10 minutes ago, PetrolDave said:

As I posted, and which you seem to have ignored, for the layman (at least all the ones I've spoken to who do not have an engineering background, including 2 of my brothers-in-law who are retired head teachers) they assume a system with a battery and an inverter will supply their home during a power cut - so they won't even think about asking the question.

You're making the classic mistake of an "expert", failing to understand the thinking of a "Joe/Joanne Public".

For everything and anything I do, I always do my research.

But I understand that's how you feel and I'm afraid I have to agree that a high percentage of people don't do their research.

However, I still think that the fault is with the customer.

One shouldn't be required to always spend extra few hundred pounds for features they don't need or understand. It's always good to have options. It's also good to default to cheapest viable product.

(isn't lack of options the reason many here are opposed to EV's?)

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

However, I still think that the fault is with the customer.

The Salesman of a product should have a duty to establish customer need and sell the appropriate product.

@PetrolDave I take your point entirely. In my experience of getting my system and my soon to be daughter-in-law getting hers, all those who quoted asked the question if we wanted power cut back up. Most of those also asked if we wanted whole house back up or a specific set of sockets. So there is a very good chance IME that the layman will have the opportunity to choose, even if they don't know there is a choice.

Of course there are some less reputable outfits banging in standard systems that won't meet some customer's needs especially those installing under the ECO-4 grant (or whatever its called these days). However , as with any major consumer purchase the buyer needs to be doing some due diligence checks on the suppliers they ask to quote.

.

The video ends but the car still isn't working. The dim screen means it isn't running on HV battery.

Would be interesting to see how much they have to spend to get it back to fully working order. Tesla are notorious for not allowing on their supercharging without an expensive inspection. (can still charge on other public rapid charger)

But very good to see people willing to experiment and learn repairing EV's.

More free lecky tomorrow, 6th Sept, usual slot 2 pm to 3 pm so have to set up the EVs to auto charge themselves.

Is there a way you can do this with diesel or petrol cars ?

Another good step forward with the latest SMTT figures with diesel and petrol cars declining and full electric and hybrid electric both up significantly despite the slow emergence of which EVs are getting which of the two levels of EV grants, or not getting it but the Asian companies are slashing prices to match a similar reduction anyways.

Bang. Bang go the nails in the ICE coffin.

Just worried where UK government are going to plug the cap with the diminishing of the excise duty on fuel ? At least those newly bought hybrids will be paying some excise duty for many a year to come. Br interesting to see what happens to the 5p a litre excise reduction that came in with covid and whether fuel duty also goes up in line with inflation.

2 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Just worried where UK government are going to plug the cap with the diminishing of the excise duty on fuel

32 million cars averaging 7,000 miles a year charged 5p+ vat a mile to use the roads would raise a fair amount?

28 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

32 million cars averaging 7,000 miles a year charged 5p+ vat a mile to use the roads would raise a fair amount?

Problem with that is masses would start taking the journey short cuts.

When I go to London sometimes instead of going M5, M42 and M40 I cut thru the Cotswolds, saves many miles.

Now those folks of the Cotswold would not be so happy with lots of people not using the motorways but cutting through their green and pleasant areas.

There are a whole load of cut through one can use ie Aylesbury and A41 rather than M40 and M25.

Use A49 going from South Wales to North Wales rather than M4, M5, M6,M54 etc.

Some unscrupulous people even claim for the longer route but do the shorter route, tut tut.

That's why I think pay per mile is doomed, doomed

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

More free lecky tomorrow, 6th Sept, usual slot 2 pm to 3 pm so have to set up the EVs to auto charge themselves.

Is there a way you can do this with diesel or petrol cars ?

Another good step forward with the latest SMTT figures with diesel and petrol cars declining and full electric and hybrid electric both up significantly despite the slow emergence of which EVs are getting which of the two levels of EV grants, or not getting it but the Asian companies are slashing prices to match a similar reduction anyways.

Bang. Bang go the nails in the ICE coffin.

Just worried where UK government are going to plug the cap with the diminishing of the excise duty on fuel ? At least those newly bought hybrids will be paying some excise duty for many a year to come. Br interesting to see what happens to the 5p a litre excise reduction that came in with covid and whether fuel duty also goes up in line with inflation.

Short answer is yes, there is a way to that for diesel and petrol cars. Lets look at it this way, you have home charger of 7KW and assuming 100% efficiency and get around 4miles per Kw, that 4 x 7 = 28 miles, so that about half a gallon of free fuel for the average car, so that works out at approx £3.20 discount of however much fuel you fill you car with between 2 pm and 3 pm, simples. So you shove £20 worth of fuel in, so you actually pay during those times, £16.80 for your fuel instead of the full price of £20, so yes, the same opportunity does actually exist.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Problem with that is masses would start taking the journey short cuts.

When I go to London sometimes instead of going M5, M42 and M40 I cut thru the Cotswolds, saves many miles.

Now those folks of the Cotswold would not be so happy with lots of people not using the motorways but cutting through their green and pleasant areas.

There are a whole load of cut through one can use ie Aylesbury and A41 rather than M40 and M25.

Use A49 going from South Wales to North Wales rather than M4, M5, M6,M54 etc.

Some unscrupulous people even claim for the longer route but do the shorter route, tut tut.

That's why I think pay per mile is doomed, doomed

You might think that pay per mile is doomed, but I don't. I know for a fact that TFL and Mr Sadiq Khan has been recruiting people for working on PPM systems for a while now in such places as Coventry for example and have personally seen job adverts to that effect, so there are indeed already well established plans to introduce the scheme as soon as possible. Like it or not but electric cars are just ripe for such schemes as every time your car is plugged in, it has the capability of providing the authorities with your details of how far you have driven since the last charge and also a hell a lot more info can also be given up even without your knowledge such your precise location at anytime, the exact route taken (that could zap your theory about short cuts as they could actually price them out to prevent villages etc being overrun).

Don't forget, there is already in place some bans on some electric cars actually being within a fixed distance from certain sensitive locations such as military airfields for example.

Hence why the report states that the PPM will only be applicable in the first instance to electric vehicles because the technology already exists and is preinstalled within the vehicles software and with more and more over the air updates, you are slowly giving over complete remote control to your electric cars thus enabling any hacker or authoritative body the ability to know your cars location etc and it could also be killed at anytime with out the need to even be plugged in.

Still feel the same about the future being electric and that you are being told the real truth about the emissions?

Edited 5 September, 20255 Sep by Graham Butcher

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Short answer is yes, there is a way to that for diesel and petrol cars. Lets look at it this way, you have home charger of 7KW and assuming 100% efficiency and get around 4miles per Kw, that 4 x 7 = 28 miles, so that about half a gallon of free fuel for the average car, so that works out at approx £3.20 discount of however much fuel you fill you car with between 2 pm and 3 pm, simples. So you shove £20 worth of fuel in, so you actually pay during those times, £16.80 for your fuel instead of the full price of £20, so yes, the same opportunity does actually exist.

I use both my EV chargers during free electricity times ie the Indra one which came free with the Scenic and a Pod Point that was subsidized when the subsidized Zoe arrived nearly 4 years ago. I have had £16 of credit added to my account this summer. Don't understand how you say you get free with diesel or petrol.

Use to get Tesco points, even when using Company fuel card, and would get my 1% kick back on the bit of private fuel I put in to certain cars on my Am EX card and I use to spend as much as £5K a year on fuel, doubt I spend £1k a year on electricity for the 3 EVs and that includes the occasional public charge of 10 kwhs or so. Vast difference and saving.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

You might think that pay per mile is doomed, but I don't. I know for a fact that TFL and Mr Sadiq Khan has been recruiting people for working on PPM systems for a while now in such places as Coventry for example and have personally seen job adverts to that effect, so there are indeed already well established plans to introduce the scheme as soon as possible. Like it or not but electric cars are just ripe for such schemes as every time your car is plugged in, it has the capability of providing the authorities with your details of how far you have driven since the last charge and also a hell a lot more info can also be given up even without your knowledge such your precise location at anytime, the exact route taken (that could zap your theory about short cuts as they could actually price them out to prevent villages etc being overrun).

Don't forget, there is already in place some bans on some electric cars actually being within a fixed distance from certain sensitive locations such as military airfields for example.

Hence why the report states that the PPM will only be applicable in the first instance to electric vehicles because the technology already exists and is preinstalled within the vehicles software and with more and more over the air updates, you are slowly giving over complete remote control to your electric cars thus enabling any hacker or authoritative body the ability to know your cars location etc and it could also be killed at anytime with out the need to even be plugged in.

Still feel the same about the future being electric and that you are being told the real truth about the emissions?

I heard VW Group software was holding information on car location but not Renault. Of course EVs, even my 4 year old Zoe, have their own phone contract, usually with EE from what I have seen, and that is possible to trace of course if gathering it was deemed required by UK government. I thought all new cars of all types have to have SOS phone set up just in case you roll it down a bank and cannot get out. They do go wrong and then a fault code comes up to fix but I know people who don't have it fixed, quite expensive I gather, so people just leave it off line. Expect there will be a way to take the SOS system off line if one does not want to be traced at all times.

Emissions during the running part of the EVs life time is zero, a few tonnes when being made, very low for French cars as the production plant in France run mainly on French nuclear base load power. Some CO2 to scrap the car in two or three decades time I suppose bit that will reduce as by then even cutting them up should be zero carbon methods.

17 hours ago, lol-lol said:

More free lecky tomorrow, 6th Sept, usual slot 2 pm to 3 pm so have to set up the EVs to auto charge themselves.

Is there a way you can do this with diesel or petrol cars ?

Another good step forward with the latest SMTT figures with diesel and petrol cars declining and full electric and hybrid electric both up significantly despite the slow emergence of which EVs are getting which of the two levels of EV grants, or not getting it but the Asian companies are slashing prices to match a similar reduction anyways.

Bang. Bang go the nails in the ICE coffin.

Just worried where UK government are going to plug the cap with the diminishing of the excise duty on fuel ? At least those newly bought hybrids will be paying some excise duty for many a year to come. Br interesting to see what happens to the 5p a litre excise reduction that came in with covid and whether fuel duty also goes up in line with inflation.

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

I use both my EV chargers during free electricity times ie the Indra one which came free with the Scenic and a Pod Point that was subsidized when the subsidized Zoe arrived nearly 4 years ago. I have had £16 of credit added to my account this summer. Don't understand how you say you get free with diesel or petrol.

Oh dear, misunderstood what I said again, you smugly asked the question if there was a way that you could free fuel with diesel or petrol cars?

My reply to that question showed that there was indeed a way of not only doing it, but how they ensure parity for the average user, it just needs the will to do it.

At no point did I actually suggest that I was getting any free fuel.☹️

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

I heard VW Group software was holding information on car location but not Renault. Of course EVs, even my 4 year old Zoe, have their own phone contract, usually with EE from what I have seen, and that is possible to trace of course if gathering it was deemed required by UK government. I thought all new cars of all types have to have SOS phone set up just in case you roll it down a bank and cannot get out. They do go wrong and then a fault code comes up to fix but I know people who don't have it fixed, quite expensive I gather, so people just leave it off line. Expect there will be a way to take the SOS system off line if one does not want to be traced at all times.

Emissions during the running part of the EVs life time is zero, a few tonnes when being made, very low for French cars as the production plant in France run mainly on French nuclear base load power. Some CO2 to scrap the car in two or three decades time I suppose bit that will reduce as by then even cutting them up should be zero carbon methods.

Why is it that many of you EV'ers just cannot see anything outside of the EV domain? Again my reply to your post was about your statement where you said "That's why I think pay per mile is doomed, doomed", so you sort of conveniently ignored the fact EV cars are being used as mobile spies that could be used to impart all kinds of information to to both hackers and government bodies about where your car has been and even down to what time and date, as well as your speed etc at any given point along your journey. This has tremendous implications for the driver as they can see if you were speeding, or in a certain location where you should not have been etc.

There are so many reasons why they would like to have access to that data, i.e. Police would be able to see if you actually were in the vicinity of a crime or not, especially useful to them if you are suspect number 1. Also extremely useful in the event of a major RTA as they would be able to collate all the data about your driving prior to the accident and what you were doing speed wise etc at the point of the accident and could thus pinpoint the real cause of the accident.

George Orwell's dystopian masterpiece, Nineteen Eighty-Four where big brother was watching everyone and thought police would crack down on anyone not complying with the rules, well this could be about to become reality. What a better way of doing so then to create the scenario where in order to get about we all have to plug into a digital world and an electric car that has to be plugged in is a great place to start. Smart speakers already have the ability to eves-drip our conversations at home all of which are stored in huge databanks, our mobile phones track us everywhere we take our phones. The slow fading out of cash for digital transactions, Digital ID cards etc, all of which are being sold to us as a modern convenience factor, enriching our life style in order to encourage us to sort of sleep walk into the position where we give away so much personal information and control of us to others.

Best not carry a Smart phone about then.

On 04/09/2025 at 07:56, Ootohere said:

.

This is a channel that I follow and already watched this video, it will be good to see the final conclusion of this repair and just how Tesla play along with this as they will still have the final word in as much as they have the ability to allow this to proceed or shut it down with their remote access to the car, they may even be able to prevent the car from using their chargers at the very least.

Great channel though, hence it is a must view one for me.

Can the American Corporation actually get away with restrictive practices in the UK with others property even though the UK is no longer in the EU.

TESLA does not own the car.

What can they legally do in the UK and why to stop a vehicle being repaired, or refuse the use of Superchargers.

Any vehicle with faults might well not be able to do a hand shake at chargers.

Well we do hear of similar alleged things happening, but not proven either way, perhaps the Salvage Rebuilds videos might answer that one for us?

It will probably need the airbag modules and sensors repaired before it will start again. Possibly Tesla will need to reset something after verifying that the battery was not compromised in the crash.

Possibly TESLA would like that they could make it that only they can do that.

Fortunately there are smart people that will be trained and experienced and can offer that service.

After all the Insurers allowed the sale of the vehicle and the repair of it is allowed in the UK.

No restrictions that it must be parted out.

If TESLA want control of products / vehicles they sell then they should be buying them back.

Party out it would be worth more than it was purchased for.

The vehicle appears to be receiving anything special in the way of storage unless that open air parking space and distance from buildings is it & no idea about the transportation of it.

Edited 6 September, 20256 Sep by Ootohere

21 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Possibly TESLA would like that they could make it that only they can do that.

Fortunately there are smart people that will be trained and experienced and can offer that service.

After all the Insurers allowed the sale of the vehicle and the repair of it is allowed in the UK.

No restrictions that it must be parted out.

If TESLA want control of products / vehicles they sell then they should be buying them back.

Party out it would be worth more than it was purchased for.

The vehicle appears to be receiving anything special in the way of storage unless that open air parking space and distance from buildings is it & no idea about the transportation of it.

Seem to remember matt Armstrong repairing a Lambo that was that new that even Lambo did not have the ability to reset a module and he had to buy a new module

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

The vehicle appears to be receiving anything special in the way of storage unless that open air parking space and distance from buildings is it & no idea about the transportation of it.

I think that is more a fact of that it will not move until the crash data is reset etc.

3

5 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Best not carry a Smart phone about then.

Best not have a VW Group car.

The SOS system has been around 6 or 7 years and VAG are the ones who have been proven to hold this data rather than discharge it under privacy laws.

Don't matter if BEv, Hybrid or Wiesel or other Dino juices all all cars with SOS xan be tracked but VAG, not governments are ones using the data.

Going to be two hours of free lecky tomorrow, Sunday, might be just for those on Octopus who have been partaking in the Free Sessions.

Think Octopus think that if they get users to use in early afternoon when lecky virtual free to them, less than a penny per kwh, we will use less day time, 27p per kwh, or even Night time, 8p per kwh and save them money too.

My average for last month was 12p per kwh for that which I did use from the Grid. For the solar I generated myself just the capital cost of panels etc.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

3

Best not have a VW Group car.

The SOS system has been around 6 or 7 years and VAG are the ones who have been proven to hold this data rather than discharge it under privacy laws.

Don't matter if BEv, Hybrid or Wiesel or other Dino juices all all cars with SOS xan be tracked but VAG, not governments are ones using the data.

With cars that have the SOS system currently that may true, but we all know that if asked or mandated to hand over the data, they will all have no option but to comply is that not correct?

Currently all VW cars the SOS system is only active as far as the owner/driver is concerned for the first year of its life, after that if you wish to make use of the feature, it is like so many other things today, subscription based.

Edited 6 September, 20256 Sep by Graham Butcher