Graham? Where is hundreds made hopeless part?

Re the nearly fully charged EV,s mentioned in the article @Stonekeeper, WTF.

 

So is it nearly empty, or half charged or 75% charged fine. 90% not.

 

@wyx087

That is probably the 500 households suffering water outages.  So 'homeless' or water and electricity less. 

 

@Graham Butcher  over 34,000 dead in Gaza.

Homes levelled to the ground.   Wars all around the world.     

Wars over land & resources. Oil & Gas and minerals to build vehicles.

 

So we are not stopping those deaths, or climate change,or anything.  Fire kills, bombing people kills.  (Lets celebrate how great War Planes / Bombers were / are.)

What a crap world. 

 

But anyway, have a war on EV,s.   Tell us how many accidents there are with EV,s, or Geoff Buy,s Cars can tell us, and how an industrial accident kills a car worker. 

 

 

Edited 15 August, 20241 yr by Ootohere

"A preliminary investigation by the Incheon Fire Department revealed that the fire was detected by the receiver momentarily after the vehicle busted into flames at 6:09 a.m., but the pre-action valve, which controls the sprinkler system, was turned off from the apartment management office.
  
The sprinkler system will not activate despite receiving a fire alarm if the valve is deactivated. "

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-08-09/business/industry/Damage-after-EV-explosion-caused-by-deactivated-sprinkler-system-fire-authorities-say/2109713

17 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Is this the one referenced by Graham? Where is hundreds made hopeless part?

Yes it is the one, and there are many reports and videos of it and also a Kia 5 days later. The hopeless part, I think if you go back and read my post is "homeless".

"The affected residents were moved to state-run residential facilities, provided with food and daily necessities.
 
A total of 121 people were relocated as of Friday morning."

 

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-08-02/business/industry/Mercedes-EV-fire-causes-power-outage-hospitalizations-with-140-cars-damaged/2104634

"In the case of the vehicle involved in the Incheon accident, batteries made by Farasis Energy have experienced recalls in the United States and China in the past due to fire risks.

Lee Ho-geun, an automotive professor at Daeduk University, said, "Given that Farasis batteries have been pointed out for stability issues in the past, I cautiously predict that the cause might be a design or manufacturing defect."

Experts advise that to prevent EV fires during heat waves, it is best to avoid using ground-level chargers and to use slow chargers, ensuring that the battery is not charged beyond 90 percent.

"By charging only up to 85 percent with a slow charger, you can prevent over 95 percent of EV fires caused by thermal runaway," Lee said."

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20240807001100320

"In short, this is a story with legs and has the potential to spark a global discussion around EV battery transparency. The incident highlights the stark contrast in approaches to battery disclosure across different regions. While it's rare for EV makers in the US to disclose a car's battery brand, the European Union has taken a proactive approach. Last year, the EU approved a mandatory "battery passport" for EVs, set to take effect in 2027."

 

https://www.techspot.com/news/104256-mercedes-benz-ev-fire-south-korea-could-lead.html

This is a more informative view of the fire, and before everyone pours scorn on this without watching and paying attention to he says, he is not anti BEV at all, but he is anti rushing through the enforcement before we have learned enough and put mitigating routines in place to enhance safety and learned how to prevent such massive events from happening, He actually does make a lot of sense if only people will give him the chance to explain and not be so quick to rubbish anybody who dares to have a different point of view. 

 

There is still so much to learn about battery cars, I have no doubt that we will resolve many of these issues given time.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Re the nearly fully charged EV,s mentioned in the article @Stonekeeper, WTF.

 

So is it nearly empty, or half charged or 75% charged fine. 90% not.

 

@wyx087

That is probably the 500 households suffering water outages.  So 'homeless' or water and electricity less. 

 

@Graham Butcher  over 34,000 dead in Gaza.

Homes levelled to the ground.   Wars all around the world.     

Wars over land & resources. Oil & Gas and minerals to build vehicles.

 

So we are not stopping those deaths, or climate change,or anything.  Fire kills, bombing people kills.  (Lets celebrate how great War Planes / Bombers were / are.)

What a crap world. 

 

But anyway, have a war on EV,s.   Tell us how many accidents there are with EV,s, or Geoff Buy,s Cars can tell us, and how an industrial accident kills a car worker. 

 

 

 

Gaza death toll over 40k now I gather.

Q park Liverpool not discriminating against EVs. They have actually just installed EV chargers on level 0.

 

Presume fire detection and suppression has been considered at least.