The real p|th take us the Hire Car delivery drivers are tag teaming two of the chargers. They take one car off and wait in it til another of their drivers arrived and put that car in. While their company takes advantage private or business drivers are heading off to BP or now more commonly the Arnold Clark chargers. I did tell one driver about the chargers around the back that I now use.

Edited 17 July, 202517 Jul by Ootohere

On 15/07/2025 at 20:33, wyx087 said:

Can clearly see that this is the result of heavy behind the scenes lobbying that’s been at play by the car manufacturers. Many of whom (European established brands especially) are really struggling.

So all this really is a manufacturer subsidy, dressed up/spun to look like it’s benefiting the consumer.

The Chinese (arch competitors) have been completely cut out of the subsidy, under a tissue paper thin veil of non ‘green manufacturing’.

This is the amount of power legacy car manufacturers have over our politicians.

Autocar

Chinese EVs are set to be excluded from UK's new Electric...

Other EVs manufactured in Asian countries, such as in Korea or Japan, are also expected not to qualify

European manufacturers are scared and in trouble.

They asked for money. Now the UK tax payer are doing handouts.

Does it mean Czech and German cars also wouldn't get the subsidies?

S Korean: 414 gCO2

Czech: 414 gCO2

Germany: 344 gCO2

Our World in Data

Carbon intensity of electricity generation

Carbon intensity is measured in grams of carbon dioxide-equivalents emitted per kilowatt-hour of electricity generated.

I was passed a huge parking area with some very bright coloured cars and then realised it was new BYD,s and not just the small ones. Not able to stop. Looking forward to going back that way and stopping to get a closer look see at them. PS. European and Asian / far eastern car manufacturers have their factories in Europe, some in Hungary which is energy rich became Russia allows them to get the electricity and gas. No sanctions happening over that. Even VW group takes advantage of that special relationship that the EU likes to ignore.

Edited 18 July, 202518 Jul by Ootohere

6 hours ago, Ootohere said:

I was passed a huge parking area with some very bright coloured cars and then realised it was new BYD,s and not just the small ones.

That in itself is welcome change as for years we seem to get bogged down with dull an interesting colours where your car just hides away among other cars of similar dull and bland colour and indeed same looking cars.

Model X build quality and are the seven seats for Snow whites friends?

Those EVs that it is looking like will not get the UK government grant are likely slashing their prices to compete. Leap motors have already done so (this happened in Germany at the start of the year when they withdrew their 7,500 Euro subsidies). Now a super bargain.

Chinese brand’s new LEAP-GRANT scheme undercuts rivals and puts the £14,495 T03 at the top of the UK’s electric car value charts

Leapmotor has fired the starting pistol on a UK electric car price war by launching its own discount scheme. The LEAP-GRANT cuts the price of its entire EV model range by up to £3,750, undercutting both the competition and the Government. Buyers can now order the Leapmotor T03 from £14,495, where it previously cost £15,995. That makes it the cheapest new five-door electric car on sale in the UK right now, undercutting the Dacia Spring by £500. Of course, that could change once the list of government EV grants is confirmed.

What’s new? - Leapmotor has taken the unusual step of introducing a manufacturer-funded electric car grant ahead of the UK Government’s incoming scheme. Called the ‘LEAP-GRANT’, it offers immediate savings of up to £3,750 on its electric vehicle range and is available across all of its UK retailers from launch. The scheme reduces the price of the C10 family SUV by the full £3,750, while the smaller T03 city car gets £1,500 off its list price. On top of that, both cars are also being offered with 0% APR finance, making the monthly payments especially competitive for drivers switching from petrol or diesel.

Parkers

Has Leapmotor just killed the cheap petrol car?

Leapmotor launches its own EV grant, slashing prices across its range. The T03 city car now starts at just £14,495 – the cheapest new five-door electric car on sale in the UK.

Edited 18 July, 202518 Jul by lol-lol

4 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That in itself is welcome change as for years we seem to get bogged down with dull an interesting colours where your car just hides away among other cars of similar dull and bland colour and indeed same looking cars.

Try playing rainbow cars... A bit like car snooker but colours of the rainbow... It's more difficult than you would think and the orange and purple (pseudo indigo and violet) are buggers to find

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

That in itself is welcome change as for years we seem to get bogged down with dull an interesting colours where your car just hides away among other cars of similar dull and bland colour and indeed same looking cars.

Nobody's 'bogged down' with dull colours, customers just can't be arsed to demand something different.

Back in 2011, MIL was after a new Fabia Scout to replace her green MK3 Golf Estate.

Only colour she was interested in was Rally Green. She caused a right stink at the dealership with emails back and forth to Skoda HQ, the dealership and her going back to the dealership saying not good enough.

She got her way and got what I believe is the first non vRS Fabia in a vRS colour.

She was a persistent old lady but she grew up during a very different time in Germany and was 12 in 1945 and always stood her ground even as a child.

That's a whole other story though.

1 hour ago, Lee01 said:

Nobody's 'bogged down' with dull colours, customers just can't be arsed to demand something different.

Case study -

I was looking at a Dacia Logan "MPV" (looked like an estate car to me; there was only one body shape available). This was offered in 6 "colours", to list-

1. White. This was "standard" and not a "premium extra"

2. Three "shades of grey". These were "premium extras" at just over £1000 added to the base price.

3. Black This was also a "premium extra" at just over £1000 added to the base price.

4. Metallic blue. |This was also a "premium extra" at some £1_100 (eleven hundred pounds) added to the base price.

1 hour ago, Paws4Thot said:

Case study -

I was looking at a Dacia Logan "MPV" (looked like an estate car to me; there was only one body shape available). This was offered in 6 "colours", to list-

1. White. This was "standard" and not a "premium extra"

2. Three "shades of grey". These were "premium extras" at just over £1000 added to the base price.

3. Black This was also a "premium extra" at just over £1000 added to the base price.

4. Metallic blue. |This was also a "premium extra" at some £1_100 (eleven hundred pounds) added to the base price.

Had a Dacia Logan, in white.

Not an electric car so not appropriate to this thread but I would say a good car.

It s a Sandero estate version really. Had one about a decade ago, cost about £10K. 3 year PCP deal. Sold back to dealer ad got £1K back as it was worth so much more than the £3k balloon payment. Made stacks of money running and getting 45p a mile and even running it on the lower rate was not losing money ie at 25p per mile Treasury mileage rate

Anyroad up, back to EVs please and such posts about car colours to some other thread to keep this important thread on topic if you would be so kind and disciplined ?.

For making up a Rainbow bingo card game BMWs and Audi have the rare colours out there and many greens purples yellows and bright colours and MG,s and Renault or Audi have the Orange metallic or solid. Also many shades of blue.

Edited 19 July, 202519 Jul by Ootohere

Modern Heros is not having great time of it of late, here is his latest problem, brand new Citroen Ami, broke on day 1 and is now waiting on a fix.

11 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Modern Heros is not having great time of it of late, here is his latest problem, brand new Citroen Ami, broke on day 1 and is now waiting on a fix.

New Ami quadricycle due out soon I gather.

Modern Hero guy, Scottish voice but Gloucester based bought another Ami and got some 40% off RRP I gather and they were 2 or 3 year old models out of long term storage.

Not really a car like the Spring he also had recently and reminds me of the 30 mph limited Mopeds, quite dangerous being limited to 30 mph.

With EVs dropping in price as competition intensifies and the multi thousand pound EV subsidy deal kicks in it must be strange times for EV dealers like MH. I watch his videos and wish him the best but the Ami mk 1 had been a bit of a lemon so hopefully Mk 2 is better. Have colleagues in London without driving licence that it might siut if it is better.

Edited 23 July, 202523 Jul by lol-lol

Is the the myth finally becoming a liability , has the blade battery reached the end and the truth coming out?

What myth? What liability? The video talks about a single failure (the thumbnail story, at 10:22). The video shown at 11:50 is repair work being done, despite the voiceover saying they cannot be repaired.

What model of car has never had failure cases?

Begins and ends with a lot of wordy bits with no real supporting sources.

32 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

What myth? What liability? The video talks about a single failure (the thumbnail story, at 10:22). The video shown at 11:50 is repair work being done, despite the voiceover saying they cannot be repaired.

What model of car has never had failure cases?

Begins and ends with a lot of wordy bits with no real supporting sources.

It's about the dumbest video i have seen.

Blade Its a form factor not a chemistry.

Blade means the battery pack can be shaped in to shaped which allow more flexible positioning off the battery pack.

BYD have been using LFP and even going down the road LFP very early as well as lead private battery company in the world as CATL I believe is part or wholly Chinese government owed.

Still not aware of anything other than EVs being about a tenth as likely to go up in flames than ICE cars and with the above moves away from NMC to LMP and other safer battery chemistry the gap is only going to get wider.

22 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

It's about the dumbest video i have seen.

Blade Its a form factor not a chemistry.

Blade means the battery pack can be shaped in to shaped which allow more flexible positioning off the battery pack.

BYD have been using LFP and even going down the road LFP very early as well as lead private battery company in the world as CATL I believe is part or wholly Chinese government owed.

Still not aware of anything other than EVs being about a tenth as likely to go up in flames than ICE cars and with the above moves away from NMC to LMP and other safer battery chemistry the gap is only going to get wider.

Indeed, and that is exactly what that video is saying, it states that the battery has been redesigned and indeed it shows it is a blade, it is no longer a collection of cylindrical sealed together in a large metal can.

Are you sure that as EV user yourself that you are not reacting to the video in a negative fashion and just automatically rubbishing it out of principle?

I have said countless times, I'm not anti EV, I'm just concerned about the way that some countries have chucked all their weight behind the technology which is still in its infancy and there is still much to learn about it and we can effectively negate some of the batteries bad parts.

Like I have said, diesel, CFL lights etc, we have as humans trod this path many times before and then discover that the once acclaimed magic bullet is like a scorpion with a really nasty and vicious sting in its tail.

I have heard the argument so many times that an electric car is far more reliable than an ICE car, it has less to go wrong etc., really???

There are thousands of battery cells to make up a battery, to say nothing about the cooling and heating system for the battery, the numerous BMS systems required for each bank and the load/charge balancing systems for the cells for their own protection, the invertors and all the required control systems.

In reality, the EV is far far more complicated than the ICE version, where an EV is less complicated than an ICE is is in the actual moving parts, but they are way more complicated overall.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Indeed, and that is exactly what that video is saying, it states that the battery has been redesigned and indeed it shows it is a blade, it is no longer a collection of cylindrical sealed together in a large metal can.

Are you sure that as EV user yourself that you are not reacting to the video in a negative fashion and just automatically rubbishing it out of principle?

I have said countless times, I'm not anti EV, I'm just concerned about the way that some countries have chucked all their weight behind the technology which is still in its infancy and there is still much to learn about it and we can effectively negate some of the batteries bad parts.

Like I have said, diesel, CFL lights etc, we have as humans trod this path many times before and then discover that the once acclaimed magic bullet is like a scorpion with a really nasty and vicious sting in its tail.

I have heard the argument so many times that an electric car is far more reliable than an ICE car, it has less to go wrong etc., really???

There are thousands of battery cells to make up a battery, to say nothing about the cooling and heating system for the battery, the numerous BMS systems required for each bank and the load/charge balancing systems for the cells for their own protection, the invertors and all the required control systems.

In reality, the EV is far far more complicated than the ICE version, where an EV is less complicated than an ICE is is in the actual moving parts, but they are way more complicated overall.

Vast majority of EV components are inert.

Don't reciprocate, don't require their lubrication pressurised, warm up to work best changed on a regular basis along with the oil filter. No air filter changes either.

ICE reciorocating engines are a 19th century idea that hung about way too longer.

Would have liked to see the vvankel engine take over about 50 years ago. Worked with Norton a bit when I worked for Piper. Would still love and RX7 or RX8 and I think there was an Audi, well it wa NSU that Audi integrated into itself.

ICE is stagnating, only existing in the near future with EV ech providing a crutch for its existence in production over the next few months and then oblivion.

Maybe a sliver of hope with hydrogen power in cerrtain specialist applications, trains, truck to remote areas etc.

Edited 27 July, 202527 Jul by lol-lol

Hyundai follow Leap Motors and other Far East EV makers slash prices.....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/367436/hyundai-slashes-prices-across-its-entire-ev-range&ved=2ahUKEwisyv6R_tyOAxUuYEEAHV7RAvoQFnoECDMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3j4R0fgAsTg4XhNBVW9RE3

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Are you sure that as EV user yourself that you are not reacting to the video in a negative fashion and just automatically rubbishing it out of principle?

Are you sure that as EV denier (even though you say otherwise, what you say is contradictory to everything you post) yourself that you are not lured to these videos by algorithms and just surviving in your own echo chamber?

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

CFL lights

These were a great invention at the time. It is brighter than traditional bulbs but also uses less electricity. White LED had not been invented back them.

Unlike like diesel, just because a technology had been surpassed does not make it invalid for its time period. Diesel was the wrong choice when hybrid were available.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

the numerous BMS systems required for each bank

One BMS for the whole pack. Not each bank.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Fast majority of EV components are inert.

Don't reciprocate, don't require their lubrication pressurised, warm up to work best changed on a regular basis along with the oil filter. No air filter changes either.

ICE reciorocating engines are a 19th century idea that hung about way too longer.

Would have liked to see the vvankel engine take over about 50 years ago. Worked with Norton a bit when I worked for Piper. Would still love and RX7 or RX8 and I think there was an Audi, well it wa NSU that Audi integrated into itself.

ICE is stagnating, only existing in the near future with EV ech providing a crutch for its existence in production over the next few months and then oblivion.

Maybe a sliver of hope with hydrogen power in cerrtain specialist applications, trains, truck to remote areas etc.

Just couldn't help yourself then, I had already agreed about the mechanical components, but it is all the really complex control, electronics and software that makes EVs overall way more complicated then an ICE. That is one reason why there is a shortage of skilled people to work on them beyond doing the simple things like normal servicing.

Most normal people can actually see a problem with something mechanical, and with the right tools could more than likely also fix it, can you see faults with electronics, software, etc? Yes there is a certain amount of those elements in modern ICE vehicles, but go back a few years there was none of those things was there? Look at the classic vehicles at rallies etc that are still to this day usable and could be everyday drivers and are are the most part, cared for by their owners. The same thing will not be happening with EVs in the future and if you want a even more clear illustration, take a mechanical calculator and an modern day electronic one.

@Graham Butcher @lol-lol Short of dropping it far enough to break one of the 3 moving parts, what even can go wrong with this ?

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Vast majority of EV components are inert.

Electronics might not have macro moving components but to describe them as inert is a total misunderstanding - they generate heat, require mechanical mountings (solder, circuit boards, etc.), need connectors subject to heat and corrosion, etc.

Most people cannot repair, or even diagnose, faulty electronics and that will be the cause of most EVs being scrapped even when their mechanical components and bodywork are still in good working order.

39 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

Electronics might not have macro moving components but to describe them as inert is a total misunderstanding - they generate heat, require mechanical mountings (solder, circuit boards, etc.), need connectors subject to heat and corrosion, etc.

Most people cannot repair, or even diagnose, faulty electronics and that will be the cause of most EVs being scrapped even when their mechanical components and bodywork are still in good working order.

Quite right, and to add insult to injury, these parts are also hidden away in sealed cases and also in inaccessible locations and the sealed units are many and nondescript and are not even available to the ordinary person, only authorised dealers, who also do not have the skilled staff to even understand which parts do what and if they will even attempt to repair the car, they go through a trail and error of swapping parts, of which all parts are chargeable. Even if they don't cure the problem which can cost thousands of £ and the upshot of it all is, that the actual failed part, if you could pin point it and replace it, could be a simple SMD resistor or a capacitor costing just pence, and a modern car has thousands of such electronic parts.

^^^ "ordinary people."

We really are talking lots of tripe now to prove some point or another.

Lets talk washing machine and driers, microwaves, computers, mobile / smart phones and 'Jarvis Cocker'.

Common people / Ordinary people.

Somebody must know the scrappage numbers of EV,s from failures other than accidental damage ones.

Drivetrain / component failures, or maybe they are just assuming that there are however many.

Most people if we are talking a majority can not fix an ICE vehicle regardless of the age / generation on them.