1 hour ago, toot said:

Charging at home is the boy, public chargers with tariffs around the home tariff, public chargers that are reliable are just all fandabydozy.

Charging at home is £13.20 for 40kWh compared to an ICE getting 50 mpg and costing £18.45

But go on a 300 mile trip and need to spend 40-60 minutes charging after 140 miles and paying maybe £25 or more just to charge on a 50 kW charger is real world.

In Scotland if you want to just pay the same or a bit more than the home tariff that is the luck required to get on a charger, and it working, starting.

There are PHEV,s and Hybrids now that getting 55-60 mpg and plus is easy and no stopping after only 140 miles or even less.

These PHEV's or Hybrids are the size of the BEV's or larger that have batteries with around 30 or 40 or even 50 kWh batteries. 

Running a PHEV & charging on a Home Tariff standard or reduced / offpeak is what there are people going to, even those that have had EV's.

The reason being, they go places and have no intention of heading to places they do not want to be at just to get a car charged to continue their journey.

Heading to places they do not want to be at for 30 minutes to 1 hour where there are no toilets of facilities or maybe even good mobile reception, which sums up many Public Charging Hubs in Scotland.  Even Park & Rides with 1 Charger at them and maybe even that out of service.

 

Price of electricity, for those using single rate of cost per kWh, is due to go down to 30p per kWh on July 1st 2023 where it will stay there until end of September presumably.

I will still be paying 40p per kWh if I charge during daytime rates but 7.5p per kWh during the cheap 4 hours.  New Octopus rates are due to be 9.5 per KWh I gather.

 

I would be considering a Bi-fuel Dacia that runs on LPG as well as petrol as a non EV route.

 

I would be surprised if petrol is going to get any cheaper than the near £1.40 a litre currently.  With new hybrids doing 60 to 70 mpg and more a UK government might feel it can add the inflationary rise on to fuel duty, or at least reverse the 5p a litre reduction soon. 

 

Electricity is so versatile with over 30M outlets and growing. Perhaps we will get more individuals selling electricity from their houses ???

 

 

I used to run LPG when it was 50 pence a litre and petrol was £1.  But then it started rising and i gave up when it got to 70 pence and ASDA were taking out the LPG pumps.

 

VW Group /Audi were going the right way with TDI Hybrids, they built the cars, built the factories to build the engines, they spent billions and then were found out as 'Dirty Devils' with TDI's.

Actually Hybrid TDI's are 'simply clever'.

 

http://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/03/electric-vehicles-early-adopter-petrol-car-ev-environment-rowan-atkinson

 

Just paid 134p a litre here...

Down around 136.9 in many areas for E10 95 Unleaded. 

I've got to say that PHEVs can be a pain in the bum. I often charge up at home, drive a distance which will flatten the traction battery (it's nicely metered out during the course of the journey if you use the sat nav). But once away from home, I can't recharge. This is mainly down to the fact that PHEVS generally (or not at all afaik) don't have fast charging capabilities. They either do 3.7kW or 7kW charging, meaning you need either 4 or 2 hours to recharge. I don't have time to waste doing that sort of tethered recharge. I therefore fill up and drive around as a heavy 1.6 petrol car that is lugging around a crazy amount of excess weight. EV/PHEVS etc  still do not work for me and I can't see that changing between now and when I retire.

 

Once I no longer work I'll give EVs a proper look. but suspect I won't be able to afford one with decent range. 

That the thing with choices.

Plenty are retired or have cars for mostly local trips with occasional long ones and home charging on near by public chargers and are more than happy with a PHEV for their daily. 

Away from home they might charge a while stopped off and might even just do trips as far as home to charge place for regular outings.

 

EV Servicing and Maintenance an even PHEV servicing or lack of availability of getting booked in is proving an issue with more and more people that i have spoken to at chargers.

 

I doubt my next car will have any electrical 'motive' power, unless it's one of those pretend hybrids with the teeny self charge batteries and that would be because I had no choice in the matter. 

@Lady ElanoreI am waiting to see & drive the new Clio hybrid when they come out as i managed to get one of the current ones to do over 60 mpg driving for 90 minutes

&  just so i can buy a naff personal plate with the likes of CL10 S**  or CL10 *** for only £250

 

Then i started looking at what were on sale in the way of quickish older Clio Auto's and there were some real 'Demon Tweaks' specials up for sale & i remembered i am looking for a fuel sipper but not a Yaris.

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 June, 20233 yr by toot

11 minutes ago, toot said:

@Lady ElanoreI am waiting to see & drive the new Clio hybrid when they come out as i managed to get one of the current ones to do over 60 mpg driving for 90 minutes

&  just so i can buy a naff personal plate with the likes of CL10 S**  or CL10 *** for only £250

Then i started looking at what were on sale in the way of quickish older Clio Auto's and there were some real 'Demon Tweaks' specials up for sale & i remembered i am looking for a fuel sipper but not a Yaris.

 

I gather the Clio 2024 is still going to be the 1.6 litre naturally aspirated engine linked to the etech hybrid system and it is capable of well over 60 mpg but I find the acceleration a bit luke warm but the "decent" combo of the 1.2 turbo with the etech system is currently only in the Austral but hopefully will appear in other Renaults in the next year or two.

My 0.9 TCE can do well over 60 mpg and has a bit of torque.  So the 1.6 NA Clio has two Etech gears and 4 ICE gears making 6 forward gears but on the Arkana discussion group quite a few owners have had over-revving issue ie EMU hold on to middle gears and the engine screams a bit, something the 1.2 turbo engine does not do in my experience.    

 

Dacias are really good value as can be seen my their sales figures.

@lol-loli now only accelerate like cars around me if just out driving a city car with a passenger, & will only be getting a new car leasing from Motability. & a small comfy fuel sipper.

I will see what is available from the next quarter starting in July. 

So only from dealers near me and certainly not an Arnold Clark Dealership.  So that is Kia, Ford, Renault or Toyota.

All friendly and helpful and within 10 miles of me and not likely to close down in the next 3 years.

Disabled class vehicles are fine for taking into LEZ,s so not in any rush really to get another car.

5 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

They either do 3.7kW or 7kW charging, meaning you need either 4 or 2 hours to recharge. I don't have time to waste doing that sort of tethered recharge

But surely you are not driving the car the whole 24 hours every day? Vast majority of cars are parked up vast majority of the time.

 

Need more destination chargers everywhere, they help both BEV's and PHEV's.

 

 

5 hours ago, toot said:

EV Servicing and Maintenance an even PHEV servicing or lack of availability of getting booked in is proving an issue with more and more people that i have spoken to at chargers.

Buy an EV that' doesn't require any servicing to keep warranty

 

EV servicing garages:

https://hevra.org.uk/garages.html

@wyx087Leasing is someone else buying and you rent it, and servicing & maintenance is just part of it as you get a new car for a few years and you have no idea if it is total sh!te and will be needing a main dealer often.  For Warranty work or Recalls which have to be done.

Like Stellantis vehicles or VW Group ones & especially like TESLA. 

 

?

Did you buy your Tesla?

 

 

 

 

Edited 4 June, 20233 yr by toot

Leasing a Tesla should have similar experience as buying?

Any problem just make a service request via the app and it's taken care of by mobile tech the very next week.

@wyx087wonderful,  fantastic, tell that to some of the Tesla drivers in Scotland, of which there are plenty and many not all will believe you.

 

My family members in Norway are more than happy, a tech pops out and fits the roof bars and ski box and then comes back and removes them.

 

 

Edited 4 June, 20233 yr by toot

Scotland Tesla service centre might be the problem? We have another member that's had dreadful experience. My London service centre were efficient and brilliant. So it's probably a luck of the draw and I may have been lucky.

 

I bought it outright, I do this as much as possible: save, invest and then buy. 2020-2021 were great for my savings   we are on another tech surge now.

 

My Leaf had work done by my local HEVRA garage, admittedly on suspension rather than EV components, but I asked a few EV queries they seem a very knowledgeable bunch. It's only 20min walk from my house.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

But surely you are not driving the car the whole 24 hours every day? Vast majority of cars are parked up vast majority of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, if I am not working, I am travelling, sleeping, eating or trying to find my hotel whilst lost in London or another city centre. 

 

So here is a recent example. I've just come back from a couple of weeks working in Chelsea. Get up at 05:00hrs, do bathroom essentials and go to work. Finish work and travel back to digs, arriving at 20:00-20:30hrs (all done on the tube and 4 miles a day pounding the London streets). I then try to wind down, sort out a couple of emails (self-employed ) perhaps grab a quick bite from my landlord (he is generous with nibbles - oooh matron) and an optional quick drink, then hit the sack. Car parked in secure street location a good distance away. The deep joy is that on the day I return home, I rise at 05:00hrs, go to work etc, travel back to pick car up, return to site in order to pick up the boss who was working an extra hour or so beyond my hours (he lives near me and it was my turn to drive this year), then drive back together to the frozen North with a dead battery and a full tank, arriving at home sowhere between 01:30-02:30hrs. No way to recharge as I can't afford 4 hours plus the mucking about time needed, in order to charge my car. 

 

A similar thing will be happening to me in the near future when I will make two return trips to London over 5 days and have a similar problem. Usually I travel to work, park at site where there is no charging facilities and as I'm working a 12 hour day, plus travel (try not to stay in hotels/digs as they are very expensive these days and I've not had a pay rise in 5 years) so I lug around a dead weight on the return trip. As I've said, when I retire, it might make sense, or if I was fortunate to work near to home it would be fine, but I don't, never have for the most part and similarly, never will sadly. It's worse if I go from job to job as the car doesn't see a charge for several days. 

 

We had a senior manager turned up hours late for a job recently, as he was travelling up from London and couldn't find a functioning, or available, charger at a service station. PHEVS/EVs, not for me thanks. Having said that my 3008 is otherwise a great car. Comfy, spacious, lots and lots of toys, good-looking design too. Oh and 300bhp when charged, helps keep it fun....for a short while.

9 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

Having said that my 3008 is otherwise a great car.

That was top of SWMBO list, then she tried the cx-60... then she tried the tesla y dual m, even though thats not on her list...  I do like the cabins of the current line of pugs. Again I'm liking the looks of the 408 as I did the 508...
Sadly it was also 2x the price of an enyaq 80/teslaMY or the Ionic5 on her lease.
 

Edited 4 June, 20233 yr by ColinD

I think the best bit of the 3008 is its seats. Super comfy and have a built-in massage feature! The turning circle is astonishing too, something I didn't expect, but it turns around like a Nissan Micra. 

Edited 4 June, 20233 yr by Lady Elanore

9 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

Unfortunately, if I am not working, I am travelling, sleeping, eating or trying to find my hotel whilst lost in London or another city centre. 

 

No way to recharge as I can't afford 4 hours plus the mucking about time needed, in order to charge my car. 

I'm not saying to go somewhere and wait for the car to recharge. That would be very silly. 

 

I'm saying there may be chargers near your destination or wherever you park, plug in. It should ensure you have charge in your car on the next leg of your busy day. EV ownership is easy once we let go of the petrol station mentality: gotta wait by the car and refill at a central location. Anywhere anytime the car is stationary, it can recharge. Doesn't need anyone with the car. 

 

You mentioned London, there's always a charger within walking distance in around central and some areas of greater London. Drop off your kit and then plug in at nearby charger, a few min walk back to your destination? Parking directly outside destination in London is often fantasy anyway. 

Nothing near me, or I would have done it. Having around 8 hours between arrive at my digs and leaving my digs the next morning, I would have had to find a charge point before retiring to my bed, charge the car for 4 hours, get up out of bed, go and unplug car, return to a hopefully still available parking spot, walk back to digs and go to bed again. I don't think so. 9 days of punishing work means you simply can't afford to lose a nights sleep. I was sufficiently tiered near the end of the gig I fell asleep travelling into work and missed my tube stop. Plus, the extra cost of charging away from home on a street, means it's probably cheaper to drive my return leg of well over 200 miles lugging around the extra weight. As for working in Chelsea, there is the congestion zone charge. So I stay where I can afford digs (a long way away) rely on walking and tubes, avoid congestion charge, avoid over price charging facilities, avoid disrupting what little time I have that isn't work or travel and save money from not staying in Chelsea.  

 

My next trip to London is similar in its hours, perhaps they are slightly less brutal, although not by much. PHEVS charge so slowly it's a pain. It doesn't work for me, except when I have time off at home. So until I retire, I won't be actively looking for another electrically assisted vehicle again. Pain in the bum for some of us, easier for others. 

1 hour ago, Lady Elanore said:

I would have had to find a charge point before retiring to my bed, charge the car for 4 hours, get up out of bed, go and unplug car, return to a hopefully still available parking spot, walk back to digs and go to bed again.

Wait, you so dedicated to EV charging "etiquette" that you would get up middle of the night to unplug and move the car?

 

Slow chargers like that are meant to be destination chargers, just park up and charge. Don't need to move until you plan to leave. Treat it like a parking spot.

Right there is the issue.

 

Fine when there are lines of 7 / 11 kW chargers and 'come on down'. Plenty to choose from.

 But the 'i am all right jack and stuff everyone else is i am parked up and no longer charging and no way going out of my way to move and let others get charged.' is a p!ss take.

I’d move it in the night when I got up to take a ****  

 

thing is who’s going to get up to take the space over.

 

we need an app to optimise bladders and chargers.

 

goes of to shed to construct first gen peacharger app.