8 minutes ago, moley said:

How do you 'dereg' a vehicle and shift the renewal date? I was under the impression that the date of first registration in the UK in the V5C was start point for taxation and MOT.

 

The 'luxury tax on vehicles with a list price of over £40k is £410, this is added to the ved for the vehicle. If your vehicle is £190 the luxury tax will make it £600.

EV's are currently exempt.

 

 

 

The exemption for "Luxury car tax" ends for evs registered on or after 1/04/25

 

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by Stonekeeper

All this could change when labour set their first budget.

 

Jeremy Hunt introduced the ved for evs in the autumn statement in 2022 in a desperate attempt to balance his budget.

 

Labour could use an alternate jiggery pokery maths

38 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

All this could change when labour set their first budget.

 

Jeremy Hunt introduced the ved for evs in the autumn statement in 2022 in a desperate attempt to balance his budget.

 

Labour could use an alternate jiggery pokery maths

 

Don't mind paying a fair chunk.

 

EV can be heavy historically and some currently.

 

I remember in my Dept of Transport days a 10% increase in axle weight does nearly 50% more road damage as it is to the power of 4.

 

Maybe a co2 and weight formula might best. I like Paris charging more for 2T plus EVs. Penalises those 2.2T VAG EVs but not smaller or bigger Renault EVs.

 

Would also like those slow down areas due to bad pollution to only effect non EVs so wr can keep running at 70 mph whilst the polluters are restricted to 50 to reduce their pollution. Number plate recognition needed to sort this.

 

Lots of changes needed to spur on decarbonisation.

 

 

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

I'm glad that others have put some meat on the bones, I heard it on the radio but there was no depth to it, just mentioned £600 and EVs VED in April. I just thought I'd post it in the hope that someone would know more about and clarify it, as I'm very busy today and unable to do more.

41 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm glad that others have put some meat on the bones, I heard it on the radio but there was no depth to it, just mentioned £600 and EVs VED in April. I just thought I'd post it in the hope that someone would know more about and clarify it, as I'm very busy today and unable to do more.

 

Again you fall victim to the inaccurate hogwash splashing around propagating the tsunami of so called news which clearly does not make sense in that why would "all EVs" suddenly become more taxed than the cars governments of the world want their citizens to move away from.

 

Please think more and verify before being another tool of misinformation for goodness sake of us all.

 

 

A Vauxhall Corsa Electric did go on fire in Aberdeen, STV News, August.

 

There was lots on Facebook about an EV on fire in Inverurie, but it was driver error as it was a fag end starting a fire in the back seat where there was a fuel can sat. 

 

 

The battery appears to have not melted much, the 12volt one.

And what is melted under the bonnet is not the battery. 

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

A Vauxhall Corsa Electric did go on fire in Aberdeen, STV News, August.

 

There was lots on Facebook about an EV on fire in Inverurie, but it was driver error as it was a fag end starting a fire in the back seat where there was a fuel can sat. 

 

We had a few fires in our Bollore Blu Cars in Paris.  Generally traced to homeless breaking in to the car and starting a little fire to cook and keep warm with. Secondary reasons for the fires. 

 

39 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

 why would "all EVs" suddenly become more taxed than the cars governments of the world want their citizens to move away from.

 

 

 

 

errrm to make up the shortfall in tax income from fewer ICE cars being on the road.


The time is coming that those EV owners who like to make the most about the current situation will pay the price ;o)

21 minutes ago, Winston_Woof said:

errrm to make up the shortfall in tax income from fewer ICE cars being on the road.


The time is coming that those EV owners who like to make the most about the current situation will pay the price ;o)

 

And we are happy to contribute to road maintenance thru VED which always should be a minimum to cover registration so at least £20 but I think we are happy to pay a hundred quid m, or £120 or the like.

 

EV buyers pay thousands in VAT when they buy the cars of course which is a whole quantum level more than VED.

 

4 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

And we are happy to contribute to road maintenance thru VED which always should be a minimum to cover registration so at least £20 but I think we are happy to pay a hundred quid m, or £120 or the like.

 

EV buyers pay thousands in VAT when they buy the cars of course which is a whole quantum level more than VED.

 

All car buyers pay thousands in VAT regardless of motive source, another distraction/deflection attempt. It's not an EV specific thing.

EVs have benefitted from favourable VED rates  because of the Government's interventions in the market, it's time for those favourable rates to be scrapped

12 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

And we are happy to contribute to road maintenance thru VED which always should be a minimum to cover registration so at least £20 but I think we are happy to pay a hundred quid m, or £120 or the like.

 

EV buyers pay thousands in VAT when they buy the cars of course which is a whole quantum level more than VED.

 

VED is a tax that goes into the 'pot' and is not specifically used for road maintenance.

 

Every car buyer pays VAT on a new car.

 

If you buy a new Tesla above a basic model 3 the VED for the second year will be £600 as it stands.

3 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Again you fall victim to the inaccurate hogwash splashing around propagating the tsunami of so called news which clearly does not make sense in that why would "all EVs" suddenly become more taxed than the cars governments of the world want their citizens to move away from.

 

Please think more and verify before being another tool of misinformation for goodness sake of us all.

 

 

Not a victim at all, you really do need to calm down, and think a bit more yourself, perhaps maybe look in the mirror? If it is covered on a national radio news broadcast then you would normally expect there to be some substance, and as it turns out there was and it is all over online news.

DVLA says drivers could face £600 extra car tax bill in 2024 - Essex Live

There was also a major fire in Stadtallendorf, German, at a state of the art fire station which destroyed the stations and all the 9 fire engines and was caused by ...a fire truck’s lithium-ion batteries. Yes this is also a confirmed incident and is again well covered. There was an incident in Niort, France with Tesla bursting into thermal runaway with 4 trapped inside, all lost their lives, confirmed. 

Ukiah, California police dept have some Tesla cruisers which are already being withdrawn from service as they are running into problems, poor charging infrastructure, and generally not up to the task of being police cruisers, in a fire fight, officers are told to hide behind the engine block as shield, EVs don't have that protection, and a bullet would smash the battery, causing a deadly short circuit and a fire ball with deadly toxic clouds to engulf the officers. A bullet into a cars gas/petrol tank does not cause an explosion, Mythbusters proved this to be true.

 

A deadly explosion in a Poznań Poland, a tenement house claimed the lives of two heroic firefighters and injured 11 others, including civilians. The basement housed a lithium-ion battery refurshment  company operated in the basement and it was a lithium-ion battery that started the fire.

 

It also turns out according to Amnesty International, the materials being mined for EV batteries are not being mined in the safe fashion as has been claimed and is being hushed up.

New human rights ranking of electric vehicle industry exposes laggards

 

Lenitas cykelbatteri exploderade i köket – 10 familjer blev utan hem: ”Det är tufft” | SVT Nyheter

Biden-Harris admin recalls hundreds of electric school buses that could burn * WorldNetDaily * by Ireland Owens, Daily Caller News Foundation

Tesla’s self-driving cars investigated over safety in fog and bright sunlight

Florida fire marshal calls electric vehicles "ticking time bombs" amid Hurricane Milton flooding - CBS News

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

10 hours ago, Winston_Woof said:

All car buyers pay thousands in VAT regardless of motive source, another distraction/deflection attempt. It's not an EV specific thing.

EVs have benefitted from favourable VED rates  because of the Government's interventions in the market, it's time for those favourable rates to be scrapped

I think it is highly likely that the BIK rates will be changing, so EV drivers will be paying more, and is rumoured to be greater than the touted 1% and I'm hearing, but waiting for more clarifying supportive evidence that the salary sacrifice scheme is to be scrapped on EVs as well.

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by Graham Butcher

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

A Vauxhall Corsa Electric did go on fire in Aberdeen, STV News, August.

 

There was lots on Facebook about an EV on fire in Inverurie, but it was driver error as it was a fag end starting a fire in the back seat where there was a fuel can sat. 

 

 

The battery appears to have not melted much, the 12volt one.

And what is melted under the bonnet is not the battery. 

It is plain for anybody who knows a thing or two about fires that although this is an electric car, that the fire was 100% nothing to do with its traction battery, despite the flames appearing from underneath the car, flames are slowly rising upwards and not under any pressure, which a battery fire would be like a flamethrower sending jets of fire out sideways and downwards.

10 hours ago, lol-lol said:

And we are happy to contribute to road maintenance thru VED which always should be a minimum to cover registration so at least £20 but I think we are happy to pay a hundred quid m, or £120 or the like.

There will be an equivalent of fuel duty on the horizon in future as well of course, I'm sure you're looking forward to that.

@moley Every car buyer does not pay VAT on cars.  MOTABILITY Finance do not pay VAT on the vehicles they buy outright from the manufacturers / importers.

Then the person leasing the vehicle is exempt from VED.  They no longer need an exemption certificate as it is covered by a group cover.

Disable drivers or Registered Keepers of a privately owned or lease vehicle can be exempt from VED. Vehicle class disabled.

Conversions & Modifications of vehicles for disabled users is VAT exempt.

 

There are certain Emergency Vehicles & for Charities that are Zero VAT Rated or VAT Exempt.

That does not include Police Vehicles in Scotland, and their are Mountain Rescue vehicles not Zero VAT Rated. 

 

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by Ootohere

this is correct however (and if it keeps you happier) a more accurate statement is that VAT rules are applied equally regardless of motive power source. VED has been biased to give EVs an advantage in the market place 

1 hour ago, Dieselgate said:

There will be an equivalent of fuel duty on the horizon in future as well of course, I'm sure you're looking forward to that.

 

Electricity is something I can generate or by in cheap at certain times as I already do.

 

Charging per mile seems to be favourite as most EVs have their own telephone contract due to the SOS requirement so that seems the way to go. 

 

We already only pay 5% vat on grid supplies, nothing on what we generate ourselves so our fuel is too difficult to tax hence per mile seems to be the favourite.  Newer ICE cars have the cellular network SOS as well.  Older cars may just have a nominal flat flat rate adjusted after mot recording of actual it seems. Plus there will still be the excise duty on fuel but maybe at a lower rate.

 

Edited 21 October, 20241 yr by lol-lol

25 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Electricity is something I can generate or by in cheap at certain times as I already do.

 

Charging per mile seems to be favourite as most EVs have their own telephone contract due to the SOS requirement so that seems the way to go. 

 

We already only by 5% vat on grid supplies, nothing on what we generate ourselves so our fuel is too difficult to tax hence per mile seems to be the favourite.  Newer ICE cars have the cellular network SOS as well.  Older cars may just have a nominal flat flat rate adjusted after mot recording of actual it seems. Plus there will still be the excise duty on fuel but maybe at a lower rate.

 

Ice cars do not need to have PPM charge levied against them as it they already are paying per mile in fuel duty at the pump and as you once said, it is the easiest form of tax to collect as the retailer does it all for the government.

On 19/10/2024 at 10:05, wyx087 said:

Graph selectively presented can really tell a story isn't it.

 

You've selected change over time, with baseline being almost 0, of course today's number decided by almost 0 will be huge.

 

This is the default display for per capita CO2. Adding UK per capita gives this.

 

 

Of course, it's ever increasing and that is not good.

But UK has had worse emission for far longer time period, total emission (area under the graph) is far higher. From 1900 (start of industrial revolution) to 2100, over that 200 year time period, you can bet total per-capita emission (area under the graph) of China will be lower than UK.

 

Technology is ever improving, we in UK have the capital to invest in low carbon and we can be the innovators.

 

 

Graphs like what you've presented is often pushed across by rich western countries to say how well they are doing. But the reality is that the developed countries have polluted far worse and are trying to push developing countries to stop emission. From economic point of view this is indirect imperialism and oppression, stopping developing countries from establishing industries.

 

 

Hello! Well let's look at that, shall we?

The worst case year was 1971, which looked like this.

11.1t per capita UK

1.1t per capita China.

 

The UK population in 1971 was somewhat under 56m. (https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/GBR/united-kingdom/population)

That gives the UK's output of CO2 to be 55,875,903 * 11.1 = 620,222,523.3t (a precise rough figure IMO, but I'm running with the available data.)

The population of China in 1971 was somewhat over 843m. (https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CHN/china/population)

That gives China's output of CO2 to be 843,285,424 * 1.1 = 976,613,966.4t (another precise rough figure)

 

So even when the UK was at it's worst in terms of CO2 production, China was nearly 1.5 times worse.

 

So how are things today?

From the same source, the 2022 (the latest data for CO2 is for 2022, so I've used the same date for population) UK population is now 67,508,936 people, with a CO2 output 4.7t of per capita.

Meanwhile the population of China in 2022 was 1,425,887,337 people with a CO2 output of 8.0t per capita.

 

So UK's total CO2 output from the last available data was      67,508,936 * 4.7 =      317,291,999.2t

China's total CO2 output from the last available data was 1,425,887,337 * 8.0 = 11,407,098,696.0t

 

China is now nearly 36 times worse than the UK when it comes to CO2 production.

 

On 19/10/2024 at 10:05, wyx087 said:

From economic point of view this is indirect imperialism and oppression, stopping developing countries from establishing industries.

I don't care about that, and I don't think you should be trying to muddy the water with that sort of Marxist waffle. What next, CO2 reparations?

I think you've inadvertently tipped your hand here.

IMO a large part of the "climate change" agenda is far more about so-called 'social justice' and 'wealth redistribution' than it is any actual concern about the planet.

 

It is pretty simple why incentives were given to go over to EV,s in the UK, with Grants, Loans, Interest Free Loans and the VED advantage.

 

The UK Government signed up with the EU to figures for emissions reductions and various targets. 

These still exist, and then there are more that have been introduced. 

 

No point anyone getting their nickers in a twist about what is coming down the line in the UK.

As to those wetting their pants with excitement over others that have managed to play the game while it could be played having to pay up now, then that is fine.

Your times of having to pay out are coming what ever you drive. 

Like all figures, if you don't, apply the rules correctly, then you make the results reflect the outcome you wanted in the first place. You only need to refer to the world air quality Web site I gave the link to on many occasions and you can see just which countries and regions and even which cities are the worst right down to street level. But yet people are more prepared to listen to people who want to take yet more money away from poorest people. We going back towards the victorian era in terms of wealth distribution. 

16 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Like all figures, if you don't, apply the rules correctly, then you make the results reflect the outcome you wanted in the first place. You only need to refer to the world air quality Web site I gave the link to on many occasions and you can see just which countries and regions and even which cities are the worst right down to street level. But yet people are more prepared to listen to people who want to take yet more money away from poorest people. We going back towards the victorian era in terms of wealth distribution. 

Is this the site you mean, Graham?

https://waqi.info/

21 minutes ago, EnterName said:

Is this the site you mean, Graham?

https://waqi.info/

Yes that is it, take a detailed look at London, cross reference the readings with Google Earth Street View and the measuring stations can be seen and you will see the ones that are in the yellow at times are very close to  underground stations or underground vents, or even next to extraction fans from commercial kitchens. Most of the others, and there plenty are in the green, safe zones. 

Incidentally, I've been watching Barrie Crampton videos and have been looking for data to confirm/deny his claim that there's some sort of EV sales bubble going on, due to pre-registration of EVs, which he claims are a deliberate attempt to artificially boost sales to meet EV sales quota targets. I found myself on the SMMT website which provides the following data. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2024/08/used-car-sales-q1-2024-2/

I popped the data into Excel, applied a little conditional formatting colour magic, and below is the result.

The low figure for red shading I used was 100,000 and the high figure for green shading was 1,000,000.

So the lower the sales are in a given month, the more red the sales box is shaded, and the higher the sales are in a given month, the more green the box is.

 

I expected to see a greater impact on car sales in the UK in 2020, especially when you compare them with sales in 2022 when there was no lockdown.

(Lockdown timeline https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/timeline-lockdown-web.pdf)