Felicia fuel tank capacity and TC-6 measurements

[D.FYLAKTOS]

Dear Felicians, trying to calculate better my fuel consumption with the TC-6 at city traffic except the Current fuel consumption, the Average Consumption i take notice at the Kilometres remaining.

 

Here is the tank and relative parts

 

 

https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/etka/skoda/fel/101/201100/

 

and here it is as an estate part.

 

 

According to the data the tank's capacity is 42 litres.

 

My method in gas station is not the ''fill it up" or ''put as much as can takes" but i said to the employee to put the pump to the auto mode  like this

 

 

and when stops to pull it out without the ''should i round it?" as some employees insist.

 

I want your help in 2 matters:

1) the 42 litre number is when the pump stops? has anyone ever tried to reach the maximum and if yes what was the number?

2) the TC-6 Kilometres remaining function as the manual says "the number is calculated from the fuel level and the average fuel consumption over the last 50 kilometres"

so can i use this as alternative fuel consumption method? For example: let's say the tank limit is 42 ltr and the number on the Lcd is 475 Km so my car had a 8.84 ltr/ 100 Km fuel consumption from the previous refuelling or am i wrong?

 

[KenONeill]

None of the above. That said, the click off of the pump is controlled by back pressure from the fuel tank, and gives a pretty consistent content level across a range of pump sites. Yes, I have tested that, across a number of cars, locations, weather conditions, and even on both petrol and diesel.

Edited 1 January, 2022 by KenONeill

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the 42 litre number is when the pump stops? has anyone ever tried to reach the maximum and if yes what was the number?

 

That's my main question.

Have you?

 

11 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

 and gives a pretty consistent content level across a range of pump sites.

Yes, I have tested that, across a number of cars, locations, weather conditions, and even on both petrol and diesel.

 

"Consistent"?

The A gas station has a tampered pump among three, the B gas station has an inclination, the C gas station is in a hot island but the D is deep inside a cold mountain road so ''Yes" as you said with the same car every time you hear the ''click" from the pump are you 100% sure that you have inside your tank the same amount of fuel?

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The A gas station has a tampered pump among three, the B gas station has an inclination, the C gas station is in a hot island but the D is deep inside a cold mountain road

If you actually believe that, you clearly need honest men and true to enforce Weights and Measures legislation. In the UK, giving short measure is a quick route to very large fines.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

 

 

14 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Yes, I have tested that, across a number of cars, locations, weather conditions, and even on both petrol and diesel.

If you actually believe that,

 

In the UK, giving short measure is a quick route to very large fines.

 

1) If you have tested and you are sure about the term

"Consistent"  then as we say here ''you are the joy of the sneaky gas station owner".

For what i said above yes i believe it because i pay attention to this from 1991.

 

2) So the fuel fraud there is Zero?

 

https://www.crownoil.co.uk/news/up-to-260-million-in-tax-owed-to-hmrc-by-fuel-fraudsters/

 

So since you don't know or you don't want to participate let's move on to other members opinion.

 

18 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Dear Felicians, i want your help in 2 matters:

1) the 42 litre number is when the pump stops? has anyone ever tried to reach the maximum and if yes what was the number?

2) the TC-6 Kilometres remaining function as the manual says "the number is calculated from the fuel level and the average fuel consumption over the last 50 kilometres"

so can i use this as alternative fuel consumption method? For example: let's say the tank limit is 42 ltr and the number on the Lcd is 475 Km so my car had a 8.84 ltr/ 100 Km fuel consumption from the previous refuelling or am i wrong?

 

 

[Ootohere]

^^^ Nothing to do with short measures.

 

If you think you are under served fuel you buy then take a vessel and put the 1 litre or 5 litres in fuel and be sure you get what you pay for.

Even go by weight.

 

A fuel tank capacity is just that, not including fuel up the pipe. Vented space etc.

 

Get an empty tank and fill it with liquid and see the actual capacity of that tank.  Not with the filler pipe attached. 

 

 

 

Edited 2 January, 2022 by roottoot

[D.FYLAKTOS]

 

"Why is the actual capacity of automotive fuel tanks bigger than nominal capacity?"

 

http://www.s-oil7.net/eng/knowledge/expert/view.jsp?seq=79

 

The whole matter is huge so i had to stay to the basics.

Can i take for granted he number 42 ltr?

Has any Felician tried to overfill his tank?

 

[nta16]

Your method of autofill and not more is about as good as it gets for a 'modern' (compared to mine) car like yours, as you have put using the TC-6 kilometres remaining function only relates to the previous 50 kilometres so unless all the preceding travel was at exactly the same circumstances it only relates to those last 50 kilometres which can vary going forward too.

 

The nominal capacities are just that nominal.  The link you put up about fuel tanks has no date to it so may not apply to a car from 2000.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

 TC-6 kilometres remaining function only relates to the previous 50 kilometres

Yes but i am using my car lately for small routes "house to work and back" which means 8-9 Km distance only.

If my calculations show for example a consumption of 9,3 lt/ 100 Km (among those 50 Kilometres limit) isn't this good news?

[nta16]

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Yes but i am using my car lately for small routes "house to work and back" which means 8-9 Km distance only.

If you just want to compare like-for-like journeys and situation rather than overall that is fine depending on the repeated accuracy of the TC-6.

 

 

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

If my calculations show for example a consumption of 9,3 lt/ 100 Km (among those 50 Kilometres limit) isn't this good news?

It depends on whether this is an improvement or not on previous figures, if so good.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

If you just want to compare like-for-like journeys and situation rather than overall that is fine depending on the repeated accuracy of the TC-6.

 

 

It depends on whether this is an improvement or not on previous figures, if so good.

 

 Oh yes.

 

The previous calculations result was a disaster so any improvement is welcome.

I have to take as a standard that the click from the pump at the end means 42 litres are inside the tank.

With this as a base, my current fuel consumption is getting better and better.

[nta16]

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I have to take as a standard that the click from the pump at the end means 42 litres are inside the tank.

For fuel consumption calculations your tank capacity does not matter, it is just distance covered over fuel consumed.

 

Once you have refilled the tank on auto and no more, immediately reset tripometer to zero before starting the car and leaving the petrol station.  Drive the car for say 5 (6?) days of your home to work and back, so 40-45 km (48-54 km), then refill the tank on auto and no more, note the amount of fuel this took from the fuel pump, and your distance from the tripometer.   Dividing these two figures will give you a very reasonable accurate fuel consumption figure.

 

If you want you can compare it against other method to confirm how accurate the other method is, or not. 

Edited 3 January, 2022 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

For fuel consumption calculations your tank capacity does not matter, it is just distance covered over fuel consumed.

 

Once you have refilled the tank on auto and no more, immediately reset tripometer to zero before starting the car and leaving the petrol station. 

 

 

 

The odometer if you have changed the wheels-tyres does not show the proper distance comparing to the original dimensions, there is an error from slightest to 3.9%.

Different gas stations, different inclination, different weather conditions, different pump (maybe tampered) etc so except of using the same gas station with the same method for refuelling the above is not good.

 

The TC-6 is an old design trip computer but i had to work with it for the problem that i face the latest years, the videos on YT are with non-english language but i am a persistent and sometimes stubborn when i have a problem, i will not give up till i find the solution.

[nta16]

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The odometer if you have changed the wheels-tyres does not show the proper distance comparing to the original dimensions, there is an error from slightest to 3.9%.

If you have changed the wheels and/or tyre size there are websites that can show the percentage difference, if working it out for yourself you must also allow for the rolling circumference of the tyres.  Or give me the sizes and I can work it out.

 

Then of course the odometer itself could have error from factory which a change of wheel/tyre size could compensate for or make worse.  Speedos can be calibrated and made surprisingly precise and accurate and then the odometer and tripometer can be more precise than a digital with one decimal place as with those you can judge the part turn of tenth km cog face number whereas with digital it only changes at one point.

 

Whilst you may get differences between the tripometer and TC-6 for distance it should not be that great and will still serve as a comparison because the errors in each system should be fairly consistent so constant accuracy of both sets of readings to compare with each set and against one another.

 

 

3 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

except of using the same gas station with the same method for refuelling the above is not good.

I did think you would want to use the same petrol (gas is American) station and even perhaps the same pump.  The video rootoot put up explains why you do not need to worry too much about weather, I have no idea about language translator on phones or devices but they seem to exist(?). 

 

I think you may be trying to get to a level of precision and accuracy that does not exist to the general public, if you do enough tests the variances will more or less even out, you only have to have a coughing and/or farting fit one day to throw the figures out for real accuracy, different footwear, slightly different traffic conditions, you are not working for VW trying to cheat the figures up just accept the accuracy available.

 

Edited 4 January, 2022 by nta16

[Ootohere]

Thank goodness things are so easy these days no matter how old a vehicle is.

All that is needed is measure accurately the fuel you put into a vehicle and use a GPS to check, even a sport watch / phone GPS,  distance, elevation changes, temperatures and any other things that concern you.  

 

Run a vehicle, be responsible for servicing, tyres / pressures, fuel used & have a good memory or keep records and job done. 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Or give me the sizes and I can work it out.

 

I was on 165/70/13 and now i am with 176/60/14 which is very close

https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=165-70r13-175-60r14

 

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

think you may be trying to get to a level of precision and accuracy that does not exist to the general public,

 

you are not working for VW trying to cheat the figures up

 

''It's not the problem, it's about the project''

 

Remeber the VWgate?

https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/vwgate/?hl=el

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

 

The TC-6 started to show the first good signs, with previous coolant at first crank was showing 3.2 litres per hour before start dropping to 0.8-0.9 which is the idle at 850 rpm, now after removing part of thick coolant it and replace it with distilled water it shows 2.6 litre per hour which is a great improvement.

 

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, roottoot said:

All that is needed is measure accurately the fuel you put into a vehicle

 

and use a GPS to check, even a sport watch / phone GPS,  distance, elevation changes, temperatures and any other things that concern you.  

1) That's the main goal

2) You forgot the wind, altitude and the moisture (Snipers check them too). 

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

The video rootoot put up explains why you do not need to worry too much about weather,

 

I know the Australian guy in the video from the past but sorry but we don't watch videos like this one, we don't like too much abbreviations, grimaces, irrelevant interventions, etc so when something like this show up we bypass it.

As some others have established the ''All Greek to me'' (although they use Greek letters, phrases, terms etc on their every day vocabulary without wanting to admit it) so do we established from the 60's the ''Americanies''.

 

We watch video from these guys (Sirennet for example)

 

 

even guys like Scotty Kilmer but not with style like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nta16]

4 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I was on 165/70/13 and now i am with 176/60/14 which is very close

You could factor that in if you wanted for trip to TC-6 or just ignore it as it makes such little difference.

 

 

4 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

now after removing part of thick coolant it and replace it with distilled water it shows 2.6 litre per hour which is a great improvement.

I originally thought you were running 40% or 50% antifreeze then removed it to almost all distilled water to run as a flush but I get it now.

 

Come the summer if you have access to a hose pipe I would do a clean, full flushes and refill of the three parts of the system as I put before, as a thorough cleaning of the cooling/heating system on older cars is one that is one of my hobbyhorses.

 

I watch Scotty Kilmer but bear in mind he's entirely USA (you might recognise the following) and I recognised the Judge in the jive talk clip.

 

Edited 4 January, 2022 by nta16

[D.FYLAKTOS]

12 hours ago, nta16 said:

I watch Scotty Kilmer but bear in mind he's entirely USA

 

Yes but we still can understand him, also we watch Chris Fix, 1ROAD, Headlight Revolution etc, even guys with ''russian'' accent as Sergiu Gabor are understandable but when we see video with screams and ghetto style behaviour as the first videos of KLEANTRIX then we bypass it.

 

The bad thing about TC-6 is that the videos are made from Czech or Polish guys, no english subtitles, don't respond to email and the worst is that it's impossible to find a Greek driver with TC-6 in his Felicia to talk and exchange informations.

 

I wonder does anyone tried ever to full fill his tank?

How many litres above the specifications manage to get inside? In Felicia is 42 litres but anyone ever tried to see the limit? Is 43, 44 litres or more?

 

[nta16]

4 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Yes but we still can understand him, also we watch Chris Fix, 1ROAD, Headlight Revolution etc, even guys with ''russian'' accent as Sergiu Gabor are understandable but when we see video with screams and ghetto style behaviour as the first videos of KLEANTRIX then we bypass it.

1Road and I think Chris Fix are not mechanics, I do not know the overs but I guess all of them including the Australian have their YouTube channels to earn money which means providing an element of entertainment using their personalities or perhaps even exaggerated versions so obviously their appeal is going to vary viewers.

 

 

5 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The bad thing about TC-6 is that the videos are made from Czech or Polish guys, no english subtitles, don't respond to email and the worst is that it's impossible to find a Greek driver with TC-6 in his Felicia to talk and exchange informations.

If they do not reply to emails in their own language then they are not a company I would recommend but this is the same for many companies who also make it extremely difficult to contact by phone or other means.

 

 

5 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

How many litres above the specifications manage to get inside? In Felicia is 42 litres but anyone ever tried to see the limit? Is 43, 44 litres or more?

If you try to fill too much could you overload any other fuel system returns or such stuff depending on what is on your car?

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

are not mechanics,

 

if you try to fill too much could you overload any other fuel system returns or such stuff depending on what is on your car?

 

Youtube is just a modern tool, in older days we had books and the ''ask to learn'' system.

 

Sometimes here the employees after the pump stops in purpose press again for few click wich means more fuel, their excuse is ''to round the amount'' for example from 12,20 euro to 15 or from 36,50 to 40 euro etc.

This suppose to help in payment (no coins for change) but it's something that i hate plus ruins my fuel calculation.

 

TC-6 it's my first trip computer, when i bought my car 21 years ago there was no forum or Youtube to search for informations.

[nta16]

There still are books, like instruction manuals or leaflets but some men, mechanics and engineers (almost always men) have too much ego, arrogance, machismo to read such things, those are the ones that blame the parts rather than their fitting of them for the faults that continue or follow.

 

YouTube is a good tool for learning but as with many other forms you have to verify the quality, and scope, of the information you get.

 

I did not realise that you did not "pump the gas" yourself, over here in all but a few places it is self-service not with an attendant at the pump and you can pay at the pump you are using by credit or debit card (and perhaps other cards I do not know about for business).

 

In the UK there are lots of different car clubs and always were before the internet and some soon had Bulletin Board style forums and basic websites.  Given the high rate of taxes on fuel in the UK miles per gallon and price per gallon (and litre for a few decades now) has been a reoccurring subject.  As I used to do a lot of pleasure driving it was never a topic that really bothered me I would only occasionally check as a matter of how well the car and engine was running with regards to maintenance and repairs.

 

[D.FYLAKTOS]

8 hours ago, nta16 said:

I did not realise that you did not "pump the gas" yourself, over here in all but a few places it is self-service not with an attendant at the pump and you can pay at the pump you are using by credit or debit card (and perhaps other cards I do not know about for business).

 

That system here in only for gas stations that work late at night, they have a default price for example 5-10-20-50 euro, you pay by cash on the slot or by card and the pump stops automaticaly.

 

At day is an employee which many times suggests the amount rounding (gas owner instructions) and that destroys my fuel consumption measurement.

 

It's vital for me to know that the end of the pump means that 42 litres are in my tank.

[D.FYLAKTOS]

TC-6 measurement at cold start in the morning: 2.6 litres per hour (was 3.6-3.2 before) and after few hours when i moved the car from the parking show 2.2 litres per hour and finally when i finished my shift show 2.3 litres per hour.

The numbers dropping very fast to the 1.2-1 litre per hour and meanwhile the idle reached the 850 rpm which means things are getting much better. 🤩

[nta16]

7 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

At day is an employee which many times suggests the amount rounding (gas owner instructions) and that destroys my fuel consumption measurement.

Obviously I do not know how things operate in your country but can you not explain to him why you want an exact fill and not rounded up.

 

Over here the people that work at petrol stations have no reason to care how much fuel you put in your tank.  I have read that there is a minimum delivery of 2 litres for the pump to be accurate with its delivery.  As nearly all the fuel sold here is by large supermarket or oil  brands I am sure that while there may be mistakes and some inaccuracies in measurements generally they would not be on purpose and sorted as these brands do not like bad publicity and the national newspapers and other media would love to tell of such goings on.