I know little about EVs, but while listening to a report on charging issues in the UK, it occurred to me there are a lot of uninsured (and untaxed) vehicles on the road, not to mention stolen vehicles.

If chargers are able to identify exactly what vehicle they are charging, I assume they could decline to charge uninsured or stolen vehicles (VED doesn't apply to EVs at the moment, AFAIK).

Would that be possible?

 

Possibly but unlikely, how would you charge a car that had been SORN'd?

@EnterName

No they do not know the vehicle at Public Chargers.

 

Anything is possible, but in the UK the incompetents in the Government can not organise a p!ss up in a brewery, they certainly do not like anyone being able to be tracked incase it applies to them. 

If they could take away the Passport of anyone other than Football Hooligans or young girls that join terrorist groups they would.

 

Time they do clamp down on uninsured or no MOT or VED vehicles filling up at filling stations that should all have ANPR cameras. 

 

EV Chargers do not even know the identity of someone tapping a Credit Card or Debit Card or a Charge Place Scotland card.  It could be any ones. 

 

As to the DVLA and Database, that is crap, as to SIM cards in EV Chargers and reception, communication , that can be crap. 

9 minutes ago, toot said:

Time they do clamp down on uninsured or no MOT or VED vehicles filling up at filling stations that should all have ANPR cameras.

I am ashamed to admit this never occurred to me, and is an excellent idea.

They already have pretty good numberplate reading cameras at filling stations, so I don't see why they couldn't be linked to ANPR.

Brilliant!

20 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Possibly but unlikely, how would you charge a car that had been SORN'd?

To be honest Gizmo, I would almost certainly struggle to charge a perfectly legal EV, until I got my head around how it's done.

In reality (providing you have off road parking) charging an EV (especially overnight on a cheap tariff) is one of the major plus points in owning an EV. 

Edited 29 December, 20223 yr by Gizmo

The charging companies and EV manufacturers are working towards this to implement Plug & Charge ISO 15188 (and to a lesser extent AutoCharge non ISO standard) to allow cars to pay for charging by plugging in. This requires each car to identify itself uniquely and could be implemented on all chargers. This would identify cars being used untaxed or uninsured but will have loopholes eg granny chargers.

 

Once plug and charge is in place car fuel duty could easily be levied on electricity given.

Edited 29 December, 20223 yr by Luckypants

'Simply clever' would be that you put Credit on the vehicles system.  Credit to the 'Micro Chip'  Sim etc as you do with a Bank Card, Phone, Laptop etc.

Then the vehicle pays at the charger.

The DVLA can take the VED from the 'credit' on the system, or even charge for 'miles travelled' if somehow the vehicle is getting electricity from some source the vehicle can not identify.  ie, a granny charger plugged in where ever.  Where maybe someone else pays anyway

 

It can be hard enough getting a charger & a vehicle to shake hands, greet each other and say 'now we are the best of buddies lets get wired into powering you up. 

Lets see how long it takes until chargers not fit for purpose now are replaced with what needs to be reliable chargers with good communications. 

 

Cars / vehicles do not pay at present , people or businesses do. 

There are plenty systems where information on bank accounts, addresses, locations etc are going about for taxation reasons. 

Lets see Company ICE vehicles being tracked a bit better for fuel in and miles done and business miles, and maybe even the efficiency of the vehicles / mpg. 

 

The UK Government Agencies have til the 1st April 2025 to get the VED for EV's sorted out.    Then they can sort out those not paying it.

Edited 29 December, 20223 yr by toot

1 hour ago, toot said:

'Simply clever' would be that you put Credit on the vehicles system.  Credit to the 'Micro Chip'  Sim etc as you do with a Bank Card, Phone, Laptop etc.

Then the vehicle pays at the charger.

The DVLA can take the VED from the 'credit' on the system, or even charge for 'miles travelled' if somehow the vehicle is getting electricity from some source the vehicle can not identify.  ie, a granny charger plugged in where ever.  Where maybe someone else pays anyway

 

It can be hard enough getting a charger & a vehicle to shake hands, greet each other and say 'now we are the best of buddies lets get wired into powering you up. 

Lets see how long it takes until chargers not fit for purpose now are replaced with what needs to be reliable chargers with good communications. 

 

Cars / vehicles do not pay at present , people or businesses do. 

There are plenty systems where information on bank accounts, addresses, locations etc are going about for taxation reasons. 

Lets see Company ICE vehicles being tracked a bit better for fuel in and miles done and business miles, and maybe even the efficiency of the vehicles / mpg. 

 

The UK Government Agencies have til the 1st April 2025 to get the VED for EV's sorted out.    Then they can sort out those not paying it.

Running with this ball, I wonder if lease companies will include charging credit as part of the leasing deal?

Being able to rock up to any charger and just charge your car without incurring cost, knowing that it's covered by your lease would be quite appealing to some, I imagine.

Not sure how it might work, maybe an agreed credit of n KW/h per month charging, I dunno. I don't know which chargers are or aren't compatible with which EVs.

I didn't know there were so many charge networks until I looked into it a bit. I really am very uninformed on living with an EV, but I'm slowly learning.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/revealed-uks-top-ranking-electric-vehicle-charging-networks/

 

Cars on Subscription for 1 month at a time come including the cost of charging, insurance etc.

No idea how it is done.

 

I have my credit with PodPoint that i can easily just add to with my saved card details, same with my BP account.

Thankfully PodPoint is simple and quick, BP never seems to work.

 

I would like if i did not need my phone with me and i could just plug in at PodPoint and it knows the car because i registered the VIN. 

Good if someone else is driving my car they can charge without a phone, my phones, my cards or even their card.

 

 

Edited 29 December, 20223 yr by toot

And, just to add to the confusion:

 

"Electric car charge points dropped from £40m Preston complex because they 'aren't safe'"

 

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/electric-car-charge-points-dropped-25863523

1 hour ago, MikeTheThinker said:

And, just to add to the confusion:

 

"Electric car charge points dropped from £40m Preston complex because they 'aren't safe'"

 

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/electric-car-charge-points-dropped-25863523

AIUI all new build homes and commercial properties HAVE to have EV chargers. 

13 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

AIUI all new build homes and commercial properties HAVE to have EV chargers. 

Cites of relevant Acts of Parliament needed.

The Westminster / UK Government of which there have been 3 (3 Prime Ministers) this past year had proposals for England and EV chargers. 

Watered down right from them first flying the kite on this.  Boris bumping his gums from November 2021 so over a year ago.

 

November 2021

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-to-announce-electric-vehicle-revolution

So news regarding England.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-59369715

 

January 2022

http://baker-law.co.uk/site/blog/baker-law-legal-blog/new-build-homes-to-have-electric-vehicle-chargers-from-2022

 

June 2022

http://pagerpower.com/news/new-law-to-require-new-builds-to-include-electric-car-charging-points

(typo error in article on when first made public, 2021 not 2022)

 

June 2022

http://homebuilding.co.uk/news/electric-car-charging-points-law

 

September 2022

http://yourparkingspace.co.uk/insights/new-home-ev-charger-rules-explained

 

November 2022

http://myerson.co.uk/news-insights-and-events/electric-vehicle-charging-points-new-building-regulation-requirements

 

 

Edited 31 December, 20223 yr by toot

Scottish Government to regulate.  Eventually obviously..  Expect those and such as those to have lots of meetings, but do not expect them to travel using an EV.

There will be EV's in the pictures taken at the photo opportunities though. 

August 2022.

https://transport.gov.scot/news/electric-vehicle-charge-points-for-new-buildings

 

July 2021

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-building-regulations-proposed-changes-energy-standards-associated-topics/pages/7

 

2018  4 years ago, nearly 5 now.

'Springfield Properties. '  

 A Friend to the Scottish Government.  Great for Ministers visiting and having pictures taken at building sites of which they have many around Scotland.

Hurry up and slow down getting in the cables, and actual chargers for buyers that want them installed...

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/springfield-properties-say-all-of-their-new-build-homes-will-have-cabling-for-electric-car-charging

https://www.businessgreen.com/news/3025510/springfield-properties-promises-ev-charging-as-standard

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-42832175

 

 

 

....................................................................................................

Alan Douglas does well making appearances as Anti EV.  Give the man an EV for free. 

He has his finger on the pulse of the Auto Industry.  I hope he is not a consultant. He has seen the future, or maybe not!

Love it, Mazda, who then produced a really too heavy EV with a small battery. 

http://mazdausa.com/vehicles/2022-mx-30

http://autoexpress.co.uk/mazda/355283/mazda-gears-launch-three-new-electric-cars-2025

http://mazda.co.uk/why-mazda/mazda-m-hybrid

 

 

 

Legend or Bellend?

Well known for walking and cycling and using public transport, well driving buses.

http://scotcars.co.uk/home

http://scotcars.co.uk/news/2018/may/scots-company-feeds-free-power-to-evs

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 December, 20223 yr by toot

On 30/12/2022 at 22:29, MikeTheThinker said:

And, just to add to the confusion:

 

"Electric car charge points dropped from £40m Preston complex because they 'aren't safe'"

 

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/electric-car-charge-points-dropped-25863523

This is interesting. I wonder why having indoor charging points is unsafe, presumably some sort of fire risk?

On 30/12/2022 at 22:29, MikeTheThinker said:

And, just to add to the confusion:

 

"Electric car charge points dropped from £40m Preston complex because they 'aren't safe'"

 

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/electric-car-charge-points-dropped-25863523

I call BS. There are thousands of chargepoints installed indoors in the UK. I personally can think of three or four places where they are installed in indoor car parks. Indoor chargepoints in public car parks are commonplace in Europe.

 

This is an attempt by the developer to avoid having to install these chargepoints. I hope the planning condition is enforced. 

On 31/12/2022 at 05:07, toot said:

Alan Douglas does well making appearances as Anti EV.  Give the man an EV for free. 

He has his finger on the pulse of the Auto Industry.  I hope he is not a consultant. He has seen the future, or maybe not!

In his "Scotland Tonight" video, Alan Douglas's critique of EVs and wind turbines referenced their production of CO2 as a negative factor in their production and use. There may be a whole load of reasons why EVs in the UK may be the way forward for a nicer world to live in, and there may be reasons why UK EV use will not give us the bright future we seek. However I'm not convinced that obsessing about the UK's production of CO2 is useful, I think people saying "Ha! EVs produce CO2 too, they're not green!" is a bit of a red herring.

 

The amount of CO2 the UK produces is trifling on a global scale. (https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions)

Look at the data: Let's just say the UK manages to get to "Net Zero". Then what?

Have we saved the world from the dreaded CO2? Will China realise the error of its ways and massively reduce CO2 output?

I doubt it. Still, at least it looks like we're doing our bit for the environment. But at quite a cost.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

I call BS. There are thousands of chargepoints installed indoors in the UK. I personally can think of three or four places where they are installed in indoor car parks. Indoor chargepoints in public car parks are commonplace in Europe.

 

This is an attempt by the developer to avoid having to install these chargepoints. I hope the planning condition is enforced. 

I don't know if it's BS or not, but the article is very much a "Computer says no!" explanation, rather than a sensible explanation as to why the indoor chargers in that building would pose a safety risk.

Dundee Council has multi-storey car park charging on lower levels and on rooftop.  Just as so many other places have globally.   Time to get the Levelling up Minister on the case.    Lower level, middle or upper.  The UK government are so out of their depth and clueless  regarding the changes in 2030.     The proposals for very large charging hubs in Edinburgh are getting pushed forward on the Green Credentials.  

Edited 2 January, 20233 yr by toot

5 minutes ago, toot said:

Dundee Council has multi-storey car park charging on lower levels and on rooftop.  Just as so many other places have globally.   Time to get the Levelling up Minister on the case.    Lower level, middle or upper.  The UK government are so out of their depth and clueless  regarding the changes in 2030.     

This is what happens when you write cheques you can't afford. It's a problem of their own making, I have no sympathy for them.

Funnily the extra oil and especially gas that was exported in the past 2 years came in the main from Scottish waters.   A country with under 6 million is certainly not lacking resources or a means of paying into the treasury.   Sad really when there are those that will not see.  Best eat their carrots for when the lights go out.   The French have seemingly had enough and do not want to pay taxes on the big profits they make generating electricity in the UK. 

An electric charge point needs to make a handshake with the car before enabling charging.

 

This is done using a J1772 module. This module doesnt have to transmit any vehicle specific data and in fact i dont believe chargers are capable of that kind of transmission either *yet*

 

 

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=107

The near future is never far off.  Things will come to those eventually. 

 

First they need reliable chargers, rapid maintenance, and reliable communications, then secure devices. 

 So that is many years off, maybe never ever.

 

Getting Mobile Phone Reception covering all of the UK would be an advance, as would digital radio reception. 

 

Last week with stuff on the telly about Bitcoin and finance there were many in business and industry discussing 'Blockchain' and how and where it can and will be used.

EV charging, subscription etc being something mentioned by one of the major companies involved in the industry. 

 

Being able to tap a card to pay at all public chargers and ensure you get a charge into the vehicle will be a good starter.

The same at Parking meters would be good.

 

http://eepower.com/news/using-blockchain-to-drive-electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure/#

 

 

http://smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/elecric-vehicles/energy-web-develops-blockchain-based-renewable-energy-ev-charging-app

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 January, 20233 yr by toot

On 30/12/2022 at 23:35, Gizmo said:

AIUI all new build homes and commercial properties HAVE to have EV chargers. 

I live on an estate of new builds and there is only one house that has an EV charge point - which the owners fitted after moving in because they have an EV.

 

So it is most definitely NOT compulsory for new build homes to have EV chargers.