At the moment ev's dont  interest me enough to want to buy one, for me range needs to improve plus the list price is stiil to high,   but i was thinking about this the other day,

given that most people nowadays lease/ pcp etc when buying a new car,  and most of these cars get handed back after 3 or 4  years etc

Batteries for ev's are expensive and degrade more if not looked after, but if you know your only gonna have the car for 2 or 3 years , would you care ?, 

most ev drivers want the longest range they can get out of the batteries,  so most of these cars will be  charged to 100 % all the time which is obviously  not ideal long term

but as the car gets handed back in 3 years or so's  time , it's someone elses problem  😂

Less risky.

Battery condition can be checked far easier than an engine in an ICE.

 

Most EV drivers are nor stupid and are not charging to 100% with ones they own, maybe not Rapid charging either.  Those like me with a car with a small battery and crap range might be. 

Those Business / Commercial drivers of lease cars, or Motability owned EV's might not be. 

 

'I do not care', just as i never did with my last TDI on a lease from Motability'.

Do not get landed with my EV when it goes to auction, but then it is probably staying with me beyond the 3 year lease unless the battery condition does become poor with my charging to 98%. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 25 November, 20223 yr by toot

Arm yourself with Leafspy or similar tool, plug it in and read the SoH value. Job done.

 

Just buy one with average miles, give or take. As long as it's being used most days, it wouldn't matter what percentage it has been charged to.

 

Many manufacturers are now providing useful battery certificates, Unlike Leaf battery check, the VW battery certificate contains EVERYTHING needed to judge battery condition:

 

If the price of used Electric Vehicles are dropping then good if you can get what you want for less than they were being advertised for or you had to pay just recently.

'If', being the important bit.

 

Cost, prices, what you pay is money. 

'Value' is what they are worth to you, what you can get in cash money maybe, or have to pay as far as i am concerned.

 

Trade in and 'Cost to change', finance and leasing is not so much about 'Value' it is about people making money if that is how they earn their living selling / trading in vehicles.

 

 

 

This thread shows there are indeed hidden risks buying badly designed EV's:

https://www.speakev.com/threads/leaf-40kwh-2-zero-high-mileage-dud.173915/

 

Takeaway is to test-drive with less than 50% charge to ensure car battery still behaves well at low state of charge (SoC). Fully charged, battery can easily delivery power. At low SoC, any unbalanced or weak cells will cause the car to cut power or have SoC reading jump around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not comfortable buying this way without test drive at low SoC. I don't believe there's any leeway to rejecting the car from an auction, once the hammer hits, it's yours. 

 

I know near the end he added we can use manufacturer warranty. But we all know marginal big ticket items are difficult to get warranty signed off, nevermind trying to get claims on new tech verified by traditional dealership. 

 

 

Actually do we know that big ticket items under warranty are an issue getting signed off?     Handy being in the trade like they are servicing cars, but that even really is not the issue.  They could get an independent expert report which the warranty provider really really wants.   If you distrust manufacturers warranties then that is the same if you buy new, or an approved used car in manufacturers warranty.    Leasing different obviously as not your car.  I know you buy yours though. 

Edited 11 September, 20232 yr by toot

In the case for Leaf, warranty is only triggered when BMS recorded health goes below certain value. There are stories Nissan isn't honouring warranty when there's individual cell failure. 

Eg. https://www.speakev.com/threads/nissan-leaf-30kwh-cell-failure-nissan-not-honoring-warranty.168576/

I am sure there's another case, can't find it at the moment. 

 

My Skoda Octy didn't get any good will gesture on well known water pump failure a few months out of warranty, despite full main dealer service history. Another time, in warranty, when I asked for software update to cure warm weather engine start up hesitancy, printing pages from this forum, dealer wouldn't lift a finger to help in any way. So my "trust" in main dealer is very low. 

 

 

£10.7k for a 36 kWh 2 years old car is excellent value. Well within warranty.

 

The report have a tick against battery health. I wonder what test is carried out to get this tick.  Is there any recourse against the report company if the battery turned out to be not okay?

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by wyx087
battery size updated

Sometime you need to put on your big boy or girl bloomers.

 

***So almost certainly an Ex Motability car returned @ 2 years and had to go to BCA.  They all have to.

The cars condition report is done at hand back & the pictures taken then and that is usually the pictures on the BCA site from the hand back.***

 

So often there are e_Up,s mentioned when the Mii electric is but not the Citigo iV.   There might only be 400 or so in the country but they are about.

Edited 12 September, 20232 yr by toot

In another words, take the risk and claim on warranty.

 

Looks like around £11.5k from dealers (Marshall, power lease). I personally will probably go this route.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Electric&include-delivery-option=on&make=SEAT&model=Mii&postcode=al2 1bx&sort=relevance&refresh=true

 

 

Who buys cars ?

 

Less than 10% of new cars are bought and the rest pcp, lease etc.

 

Takes the risk out of fluctuating values and if you get a nice cheap lease then happy days.

 

Nice to get a 5 year or more warranty too.

 

EVs due to continue getting cheaper in real terms as Lithium Iron Phosphate becomes more the norm chemistry and mass production drives down cost and leasing.

 

Problems in UK continue to be higher cost of RHD cars and high interest rates of course.

 

@lol-lolMillions buy cars and not new ones.  With cash money or money borrowed or used cars with finance / hp / tick / never never. 

 

That is how the car trade rolls.   Obviously traders and dealers / motor groups / dealerships buy used cars. 

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Who buys cars ?

 

Lots of people who prefer to own something rather than pay forever more for it, or maybe keep it for a long time, or maybe because the finances work out better for them.  Or as George says because they buy second hand.

 

Lots of reasons really.

We are in a world of people knowing the price of things and the value of nothing.

 

Car sales executives know how many come to them wanting to buy cars for themselves, not a company, not wanting a lease or finance.

 

So keen are the manufacturers and the sales people / dealerships to flog new cars that people an even sign up for the never never get the incentives and then pay off the finance and keep that little extras they got.

 

All because the cars are over priced in the first place and even interest free loans are over priced.

All about finance, keeping piling them high and getting new cars sold, used cars in and sold and it all keeps going.

 

Looks like the crash is coming because the New BEV,s were far too expensive and new ones cost less than nearly new.  

But the crash is always predicted. 

 

The finance mis-selling that happened might just be the death of some Dealership Groups. 

I would rather buy a four year old car that i can afford and own it than "use" a new car for four years and end up with nothing.

31 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

I would rather buy a four year old car that i can afford and own it than "use" a new car for four years and end up with nothing.

 

My fairly experience with 4/5 year old cars is one of high cost.  Car out of warranty, in my case it was a 1.4 diesel Fabia whose thermostat went south so, as it advised, when one goes that deep in to the engine one is recommended to change the water pump as well. £800 jut to get the car back to operating in the same mediocre way it was before the thermostat went.  Out of VAG/Skoda's crap 3 year warranty so costly fox and what is to say something else goes wrong next month.

 

Much prefer the peace of mind of car being under manufacturer's warranty, PCP deals can be got for less than £300 a month and then one can rest easy and as my cars are tools of my trade I do not think my clients would be wondering what is going on if one is turning up with a car of 4 years old and over.  Doing 20K a year in my main car and about 10K a year in my low to middle range distance to client or office EV I need ultra reliable and I just the out of the blue expense that out of warranty cars can see, blown turbo, faulty auto gearbox which can also be mega expensive.   No worries with a car on PCP with a 5 year warranty.

 

PCP also protects, like in the case of the Zoe, price/value falls are at the risk and liablity of the manufacturer/ PCP-lease company.   Or choose to pay the balloon payment if, like my Dacia Logan was, car was worth way more than the balloon payment. Winner winner chicken dinner.  

 

@lol-lol There you are again talking about turning up at customers in cars.  HMRC incentives with these company cars or business use.

A whole different thing from peoples cash money for a car for Private, Leisure & Commuting.  Using all their own hard earned. 

 

 

what age was that 1.4 TDI Fabia?    Skoda managed with the 'All new 3rd Generation Mk3 Fabia 1.4 TDI from 2014 to also bugger up the Water Pumps and then try and blame the coolant they used before having to actually do something proper.   There are still people 10 years on getting landed with those Lemons.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.     They never did learn did they?

Edited 17 February, 20242 yr by Rooted

I think the success of the pcp deals so far has been a buoyant used car market.

 

When that bubble bursts more people will fall victim of the car not being worth the GFV when trying to move on to their next deal because the only realistic option is to hand the car back and start again with a deposit to find.

 

PCPs and 0% finance deals have contributed to the inflated new car prices by taking power from the consumer.

1 minute ago, Rooted said:

@lol-lol  what age was that 1.4 TDI Fabia?    Skoda managed with the 'All new 3rd Generation Mk3 Fabia 1.4 TDI from 2014 to also bugger up the Water Pumps and then try and blame the coolant they used before having to actually do something proper.   There are still people 10 years on getting landed with those Lemons.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.     They never did learn did they?

 

Think it was 2016.  Great MPG, mark 3 Fabia lovely modern car in so many way but the engine, to do fixing on it was a big a nightmare as my V6 engine in Jaaaaag Type S.  How can a small engine be so difficult to do basic stuff on ?  I have had cars it would take me less than 15 minutes to change the thermostat and cost about £20.  How can it cost 40 times more and call that progress. 

 

10 minutes ago, Rooted said:

@lol-lol  what age was that 1.4 TDI Fabia?    Skoda managed with the 'All new 3rd Generation Mk3 Fabia 1.4 TDI from 2014 to also bugger up the Water Pumps and then try and blame the coolant they used before having to actually do something proper.   There are still people 10 years on getting landed with those Lemons.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.     They never did learn did they?

 

You and I both owned twin charge Fabias and one lived in constant fear with many owners seeing bills on £5k and more.

Great fun car but my God how can such a fragile machine ever reach release ?

 

Loved mine and it was reliable for me, did about 70K miles, could do well over 50 mpg but rip through standing quarter in 7s, top speed only could get about an indicated 130, unlike the Octavia VRS was still pulling strongly at indicated 150. 

 

Even Renault have dropped their 5 year warranty recently, well done for Kia/Hyundai sticking with the 7 year warranty, for me it is the 80k miles which I would do in about 3 years if it was my only car.  Thankfully Arkana and Zoe both have the 100k miles, 5 year warranty now defunct on new Renaults sadly.