Pierburg egr failure

[psycho6149]

Hi,

 

Got a problem with my superb 170 tdi 4x4. Glow plug light flashing 😞. Had this back in January and was replaced by local indy with pierburg, clutch and flywheel also replaced and serviced at the same time. Expected a lot more mileage than 9k out of a new egr. Anyone any experience of failures this quickly ?

[Breezy_Pete]

Read fault codes before deciding on the cause of the warning light.

[psycho6149]

4891, 4892

[Breezy_Pete]

Fair enough. I wonder if some pipework in/out of the EGR might be (partially) blocked, causing sensors to perceive a flow fault with the EGR itself?

If that's what those codes relate to.

Has the car had the emissions 'fix'?

[psycho6149]

I had the 'fix' rolled back just after I bought it 4 years ago 

[PipH]

Fit one of these & forget about the EGR.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183869556154?hash=item2acf7ac5ba:g:OaAAAOSw-DRdHK14

 

The EGR isn't fit for purpose IMHO.

[psycho6149]

Would love to fit something like that, but everything I have read seems to indicate issues with DPF if EGR is blanked or mapped out / both

[PipH]

It just tricks the ECU into thinking the EGR is functioning normally.

 

If anything, it helps the DPF as less soot is produced by combustion. The combustion temperature is raised as no EGR gas to lower it. 

 

The ECU is programmed to disable the EGR when a DPF regen is required, so no problem there.

 

The MOT doesn't check NOX gas, just soot level, so no problem there either.

Edited 3 December, 2021 by PipH

[J.R.]

I will second that, I'm very pleased with my EGR emulator/simulator, a regen is triggered when the ECU calculates that the DPF will have 25g of soot but the actual measurement confirmed after twice calibrating the sensor is 4g or less.

 

I now want to roll back the emissions fix to reduce the unnecessary regens.

 

And I will never have to declag the inlet tract and throttle valve again.

[psycho6149]

How long have you had it fitted JR?

[J.R.]

A year all but a couple of weeks.

[psycho6149]

Thanks, did you fit it yourself?. My egr is still under warranty so this time I will get it replaced, but if it goes again it might get bypassed

[newskodadriver]

On 02/12/2021 at 22:40, PipH said:

Fit one of these & forget about the EGR.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183869556154?hash=item2acf7ac5ba:g:OaAAAOSw-DRdHK14

 

The EGR isn't fit for purpose IMHO.

Is this the same as egr delete? Does it need remapping? Can any garage do this? Does it pass emissions for mot both visually in the engine bay and from the exhaust? 

 

I've just been quoted a bill of about 700 for a new egr unit. I'm not a mechanic but I've always thought the concept of the egr is like the mechanical version of the human centipede, what kind of sick scientist thought feeding exhaust gas to an engine was a good idea.. 

Edited 9 December, 2021 by newskodadriver

[PipH]

5 minutes ago, newskodadriver said:

Is this the same as egr delete? Does it need remapping? Can any garage do this? Does it pass emissions for mot both visually in the engine bay and from the exhaust? 

 

I've just been quoted a bill of about 700 for a new egr unit. I'm not a mechanic but I've always thought the concept of the egr is like the mechanical version of the human centipede, what kind of sick scientist thought feeding exhaust gas to an engine was a good idea.. 

Yes it tricks the ECU into thinking the EGR is still functioning, when in fact it has been un-plugged from the cars wiring.

The ECU doesn't need any re-mapping.

The DPF still function exactly as before but with much less particulates going into it, so if anything has a much easier life.

NOX gas from the exhaust will increase, but that isn't tested at the MOT, so the car will pass no problem.

The unit ( EGR Simulator ) is just an electronic box with 3 cables.

One cable plugs into the plug removed from the EGR.

The other two cables plug into the MAF sensor on the air filter pipe & the plug removed from the MAF sensor..

I've only fitted to the 2l engine, takes no more than half an hour. 

Remove the air pipe to the turbo for access down the back of the engine.

You need a mirror to be able to see the EGR plug that has to be removed, that is the hardest thing & once located & removed, the rest is plain sailing.

Use plastic ties to keep the wiring neat & away from anything hot or liable to rub.

I'm pretty sure the 1.6 engine will be almost exactly the same.

 

Look at the sellers add which shows the work required to fit.

 

Once fitted you can clean out the throttle valve & inlet manifold of all the black EGR gunk & know it will stay nice & clean, as the engine will no longer be ingesting it's own excrement.

The oil will stay cleaner for longer as well.

[newskodadriver]

13 minutes ago, PipH said:

Yes it tricks the ECU into thinking the EGR is still functioning, when in fact it has been un-plugged from the cars wiring.

The ECU doesn't need any re-mapping.

The DPF still function exactly as before but with much less particulates going into it, so if anything has a much easier life.

NOX gas from the exhaust will increase, but that isn't tested at the MOT, so the car will pass no problem.

The unit ( EGR Simulator ) is just an electronic box with 3 cables.

One cable plugs into the plug removed from the EGR.

The other two cables plug into the MAF sensor on the air filter pipe & the plug removed from the MAF sensor..

I've only fitted to the 2l engine, takes no more than half an hour. 

Remove the air pipe to the turbo for access down the back of the engine.

You need a mirror to be able to see the EGR plug that has to be removed, that is the hardest thing & once located & removed, the rest is plain sailing.

Use plastic ties to keep the wiring neat & away from anything hot or liable to rub.

I'm pretty sure the 1.6 engine will be almost exactly the same.

 

Look at the sellers add which shows the work required to fit.

 

Once fitted you can clean out the throttle valve & inlet manifold of all the black EGR gunk & know it will stay nice & clean, as the engine will no longer be ingesting it's own excrement.

The oil will stay cleaner for longer as well.

So my problem isn't an egr valve exactly, it's the cooler. P0403. But integrated in a single unit. 

 

Once you plug this in, does it by pass the cooler as well? 

 

I've been looking at what a cooler does, and as the name suggests it cools the exhaust gasses. I have a 2l 170 diesel 2012 mk2. 

 

Does my car use coolant in the egr cooler or is it purely physical. Cos I'm thinking that actually, hotter gas won't actually be bad for the engine? Because if you remove the egr the engine will run hotter anyway? Emissions are like polar bears and Greta Thunberg, don't care about any of them...

 

The car doesnt go into limp mode atm. Was told as long as I keep reseting the engine light, the dpf will kick in. 

 

Of course if coolant is leaking into the engine that would be bad.. But so far I haven't noticed any coolant loss from the big plastic ball. 

[PipH]

The EGR is disabled by the simulator, so the cooler then becomes redundant, although it will still have coolant flowing around it.

 

It sounds like your EGR is clogged with black exhaust particles, eventually it will fail & cause limp mode.

 

My son's one on his Tiguan failed stuck open & prevented the engine from starting.

 

He's had no further problems since fitting the simulator over the last 2 years.

[J.R.]

49 minutes ago, PipH said:

Yes it tricks the ECU into thinking the EGR is still functioning, when in fact it has been un-plugged from the cars wiring.

The ECU doesn't need any re-mapping.

The DPF still function exactly as before but with much less particulates going into it, so if anything has a much easier life.

NOX gas from the exhaust will increase, but that isn't tested at the MOT, so the car will pass no problem.

The unit ( EGR Simulator ) is just an electronic box with 3 cables.

One cable plugs into the plug removed from the EGR.

The other two cables plug into the MAF sensor on the air filter pipe & the plug removed from the MAF sensor..

I've only fitted to the 2l engine, takes no more than half an hour. 

Remove the air pipe to the turbo for access down the back of the engine.

You need a mirror to be able to see the EGR plug that has to be removed, that is the hardest thing & once located & removed, the rest is plain sailing.

Use plastic ties to keep the wiring neat & away from anything hot or liable to rub.

I'm pretty sure the 1.6 engine will be almost exactly the same.

 

Look at the sellers add which shows the work required to fit.

 

Once fitted you can clean out the throttle valve & inlet manifold of all the black EGR gunk & know it will stay nice & clean, as the engine will no longer be ingesting it's own excrement.

The oil will stay cleaner for longer as well.

An excellent description, one I concur with 100%

[newskodadriver]

15 minutes ago, PipH said:

The EGR is disabled by the simulator, so the cooler then becomes redundant, although it will still have coolant flowing around it.

 

It sounds like your EGR is clogged with black exhaust particles, eventually it will fail & cause limp mode.

 

My son's one on his Tiguan failed stuck open & prevented the engine from starting.

 

He's had no further problems since fitting the simulator over the last 2 years.

Hes had no trouble with MOT? As in visual inspection of modifications, not actually emissions I know you said only particulates are measured. I know that dpf removals or egr delete is probably "illegal", but is this "arguable"? 

 

The other option open to me if I want to stay squeaky clean seems to be a pre owned unit, ebay has whole unit for about 50 quid taken from broken car, or about 20 for someone who's disassembled the cooler from the valve. 

[PipH]

His car has gone through 2 MOT's fine, mine has passed 2 MOT's also with one fitted.

 

The only way they would see a problem during an MOT is that there is no longer an electrical connector in the EGR.

But it is quite well hidden from above & below as long as the undertray is fitted.

 

Any work on the EGR is difficult due to very limited access, which is why it costs so much in labour to replace.

To my mind it's going to fail at some time in the future, so being pre-emptive isn't a bad thing, especially if failure leads to you being stranded somewhere with a non-starting engine.

[J.R.]

Most MOT testers are not there to bust your balls & won't go looking for something that they probably agree with and would do themselves, if its in plain sight and could not be missed then they could well cover their backside.

 

The only visible part is the new connector to the MAF sensor and the loom to it which looks identical to the stock one.