Keir Starmer MP / PM can get some Ex Tory MP / Minister enrolled to look into it.

 

After all no manufacturer / importer for the manufacturers wants to pay a £15,000 penalty on every car sold / First Registered because they never meet the 22% Target with their cars or the partners. 

 

Whatever way they manipulate First Registrations this year they are up sh!t creak next year. 

The link is to "used car sales" would that show pre-registered new sales?

All kidology. 

Just now, Stonekeeper said:

The link is to "used car sales" would that show pre-registered new sales?

You raise a good point.

Delineating between pre-registrations and new car sales is key top proving/disproving Barrie, and I don't think I have done this yet.

However, what I HAVE done is learn that lockdown didn't seem to slow down used car sales as much as I expected it to. Hence the "Incidentally" at the start of my post.

If a clever person/insider has access to data that clearly shows new car SALES as well as new car REGISTRATIONS, I'd be very curious to see it, particularly if it can delineate between EV/ICE & hybrids.

Many are not BEV,s, electrified.  Small battery or PHEV cars.

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

All kidology.

The game is rigged.

The registration and sales difference would be hard to split I think.If they use registration data as the "sales" figure it makes sense because they are only First registered once.

 

If they Used sales data the  same car could appear twice in the data because a car can be sold and registered to a dealer for "Demo" etc and then sold "new" later. They don't always call ex demo "used". Something to do with VAT on "New" cars?

Lock down had the likes of Vauxhall / Peugeot (Stellantis)  and Ford getting cars and BEV,s first registered and out to the NHS and other.

Cheap Lease Schemes etc, for Workers etc.

 

 

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Ice cars do not need to have PPM charge levied against them as it they already are paying per mile in fuel duty at the pump and as you once said, it is the easiest form of tax to collect as the retailer does it all for the government.

 

Excise duty collected at Refinery mostly, a bit at Excise bonded warehouse storage, retailer deals just with the VAT element.

 

VAT is applied to the Excise duty as well.  Tax on tax !!!!!!!

 

3 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

VAT is applied to the Excise duty as well.  Tax on tax !!!!!!!

 

Of course, there is tax on tax, maybe more if we let them get away with it. You pay tax when you earn it, pay tax when you spend it and pay tax again when you save it. 

1 hour ago, Stonekeeper said:

The registration and sales difference would be hard to split I think.If they use registration data as the "sales" figure it makes sense because they are only First registered once.

 

If they Used sales data the  same car could appear twice in the data because a car can be sold and registered to a dealer for "Demo" etc and then sold "new" later. They don't always call ex demo "used". Something to do with VAT on "New" cars?

I think access to the DVLA change of ownership data would probably help. Not sure if that's published.

Independent Filling Stations & others make a Payment to their supplier as the Tanker delivers the fuel to their tanks.

Then they are collecting the Duty & VAT. 

My understanding is like @lol-lol states The duty will be paid when the product first gets sold wholesale, so all those further down the retail chain will just be paying the bill from the one above, similar to tobacco and alcohol duties. Vat would be added and reclaimed as appropriate going down the line to the fuel including duty price..

2 hours ago, EnterName said:

 

If a clever person/insider has access to data that clearly shows new car SALES as well as new car REGISTRATIONS, I'd be very curious to see it, particularly if it can delineate between EV/ICE & hybrids.

Leaving the  latter part aside I get where you're coming from however for new car sales  then you would need to get numbers from each dealer selling  and then build up a larger picture.

Theoretically new car registrations should equal new car sales although in reality this is an abused system.

Maybe it should either be made illegal to pre register or at least for there to be a reportable tick box that indicates the registration is a pre registration?


I mean I guess if you had access to the DVLA  databases in theory you could do something  like

SELECT Count(*) As 'Pre_Registered'
FROM Registration_DB
WHERE New_Owner IN (<List of known car dealers>)
AND Registration_Date >= <Date>

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by Winston_Woof

36 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

Leaving the  latter part aside I get where you're coming from however for new car sales  then you would need to get numbers from each dealer selling  and then build up a larger picture.

Yes. That really seems like the sort of information that the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders should be able to readily provide.

If not SMMT, then some of the market trend organisations and companies ought to have this data, maybe CAP or even HPI, which has access to a lot of vehicle sale related data.

13 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Of course, there is tax on tax, maybe more if we let them get away with it. You pay tax when you earn it, pay tax when you spend it and pay tax again when you save it. 

 

It used to be that countries like the UK had lower taxes, like a third of our salaries but the Scandinavians paid about half but had excellent public services.

 

Now we pay half but have massively overburdened and not coping in many areas public service, something gone wrong me thinks. 

 

Edited 22 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

It used to be that countries like the UK had lower taxes, like a third of our salaries but the Scandinavians paid about half but had excellent public services.

 

Now we pay half but have massively overburdened and not coping in many areas public service, something gone me thinks. 

 

 

Who pays half?

42 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

 

Who pays half?

 

It is total tax so not just income tax and NI but also IPT, VAT, VED and all other taxes.

 

Presumably does not include Employer NI which is a tax on employing a worker and is considered within the cost of hiring and employing month on month.

 

Pinch points are being paid over 50k pa and then over £100k pa when serious consideration given to skimming of that which goes over and using salary sacrifice or maybe drop to 4 days or 3 days not to pay so much tax.  Job that attract thousands or tens of thousands of bonus require altering the standard percentage in to pensions or just putting that bonus straight in to the pension pot. Both an art and a science.

 

EV salary sacrifice another majority used tax avoidance measure, UK government setup. Don't use it myself so get wacked on car allowance and then pay my pcp out of salary. We were suppose to be joining the Octopus salary sacrifice scheme but our buyout put all that on hold boo hoo.

 

 

 

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

Lets forget the car bit, but then this is the EV section, so lets remember that 'Salary Sacrifice'  is one thing predicted to change.

 

So talking Gross Income & NI contribution that was near the 1/3 tax to give the net income.   Take Home pay.

Plenty never smoked, drove, gambled or drank and had not enough to buy insurance for contents etc.

 

These might be the ones that pay for their care in old age because they bought a home,

while those that never saved a penny or bought property get everything paid for by others. 

 

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

not all youtubers push the limit.

This was a charity challenge to drive as far as possible in 24 hours, this team (neither of whom are EV owners I believe) used a BYD Seal.

IMHO their conclusions probably align with those of a lot of new EV owners regarding the experience.
 

 

There are quite a few BYD,s now with people leasing from Motability.

I have helped 2 drivers.  Sadly they were not explained to when getting the cars that they are looking for CCS on the chargers for DC charging.

AC is Slow Charging, often referred to as 'Fast'.

 

They were not explained to that in Scotland that Charge Place Scotland chargers are almost exclusively Rapid chargers, so 50 kW max which is far from Rapid.

I pointed out to them to get 100 or 100 + rapid charging they would be paying likely at BP, MFG, Shell Recharge, Ionity, Osprey or maybe Tesla charging Non Tesla. 

 

Those taking the cars orders and doing hand overs really can be hopeless, and when the customer is getting a car for a disabled driver or passenger it is quite pathetic.

As i have been telling Motability.

I know from Salespeople that are dealing with EV,s that many of them just charge at work or home and have little experience of public chargers other than ones maybe at their Dealerships which really are not for the Public in lots of cases.

 

On 21/10/2024 at 18:49, Stonekeeper said:

 

Who pays half?

That is just the tip of the tax iceberg.

Almost everything you do with your money is taxed.

It's a bit like a mafia boss getting his "tribute" out of his subordinates, but without the token gratitude the mafia boss would show towards a good earner for him.

Income Tax, Capital Gains Tax, National Insurance Contributions, Inheritance Tax, VAT, Insurance Premium Tax, Excise Duties, Stamp Duty & Property/Land Taxes,

Income Tax for Sole Traders, Taxes on Dividends & Savings, Capital Gains Tax on Business Sale, Council Tax, Tax on Vehicles, Alcohol Tax, Sugar Tax.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

There are quite a few BYD,s now with people leasing from Motability.

I have helped 2 drivers.  Sadly they were not explained to when getting the cars that they are looking for CCS on the chargers for DC charging.

AC is Slow Charging, often referred to as 'Fast'.

 

They were not explained to that in Scotland that Charge Place Scotland chargers are almost exclusively Rapid chargers, so 50 kW max which is far from Rapid.

I pointed out to them to get 100 or 100 + rapid charging they would be paying likely at BP, MFG, Shell Recharge, Ionity, Osprey or maybe Tesla charging Non Tesla. 

 

Those taking the cars orders and doing hand overs really can be hopeless, and when the customer is getting a car for a disabled driver or passenger it is quite pathetic.

As i have been telling Motability.

I know from Salespeople that are dealing with EV,s that many of them just charge at work or home and have little experience of public chargers other than ones maybe at their Dealerships which really are not for the Public in lots of cases.

 

So you would say Furious Drivings experience is pretty much a real world experience rather than being played for effect ?

Chargers can be really awkward.  Shell recharge rubbish.  Some chargers plug in tap card push buttons or not and go.   Where many go wrong is as I did.  You need to realise there are slow ones.  You need to let them set.  Communicate. Light up a screen. Lots have buttons with no indication what they are till the screen comes alive.   You are canceling before you even get a start.    I often have to reset a charger.  Press the emergency stop. Follow the instructions and wait.   Sadly some have no instructions so you need to know the procedure.    Help lines can be hopeless if they answer. Often it can be quite a while before you get a reply and then it was a waste of time.    Being familiar with what you use can be the only way.    There are providers that are just dead easy to use.  Sadly unless it is Tesla they are the more expensive.   Shell and BP are just pathetic .   Customer services are just hopeless.    PS. If we are talking Porsche Taycan driver and 20,000 miles a year or so business use with the camera gear and also  private use, then you really should know which work how and prices etc.  After all your putting in tax returns as a business user with your car on the never never until paid off or traded in. 

Edited 24 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere