1 minute ago, Stonekeeper said:

Naughty people. Quoting a "discount" when it is what the government is giving.

Also I gather some of the deals are not honest ones, advertised, draw you in and they try and fit you up with a different more expensive deal. I got £1k off my already cheap 40 kwh R5 plus the £1500 government grant but had to pay for yellow though had ordered green but it was found damaged at the import centre. I could have several thousands of a Megane Etech with Blue Light discount but i felt its is too similar to my Scenic so stuck with Evolution R5.

Edited 12 February12 Feb by lol-lol

3 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

I have seen more Alpine A290 EV,s on the road than Renualt 5 ev,s. I see plenty at dealerships. Just not on the road moving or parked up.

I was just not convinced by the Alpine 290, not that hot and gimmick overtake etc. Wish R5 had the regen paddles like my Scenic and the Micra has.

Our Mini Cooper E, level One which has the Headup Display, has over 180 hp, 0 to 60 in 7 seconds I think is a better choice than the Alpine 290 but both cars are very limited in the rear seats hence the Scenic for carrying 5 plus luggage.

Edited 12 February12 Feb by lol-lol

14 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Naughty people. Quoting a "discount" when it is what the government is giving.

Also I gather some of the deals are not honest ones, advertised, draw you in and they try and fit you up with a different more expensive deal. I got £1k off my already cheap 40 kwh R5 plus the £1500 government grant but had to pay for yellow though had ordered green but it was found damaged at the import centre. I could have several thousands of a Megane Etech with Blue Light discount but i felt its is too similar to my Scenic so stuck with Evolution R5.

When I bought "New" cars I had to wait for them to be built. I never bought one from a storage yard.

All those "In Stock" should have a discount.

@lol-lol You are not buying them to be the owner are you? Just paying rent on them!. Handing back. As so many are.

3 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol You are not buying them to be the owner are you? Just paying rent on them!. Handing back. As so many are.

When you rent them you have to pay extra for the colour you want to drive? 🤣

15 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol You are not buying them to be the owner are you? Just paying rent on them!. Handing back. As so many are.

Not sure whether i will keep one or both of the Renaults.

Was thinking of blowing some of retirement Tax Free Lump Sum after the low or 0% they are on.

Car ownership is a dying thing and I can see that from 2030 onwards cars will be called up from an App, appear as a driverless vehicle abd take you where you want to go and then go to a local pool to be called up again when needed. So probably have one car but which one to be decided.

Not everyone lives in Cities, and not everyone pays for Taxis, Private hire cars or UBER, and there is no guarantee that a TAXI without a driver will be any cheaper to use than one with a driver. Those investing in the vehicles are not going to hire them out without them being profitable.

33 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

When you rent them you have to pay extra for the colour you want to drive? 🤣

Green was the free colour and yellow added £800 which add to the monthly amount. The deposit was bigger, I was expecting about 8k but it added up to 8.5k with the yellow but the yellow is iconic and the colour Renaults should be like Skodas should be green 💚.

If I did not take the yellow it was going to be many weeks for a green and by lovely Riviera blue Zoe was going back in just a few days.

Just watching Rally Sweden and the Fabias are black and the Fords are a bit green, most confusing.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Looking at all of 2024 and all of 2025, which of course includes Dec 2024 and 2025, shows the fuller picture.... (24% increase) and one in three cars for a December ae both pretty awesome IMO.

Yes short of the 28% target but lots of reasons for that such as the higher Government grant applying to EV versions that have to be ordered as is the case for the 2025 European CoTY Renault 5, the 4, the Minis built in Leipzig and the Nissan EV from NE England. These cars will be delivered in Q2 2026 ie few weeks away with nice "26" registrations and the stonking £3750 grant. If you were to accept a non + PLUS version I expect you would want more discount though Renault have not been giving much discount as they can sell every Renault 5 they can make such is the popularity. Hope the Merc CLA electric getting CoTY this year will boost its sales, spec is just fantastic but UK will not like mainland Europe which gets it sooner of course so affect on SMMT EV sales data will not be as good if we drove on the same road size as most of Europe !

---

UK new electric car (BEV) registrations grew significantly from 2024 to 2025, with 2025 seeing 473,348 registrations, an increase of over 91,000 units compared to 381,970 in 2024. BEV market share rose from 19.6% in 2024 to 23.4% in 2025.

SMMT EV Sales Comparison: 2024 vs. 2025

• Total BEV Registrations: 381,970 (2024) to 473,348 (2025).

• Market Share: 19.6% (2024) to 23.4% (2025).

Autocar

The new Mercedes CLA comes with a 484-mile EV option for...

Hyper-efficient saloon becomes UK's longest-range electric car, while hybrid promises diesel-style MPG

Yes, but once again registrations are not sales in the true meaning of the word, they are being used as a way of massaging the figures in a dual blade operation, A/ it helps the reduce the amount of fines that need to be paid and B/ it also helps the government get closer to their forced targets.

That Mercedes CLA might well boast a high claimed range, but I doubt that if driven in the same fashion as ICE version it would get anywhere near its claimed range, and I seriously doubt that would get within about 100 miles of it if driven at a max of 55mph. It also costs around the £50K bracket so its OTR price price will take it into the luxury tax bracket so its not a car that will be widely adopted by many private buyers is it?

A trip in a Waymo robotaxi still costs more, on average, than a comparable ride in a human-driven Uber or a Lyft.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/price-gap-between-waymo-uber-174319806.html#:~:text=The%20company%20found%20that%20Waymo,robotaxi%20versus%20ride%2Dhailing%20data.

1 minute ago, Stonekeeper said:

A trip in a Waymo robotaxi still costs more, on average, than a comparable ride in a human-driven Uber or a Lyft.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/price-gap-between-waymo-uber-174319806.html#:~:text=The%20company%20found%20that%20Waymo,robotaxi%20versus%20ride%2Dhailing%20data.

Yes, I would have thought that would be a given anyway as they are going to be so much more expensive to buy in the first instance and I'd expect the insurance costs are going to be sky high until the system has demonstrated that it is going to be more reliable and far safer than a human driver.

Just now, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, but once again registrations are not sales in the true meaning of the word, they are being used as a way of massaging the figures in a dual blade operation, A/ it helps the reduce the amount of fines that need to be paid and B/ it also helps the government get closer to their forced targets.

That Mercedes CLA might well boast a high claimed range, but I doubt that if driven in the same fashion as ICE version it would get anywhere near its claimed range, and I seriously doubt that would get within about 100 miles of it if driven at a max of 55mph. It also costs around the £50K bracket so its OTR price price will take it into the luxury tax bracket so its not a car that will be widely adopted by many private buyers is it?

Think it starts at well under £50k.

Like any car, ICE or EV, don't get there advertised ad can be see on such sites as Real MPG by Honest John which report MPG is only 80% of manufacturer's figures.

With my EVs i find there is loads of miles past 0% shown ie Renault 5, 52 kwh, did 45 kms past 0% state of charge shown so round about its 400 km advertised if you don't mind pushing on a bit. Done ir several times in the Scenic. Certainly Renault are conservative with a small "c" on their display and amount of charge buffers. I will see what Bjorn Nyland tests it as reports.

34 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Car ownership is a dying thing

New car purchase maybe but 80% of car sales are for used

and

Private consumers in the UK are nearly five times more likely to buy a used car than a new one when pure leases (PCH) and fleet cars are removed from the data.

Just now, lol-lol said:

Think it starts at well under £50k.

Like any car, ICE or EV, don't get there advertised ad can be see on such sites as Real MPG by Honest John which report MPG is only 80% of manufacturer's figures.

With my EVs i find there is loads of miles past 0% shown ie Renault 5, 52 kwh, did 45 kms past 0% state of charge shown so round about its 400 km advertised if you don't mind pushing on a bit. Done ir several times in the Scenic. Certainly Renault are conservative with a small "c" on their display and amount of charge buffers. I will see what Bjorn Nyland tests it as reports.

Not according to the searches I did just a few minutes ago, £49k to £52k seems to be the starting price, and don't forget, it does not make one jot of difference how much discount you get off it, it all depends on makers published list price that will decide if it attracts luxury status or not.

Also it is neither clever nor advisable to allow your battery to ever go below 20% anyway. Most seem to suggest keeping the battery always between 20% and 80% and only ever going upto 100% if you know that you are going on a long run the follwing day.

Besides that it is highly likely to cost twice what you're looking at for your Renault, so why didn't you go for one of those?

Edited 12 February12 Feb by Graham Butcher

15 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

I will see what Bjorn Nyland tests it as reports.

46km below 0% He did it 7 months ago

13 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

46km below 0% He did it 7 months ago

He was getting over 10 km per kwh so well over 6 miles per kwh and the power slowly dropped off but he was still seeing over 50 hp available quite close to the running out point. I think the power warning is the real 0% and that occurs many many miles, 11 miles in my 60 kwh Scenic past 0%.

The car charge indicator, on a nominal 52 kwh R5, actual 55 kwh battery, is actually only looks at about 48 or 49 kwh and there is a buffer of 4 kwh below 0% and maybe 1 or 2 above 100% when if faffs about doing the cell balancing.

28 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Not according to the searches I did just a few minutes ago, £49k to £52k seems to be the starting price, and don't forget, it does not make one jot of difference how much discount you get off it, it all depends on makers published list price that will decide if it attracts luxury status or not.
Also it is neither clever nor advisable to allow your battery to ever go below 20% anyway. Most seem to suggest keeping the battery always between 20% and 80% and only ever going upto 100% if you know that you are going on a long run the follwing day. Besides that it is highly likely to cost twice what you're looking at for your Renault, so why didn't you go for one of those?

£46.5K (Merc CLA 250) from what I could see for the base model so well under the new £50k Expensive car supplement, could even add a few extras and still be below. I would rather have two EVs, £30k and 20k, rather than a single £50k-ish EV. 266 nominal range of my Scenic has been OK for visits to Liverpool or Heathrow ie 246 miles or so, with only the very occasional top up charge of 15 kwh or so when everything against me.

It is not a problem if one occasional goes down to, and below, 0%, or over 80% and all the way to 100% occasionally, as long one does not leave it standing for any length of time below 20%, real value not displayed SoC. If I run it below 0% I plug it in and bring it up to 10% on the more expensive day time and then go 10% to 80% on the cheap electricity. No ill effects seen or reported back to me after being serviced and post service report to me.

CLA EV has been extensively tested in the 250 and 350 All wheel drive format and even without trying it has done well over 400 miles and that is without testing the past 0% as far as I can see at first glance. MCA 250e broke the 24 hour record doing over 2,300 miles in that period and it quick recharging help better the Taycan. https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/upcoming-mercedes-cla-has-smashed-24-hour-ev-distance-record-a-2309-mile-run

Edited 12 February12 Feb by lol-lol

33 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

46km below 0% He did it 7 months ago

I was thinking about this year's European Car of the Year ie 2026 and the Merc CLA, 250 or 350 e.

I attached what I found above, he seems to agree that the CLA is an exception car though he did only get slightly less than 300 kms before first charge but he does drive well above the UK speed limits on the Norwegian road but they have have much more charges per mile/km than the UK it seems, and cheaper.

I think I'll just leave this here and see what you all think about it.....

Sanity check warns EVs and heat pumps deliver “no proven carbon savings” ahead of 2030 clean power target  - Queen Mary University of London

Electric cars deliver 'no proven carbon savings' in the UK, scientists warn in 'sanity check' study | Daily Mail Online

Edited 12 February12 Feb by Graham Butcher

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, but once again registrations are not sales in the true meaning of the word, they are being used as a way of massaging the figures in a dual blade operation, A/ it helps the reduce the amount of fines that need to be paid and B/ it also helps the government get closer to their forced targets.

That Mercedes CLA might well boast a high claimed range, but I doubt that if driven in the same fashion as ICE version it would get anywhere near its claimed range, and I seriously doubt that would get within about 100 miles of it if driven at a max of 55mph. It also costs around the £50K bracket so its OTR price price will take it into the luxury tax bracket so its not a car that will be widely adopted by many private buyers is it?

I had one for about an hour, drove it around at motorway speeds and with spirited acceleration and I’d be very comfortable it would get 300-350miles without trying to be economical. I think 425 is achievable with a little awareness and possibly more.

£6 for 300 to 425 miles seems ok to me.

6 minutes ago, Monkhai said:

I had one for about an hour, drove it around at motorway speeds and with spirited acceleration and I’d be very comfortable it would get 300-350miles without trying to be economical. I think 425 is achievable with a little awareness and possibly more.

£6 for 300 to 425 miles seems ok to me.

True, excellent at that kind of running cost, but that bubble will be burst soon with rising energy costs in the not too distant future.

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

True, excellent at that kind of running cost, but that bubble will be burst soon with rising energy costs in the not too distant future.

That’s at 7p, but even at 21p it would be under £18 for 300-425 miles.

That’s a lot cheaper than petrol at 45mpg (10m/L) 30-42L of petrol is currently £40-£55. Even a diesel at 54mpg (12m/L) would be £33-£46. Both also have emissions taxes and higher parking charges in some areas.

Swings and roundabouts I’d suggest at best.

8 minutes ago, Monkhai said:

That’s at 7p, but even at 21p it would be under £18 for 300-425 miles.

That’s a lot cheaper than petrol at 45mpg (10m/L) 30-42L of petrol is currently £40-£55. Even a diesel at 54mpg (12m/L) would be £33-£46. Both also have emissions taxes and higher parking charges in some areas.

Swings and roundabouts I’d suggest at best.

All of this is true, but only if you ignore the massive depreciation if you were buying the car; plus, of course, you are working on the basis that you have the means to home charge. Try the sums at public charging prices, and that margin comes tumbling down, does it not?

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

All of this is true, but only if you ignore the massive depreciation if you were buying the car; plus, of course, you are working on the basis that you have the means to home charge. Try the sums at public charging prices, and that margin comes tumbling down, does it not?

If you can’t hone charge that’s a problem yes. Even at 50p/kWh (Tesla, subscription DC or 22kW AC rates) it’s about the same as petrol/diesel.

(40p ionity subscription rates would be £34)

Depreciation, 50% after 3 years is about standard, so I don’t think it’s that bad as ICE cars are there or there about too (typically a little better I admit).

I think people need to get over it and just accept people will make their choices.

I would never buy an automatic ICE car after driving an EV.

I would however buy a manual, fun car not because it’s fast, but as one where you’re more engaged with the drive. It wouldn’t be a daily driver though.

I have far bigger issues with the 2L or 3L SUV and trucks that weight 2.5-3 tonne and have the bonnet at head/ribs height.

11 minutes ago, Monkhai said:

If you can’t hone charge that’s a problem yes. Even at 50p/kWh (Tesla, subscription DC or 22kW AC rates) it’s about the same as petrol/diesel.

(40p ionity subscription rates would be £34)

Depreciation, 50% after 3 years is about standard, so I don’t think it’s that bad as ICE cars are there or there about too (typically a little better I admit).

I think people need to get over it and just accept people will make their choices.

I would never buy an automatic ICE car after driving an EV.

I would however buy a manual, fun car not because it’s fast, but as one where you’re more engaged with the drive. It wouldn’t be a daily driver though.

I have far bigger issues with the 2L or 3L SUV and trucks that weight 2.5-3 tonne and have the bonnet at head/ribs height.

Correct, people should be free to make their own choice of what type of car suits there own requirements. It really just like BetaMax and VHS, vinyl vs cassette, v CD, laser disc v DVD v Bluray and CFL and LED bulbs, the customer will make their minds up as to which format wins out, without governments mandating everything.