I'll try to be a detailed as possiable, Over the last couple of months my felicia has developed a whining noise, and a grinding noise, at the same time. The whine sounds i bit like the whine you would get from a straight cut gear gearbox, and the grinding sounds like the noise you would get from first application of brakes on rusty brake discs. I don't know if both sounds are assosiated or or from 2 seperate issues just coinciding together.

The whine only happens when the car is moving, in gear, and with clutch engaged, it becomes more pronounced when under load e.g. when using engine braking in 2nd or 3rd gear going down a steep hill, or whilst climing a steep hill in any gear, if the clutch is depressed i.e disengaged whilst under the above situations it goes away.

The grinding noise can be slightly heard all the time, but is more pronounced the faster I drive in any gear, under any engine load.

Also mabey related to this issue, sometimes it can be difficult to downshift into 1st or 2nd gear when engine is cold and still moving, and sometimes the car jumps when reverse is selected.

The above information leads me to think that the clutch is on it's way out, especially as the age/mileage of the clutch is unknown, but there is no clutch slip at all for example, the car stalls if I attempt to pull away in  3rd or 4th, and engine revs don't rise when 5th gear engaged up a very steep hill.

I'm thinking other possibilities may be, other clutch parts worn i.e pressure plate/ pressure plate springs or cutch release bearing

OR

Gearbox/Differentional issues, like a worn 1st/2nd syncro unit, input or output shaft bearings, or diff bearings.

 

Any one have any theories, or tests I could do to narrow down the possibilities?

 

Things I have already checked are:

Gear oil correct level

No oil in clutch bellhousing

Clutch bite point, it's pretty much still in the same position as when I got the car.

No play in driveshafts / C/V joints

my guess is cv shafts

1 hour ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

my guess is cv shafts

Inner, Outer, or both?

Do you mean wear in the c/v shaft splines?

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Do you know if one or both noises are road speed or engine/transmission revs related.

 

Can you do a public view audio or video recording of the noises.

 

Edited 8 November, 20223 yr by nta16
ETA: Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

15 hours ago, R_U_AFA said:

Do you mean wear in the c/v shaft splines?

i cant per say, pinpoint it but most likely the cv joints (outter)
but given that the more torque that is applied the louder it gets i would say its a wear issue

The weak point in CV shafts is the boot. After years and miles of turning and bumping up and down with the suspension the boots weaken and begin to tear. A torn CV boot allows the grease to leave the joint and road dirt, water and other contaminates to enter the joint. Contaminants inside of the joint cause friction which creates accelerated wear on the internal components in the joint and creates play inside of the joint.

Once a CV shaft has failed you can hear a loud click, click, click noise when turning the vehicle and slowly accelerating.

 

https://www.timsquality.com/blog/cv-shafts--what-are-they-and-how-do-they-fail-

 

C/V boots are ok, and there is no clicking noise when reversing on full lock, also there doesn't seem to be any rotational free play in driveshaft / c/v joints

 

22 hours ago, nta16 said:

Do you know if one or both noises are road speed or engine/transmission revs related

 

It seems to be engine/trasmission related, because as a test today, when going downhill under engine braking both noises were apparant, then I disengaged clutch (i.e pressed the pedel), whine totally disappears, grinding becomes very faint, then I moved gearstick to neutral, released clutch pedel and coasted downhill, again whine still totally gone, grinding very faint(Both times I still had engine running)

11 hours ago, R_U_AFA said:

 

It seems to be engine/trasmission related,

 

When you press the clutch pedal the noise stops? Many times when you start the car at morning when it's cold you hear that noise too?

It's a rythmic noise ''kar-kar-kar'' the same tempo with car's idle noise?

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

What about something like the alternator (water pump?), how easy is to disconnect the drive (fan) belt to see if noses disappear, or carefully listen with some sort of stethoscope.

 

So today's test was; when coasting downhill, in neutral, clutch released, and engine off, no noise at at all.

 

Now to answer some questions,

 

9 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

When you press the clutch pedal the noise stops?

 

Yes, for the whining noise, but remember that this noise only happens under load

No for the grinding noise.

 

9 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Many times when you start the car at morning when it's cold you hear that noise too?

 

Yes, grinding noise only, and it is fainter at idle

 

9 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

It's a rythmic noise ''kar-kar-kar'' the same tempo with car's idle noise?

 

Yes, this describes the grinding noise, except it's mor like "KAR-kar-kar"-"KAR-kar-kar", capital letters emphising that it is louder at some points before repeating again

 

8 hours ago, nta16 said:

What about something like the alternator (water pump?), how easy is to disconnect the drive (fan) belt to see if noses disappear, or carefully listen with some sort of stethoscope.

 

Tryed this with screwdriver stethoscope around verious points on engine/ancillary components/gearbox, only problem is I don't have any point of reference to what noisey/rumbling failing bearings would sound like.

I will admit though that the alternator is noisier than other components, but it does not have the rythmic noise as described above, it's just rumbles with louder than other components.

(I guess this is a possability for the grinding noise)

 

 

 

 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Alternator (water pump?) (tensioner roller?) perhaps might be one of the noises, is the belt tight (or tensioner stiff seized)?

 

You could perhaps have the bonnet up and see how it sounds just idling from starting then remove the drive belt and see how it sounds just idling from starting without the belt and see if it sounds better.

 

@R_U_AFA : Take a look at this

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/499328-how-much-time-do-you-warm-up-your-felicia/?do=findComment&comment=5616459

 

it's similar to your problem? I Had it and some times still i hear that noise it but the solution is simple, double clutch.

2 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

it's similar to your problem? I Had it and some times still i hear that noise it but the solution is simple, double clutch.

I'll give that a go, but mine being right hand drive car, the clutch arm / cable is a little diffrent, but I suppose the principle will be the same.

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Alternator (water pump?) (tensioner roller?) perhaps might be one of the noises, is the belt tight (or tensioner stiff seized)?

 

You could perhaps have the bonnet up and see how it sounds just idling from starting then remove the drive belt and see how it sounds just idling from starting without the belt and see if it sounds better.

 

I changed water pump 3 months ago, so shouldn't be that

Tensioner roller I replaced 3-4 years back

The tensioner didn't seem too stiff when I changed pump, nor did the belt seem too tight

Alternator could be suspect, because I've never done any work on it, and it does look original

Removing the belt is a bit of a faf because on the 1.3mpi there is only around 6-7mm of space between the belt and chasis leg, but doing this it would eliminate a few components from the list of suspects .

Alternator pulley oen way sprag clutch is a common source of terminal sounding noises, it's easy to diagnose and  ou dont need to remove the belt to do so, - if the longest run of the serpentine belt oscillates back and forth a visible amount then the clutch is foutu, an easy job to replace.

 

 

19 hours ago, J.R. said:

Alternator pulley oen way sprag clutch is a common source of terminal sounding noises,

Not sure if felicia 1.3mpi alternator has a sprag clutch, I'll have to have an investigate.

Yes, that may have been a wrong assumption on my part, it might be only diesels with their inertial acceleration/decelerations each revolution that require one.

So had another listen around at idle with stethoscope, and it would seem that the water pump is quite grumbly and loud. Now as mentioned previously I have only changed this a few months ago, so quite dissapointed if this part has started to fail, it was a vika one from skoda-parts, so shouldn't be failing this soon.

This wouldn't explain the whining noise which i'm pretty sure is something related to the gears/gearbox.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

What's the tension like on the drive belt and tensioner, if too tight it could play up the bearing in the water pump, new or not.  ETA: In four years since you fitted it lots could happen and with the quality of some modern made parts the tensioner could be faulty.

 

Water pumps can whine, and alternator, something I have tried before is to spray (GT85 would be my choice now) the drive shafts on the water pump (this will not stop the pump bearing grinding) but if the noise changes there's a clue, I had a noise stop by doing this on my car and same for a mate, if it was crud/grit/**** washed away I've no idea but the noises didn't return - this might not be the case for you but

it might help with locating.

 

Then try the same trick on the alternator fan drive shaft and tensioner roller drive depending on type, anything that might spin on crud/grit/****, you're not supposed to get it on the drive belt or belt drive surfaces.

 

If you're sure the whine is from the gearbox is it easy to drop out a little oil to see it's colour and consistency and see, feel, if there are any bits are in it.

 

That's me out of ideas.

 

Edited 15 November, 20223 yr by nta16
ETA:

12 hours ago, R_U_AFA said:

it was a vika one from skoda-parts,

 

I would not buy a Vika for such a ''crucial'' part, there are some  other brands in the market, for example here  and here and here .

Here is mine https://ntotsikasparts.gr/product/aquaplus-antlia-nerou-skoda-felicia-1-3-96-6-loukia-10691-85-5705/ installed 4 years ago.

Edited 16 November, 20223 yr by D.FYLAKTOS

So the grinding noise was the water pump, in fact the pumps shaft had that much lateral movement it was allowing the impeller to foul against the engine block. So wouldn't recommend a vika water pump from my experience with this incedent, but it is possible that it was just a one off manufacturing defect restricted to this part.

The replacement pump is a mastersport from autodoc.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

Thanks for reporting back.  Glad you got it sorted.  Unfortunately I'm not too surprised that a modern made part was faulty or didn't last too long as I'm so used to it from the world of "classic" (old over-priced, overvalued) British cars where parts quality can often be  abysmal or ****-poor, I've even, twice, been let down by modern made British motorsport engineering, very simple but expensive, components.

 

All being well your issue is now sorted for a very long time.

 

Vika is Chinese crap like most things from China.

 

 

Certainly lots of crap made stuff is made in China but a lot of that is because consumers in the likes of the UK and USA demand the lowest prices to pay for lots of stuff, and then often moan about it being crap.  The Chinese can do quality very easily, very high quality but then big Western brands put their names on the cheap made crap and sell at a low price but with very high margins or the very high quality stuff at massive margins.  Ratner wasn't lying. 😄

 

And don't mention products made in Erdington to me .  .  .  😡