So, What Would YOU Do, With This Heap?

[Throw_Rope]

Firstly, my apologies for the long post.

 

My car is a Skoda Fabia III 1.0 TSI 110 16V DSG7 110 cv. It was spawned from Skoda Hell around January 2018.

 

I live in eastern Spain, and in Spain car dealerships are typically multi-marque which I think reduces their marque knowledge a great deal. My local dealership handles Skoda, SEAT, VW, Audi. Possibly others.

 

The car is okay generally, but the computer is crazy and ‘apparently’ cannot be fixed. My feeling is that the supplying Skoda dealership is not competent in diagnosis and repair.

 

I call the computer thing Hal 9000 as it has a life of its own and is clearly not interested in what I want. (I just want to go A to B, like in the old days. Come back Kangoo, all is forgiven!)

 

If anybody here can assist with diagnosing what the problem is, I’ll be eternally grateful. Hal 9000 is ruining what should be a good car. Apart from the computer with its stupid warnings, the car is fine. Breakdowns have cost me a lot. Hal didn’t think to warn me at all about the breakdown issues. He just invents fake problems and pings me with them.

 

START-STOP SYSTEM
The Start-Stop system has always been a problem from new, and it currently functions intermittently. No clues as to when it will actually work. I’m not over interested in this feature anyway.

 

FRONT ASSIST & CRUISE CONTROL
Cruise Control has never worked from new. I’m not very interested in this feature anyway.

 

Front Assist has gone missing from the computer menu. No idea when it went of course. I didn’t know this even existed until someone carved in front of me and the car braked suddenly for me.

The possible cause of this going missing might be a new ACC Adaptive Cruise Control sensor, which was fitted at the roadside in emergency conditions, due to the brakes operating suddenly, intermittently, for no reason at all. (loadsamoney!) The incident was very dangerous for my nerves AND the following traffic.

 

From Googling this problem, I think the new ACC sensor needs calibrating or setting up? I still have the old unit, which is the original sensor from new.

 

12v BATTERY
The battery (12v Start-Stop type) had to be replaced, again, at the roadside in emergency conditions. It just died one dark winter night on the motorway. (again, loadsamoney!) The replacement battery (the current battery) is a Tudor EFB TL600 60 with no problems apparent.

 

I have triple checked that it IS a Start-Stop battery, but my Skoda garage say it is NOT, and they want to replace it with a new one at my expense. (will of course be loadsamoney!)

GENERAL WARNING & WARNINGS WHILE DRIVING:
Continuous Tailgate Open warning. (Tailgate Not Open!) It is dangerous to use the courtesy lights because of this error. (the lights can come on randomly while travelling at night)

 

The Low Tyre Pressure warning is useless, it allows pressure drops of 8psi with no alarm whatsoever. I don’t care about that as I’m used to looking after my car in all respects.

 

While driving Hal 9000 pings me with these messages:

“Activate start-stop system”  -  Covered above.

“Vehicle power consumption is high”  -  No idea what this is. Don’t care.

The most common PING pain, with a VERY quick message. (VERY distracting)
ATTENTION: WORKSHOP WARNING. ALWAYS LEAVE VEHICLE IN POSITION ‘P’.
Sometimes five times or more in a two-mile journey.

THE SUPPLYING SKODA DEALERSHIP
The service department have NEVER been interested in fixing any problems, in warranty OR out of warranty. For example they’ve charged me three times for ‘looking at’ the ACC Sensor. I suspect that ‘looking at it’ is exactly what they do, and they have no idea how to diagnose, set it up, or repair it.

 

They’ve outright refused to refund on the breakdown items, which have cost me a lot of money, danger and inconvenience.

 

They don’t agree that the car is dangerous. They just say bring it in and ‘we’ll look at it’. Chargeable of course…

MY WORRIES & FEELINGS
My needs are simple needs. I just want a car to get me from A to B reliably. Being retired, I don’t do a high mileage. I don’t want all this computer technology that is being forced on us by the garage trade. It appears that they can’t diagnose or maintain it anyway.

 

So this is the saga of a four year old, VERY low mileage car. I of course would love to see this car gone. It is the worst car I’ve ever owned, and I can tell you that I’ve had some pretty rubbish cars in my 51 years of driving.

 

I love the car itself, but Hal 9000 makes using it soul-destroying and dangerous.

 

To get rid of it, trade-in value is going to be a problem with the blatant problems, and anyway I’m not loaded and I want to keep it if it can be fixed. Selling privately is out of the question as I would not inflict this horror on anyone.

 

Another concern of mine is getting used to ignoring the ping messages. Half the time the message disappears in a split second so I can’t read it. Otherwise it’s irrelevant/fake. I worry about the ‘Cry Wolf’ aspect of driving it, ie: one day the message will actually be genuine, I’ll swear at it as usual, and then it blows up.

 

Before you ask, I’ve emailed Skoda Spain many times with all the details, pleading for a fix. Complete waste of time.

I’ve also emailed Skoda Czechia many times with all the details, also a complete waste of time. It seems they’ve got the money for the car and that’s that. They’ve invited me to take the car in again and they’ll charge me again to ‘look at it’. I’m only willing now to pay to have the problem fixed, but they seem completely incapable of that.

 

As I’ve already said, if anybody here can assist with diagnosing what the real problem is, I’ll be eternally grateful.
 

[AGFalco]

3 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

12v BATTERY

Was this new battery coded when it was fitted?

Have you smart charged the battery?

 

4 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

START-STOP SYSTEM

On the way to work in the morning after 10 miles I can stop at a set of traffic lights, the stop start normally works.

On my way home in the evening after 12 miles my stop start almost never works. 😕

There are many things that can affect as to whether the stop start will work.

If I have the AC on and turn the fan speed up to 3 the engine will re start if it had stopped.

 

7 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

Low Tyre Pressure

The TPMS does NOT measure your tyre pressure.

 

Read this post:-

12 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

ALWAYS LEAVE VEHICLE IN POSITION ‘P’.

 

13 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

Front Assist

Can be turned off.

 

14 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

new ACC sensor needs calibrating

Yes.

 

14 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

died one dark winter night on the motorway

Once the car has been started it is rare to have the battery fail.

Was the alternator tested at the time?

 

19 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

“Vehicle power consumption is high”

Low Voltage?

 

20 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

VERY low mileage car

Suffer from low voltage battery.

 

22 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

THE SUPPLYING SKODA DEALERSHIP

Go to another one.

 

17 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

Tudor EFB TL600 60

Looks like the correct battery to me.

 

17 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

Continuous Tailgate Open warning

Is the boot light on when this warning comes on?

You need to look in the boot without opening any door or the boot.

 

I would get a Smart Battery charger and charge the battery first. 🙂

 

HTH

 

Thanks. AG Falco

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

You seem to dislike the VW computer programs even more than me, that's going some.

 

I'm not a VW fan or believed in German engineer quality on cars being that great this century. 

 

My stock answer to just about anything on the car is to keep the battery in a good state of charge because if it gets too low even if the car starts and the lights seem bright enough you can still get lots of unexpected issues.  Some issues with warning lights and messages but some issues perhaps before these warnings.  This because the VW computers and their programs don't like low battery charge.  You are not just dealing with HAL900 but a group of them.

 

 

Skoda, SEAT, VW, Audi, are all VW/VAG with lots of the same sort of stuff and parts so lots of similarities to them so the garage should have some idea of what they're doing.

 

Normally it's the driver that lets the battery get in a state of low charge with use, abuse, neglect and mistake(s) - but it can be the car's charging system or eclectics or computer programs perhaps.

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

“Vehicle power consumption is high”  -  No idea what this is. Don’t care.

Hopefully now you see that is a mistake.   

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

VERY low mileage car

This will probably be part of your "battery" problem.

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

The Low Tyre Pressure warning is useless, it allows pressure drops of 8psi with no alarm whatsoever. I don’t care about that as I’m used to looking after my car in all respects.

Yeap the computer program parameter is too wide so don't rely on it and carry on looking after the car.

 

Part of looking after the car is to read and refer to the Owner's Manual, if you do so you will know more about your car than many long term owners - and sorry to say - but - I am going to anyway prevented many of the issues you've had, you probably know RtFM.

 

Get an appropriate battery charger and FULLY recharge the battery ASAP as this could end a lot of your issues - until you let the battery run down too low again which you wont of course now you know.  😉

 

Charge the battery FULLY an appropriate battery charger, check the Tudor EFB TL600 has been 'coded' in as a new battery to the car's computer program correctly.

 

And RtFM. 😊 - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

Just in case you could check for any Recalls as it not all your fault (that 'P' position thing wouldn't be you). -https://www.skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions  (Edited as I put same link twice, now corrected)

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Edited 28 January, 2023 by nta16
ETA: Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

[Throw_Rope]

@nta16 and @AGFalco -  Thank you both for taking significant time in responding on this.

 

 My apologies for the delay in coming back to you.

 

Firstly, on:

there’s a bit more about me for info. I’ve been driving since 1970, so I’ve got through many cars/vans/trucks and never had such a horror as this Skoda. I don’t think of it as a car, more like punishment for my sins.

 

I will try and answer/deal with the points and questions you’ve made:

 

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

 

BATTERY

• Keep the battery in a good state of charge because if it gets too low even if the car starts and the lights seem bright enough you can still get lots of unexpected issues. This because the VW computers and their programs don't like low battery charge.
• Normally it's the driver that lets the battery get in a state of low charge with use, abuse, neglect and mistake.
• VERY low mileage car - This will probably be part of your "battery" problem.
• Charge the battery FULLY an appropriate battery charger, check the Tudor EFB TL600 has been 'coded' in as a new battery to the car's computer program correctly.

I personally cannot check anything to do with coding.

 

I have a charger that varies the charge down as it charges (meter shows this). Also I can select 2amp or 6amp charge rate. I have a voltage/temperature unit as per the attached pic. Stationary (no loads) = 12.2v, engine running = 14.9v, the voltage immediately on starting briefly shows 11.9v, but only fleetingly.

 

Once the car has been started it is rare to have the battery fail.
Nice to know, but it did fail a long way from home. No way was I going to head back home in the dark on the motorway with everything dimming.

 

Was the alternator tested at the time?
I don’t know. Breakdown workshop at night. The mechanic was caring and appeared knowledgeable.

The dealership should surely be able to detect poor charging? (if they can be bothered)

 

MANUAL
Part of looking after the car is to read and refer to the Owner's Manual, if you do so you will know more about your car than many long term owners - and sorry to say prevented many of the issues you've had.

I bought the English version manual (car is Spanish) and have read all the appropriate parts. Not the best manual I’ve seen to be fair. A lot of jargon. I had to give up on cruise control - it never worked. Strangely, it also doesn’t mention having to charge the battery regularly to keep the car happy.

 

RECALLS
Just in case you could check for any Recalls as it not all your fault (that 'P' position thing wouldn't be you).  https://www.skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

 

Checked a while ago, and yesterday. No recalls apply.

 

START-STOP SYSTEM
There are many things that can affect as to whether the stop start will work.

Fascinating. Don’t care currently as I disable it immediately on starting to save any ‘hits’ on the battery. ) I already suspected battery charge might be an issue, however it’s normally driven with virtually no electrical load in the daytime. (unlike UK with blower, lights, heated screen, wipers etc in winter)

 

120 on the motorway = 2,600revs, which should be more than adequate to charge. Of course the DSG7 box forces low revs asap in normal use. I hold gears at times to force decent revs as appropriate.

 

The manual states that it’ll only start-stop when the oil is up to temp. That’s definitely not true. It seems quite the opposite at times.

 

ACC SENSOR
…new ACC sensor needs calibrating. Yes.
Requested of dealership. Possibly done, possibly not. Same for battery, as they fitted neither. Both fitted in roadside breakdown circumstances…

 

FRONT ASSIST
Can be turned off.
I know. It’s a pity the whole Hal9000 can’t be turned off. It is currently not on the menu to turn on OR off though. I don’t care as long as it stops stabbing the brakes on intermittently. Dangerous to me and all around me. That was why the new ACC Sensor was fitted on a breakdown.

 

TYRES
The TPMS does NOT measure your tyre pressure.
Well I dunno… When selected on the dash there’s a pretty picture showing a ghost car and all tyres, which will flag up a problem if one tyre is lacking. I suspect the tyres only lose pressure because of the poor quality wi-fi valves.

 

I always reset the pressures as [OK] when all done, c. every six weeks. This car has the worst pressure loss for me since the 1980s. All four tyres are equally poor. There’s no wheel damage. Dealership shrugged…

 

THE SUPPLYING SKODA DEALERSHIP
Go to another one.
Helpful. They are few and far between here, not like the UK. I suspect they might not be competent either. Who knows? One 130 Km north of here, one 120 Km south of here. So unknown competence and distance complicates matters for drop off/collect.

 

CONTINUOUS TAILGATE OPEN WARNING
Is the boot light on when this warning comes on? You need to look in the boot without opening any door or the boot.
This fault is permanent now. (used to be intermittent) The boot light IS on, and all courtesy lights would be on all of the time driving. I have to turn off the interior ones, as night driving would be dangerous. I’ve checked on ‘locking and leaving’ that ALL lights go out after a couple of minutes.

 

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

 

Overall, I thought the dealership was waiting for the warranty to expire, to then charge me a lot for a ‘proper’ repair. They’ve charged (more than once) for what shows as a ‘Revision’, which I assume is a computer update. No work has EVER been carried out to fix the increasingly long list of faults. That’s what makes me think they have no idea what they’re doing. You’d think they’d want money for work…

 

As I’ve already said in my OP, I’m (begrudgingly) willing to pay for a repair, but to date they’ve had it three times for 3 to 4 hours and each time done around 1 hour’s work (?) on it. The Revision charge varies, last occasion €80. My guess is that that is extortionate for clicking on a screen with an [Update] button which ultimately achieves nothing anyway.

To date they’ve never fixed ANY faults it’s been in for, and that’s since new. When I pick it up they say “come back if it does it again”. Bonkers…

 

I think I will try and find an independent workshop with a VCDS and a knowledgeable user. I don’t know if they will know about the appropriate coding for a Skoda though. And possibly also calibrating/coding the ACC Sensor???

 

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

 

I can’t recall ever having a car that has let me down and irritated me as much as this one. It’s also the most expensive car I’ve ever bought. Lesson learned I suppose…

 

On one of the ‘leave vehicle in position P’ supplied links above, I notice that @Chiselwizard has commented that he thought he was buying a quality car ‘to last him’. I feel I’ve been duped like that as well. A €22,000 car that is needy and throws hissy fits? What the hell has happened to this world?

[AGFalco]

30 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

I have a charger that varies the charge down as it charges

Is it a smart charger suitable for a stop/start battery?

Do you connect the charger to both battery terminals?

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

Stationary (no loads) = 12.2v

This is low.

 

33 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

however it’s normally driven with virtually no electrical load in the daytime

The Alternator does NOT charge the battery all the time by design. If the electrical load is low it will get turned off. 

You might be able to notice this with your Temperature/Voltage unit.

 

39 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

120 on the motorway = 2,600revs, which should be more than adequate to charge.

The Alternator does NOT charge the battery all the time by design. If the electrical load is low it will get turned off. 

This is when the alternator is most likely NOT to be charging your battery.

 

48 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

The manual states that it’ll only start-stop when the oil is up to temp. That’s definitely not true

Correct.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

wi-fi valves.

I don't think you have this TPMS system. You have the indirect type that use the ABS/Speed sensors. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Throw_Rope said:

This car has the worst pressure loss for me since the 1980s. All four tyres are equally poor

How much do they go down by?

What age, mileage & make tyres are they?

 

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

The boot light IS on

Disconnect the bulb.

Faulty switch?

 

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

Strangely, it also doesn’t mention having to charge the battery regularly to keep the car happy.

As in my manual page158-9 :-

 

■ If the vehicle is frequently used for making short trips, low mileage, the vehicle battery will not have time to charge up sufficiently and may discharge.

 

Winter time The vehicle battery only has some of its starting power at low temperatures. A discharged vehicle battery may freeze at temperatures just below 0 °C.

We therefore recommend that you have the battery checked and, if necessary, recharged by a specialist garage before the start of the winter.

 

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

I think I will try and find an independent workshop with a VCDS and a knowledgeable user.

Good plan.
 

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

Thank you both for taking significant time in responding on this.

 

 My apologies for the delay in coming back to you.

No problem. 😁

 

 

 My Skoda garage is only 80KM away. 😕

 

Thanks. AG Falco

 

 

1 hour ago, Throw_Rope said:

What the hell has happened to this world?

It has become too complicated. 😕

[John2022]

On the subject of battery charging I extracted this from the web:

 

'General charging recommendations for EFB leisure batteries are 14.4V ± 0.2V on bulk/fast charge, and 13.6V ± 0.2V on float/standby charge, both quoted at 25°C. Current input should be limited to label capacity for general recharging.' 

source: motorhomefun.co.uk forum. (Briskoda won't let me put the full web address on here).

 

So it suggests that the car charger should be putting some 14 volts on the battery (which it is) and if you are float charging it at home, from a standard lead acid battery charger, it should be producing 13.6V at the battery. If float charging a suspect battery I would leave the float charger on for a couple of days. For example I decided to float charge my nearly new Scala battery because the car had been sitting outside at something like -5C for a week without being used.  I had no doubt that the car would start but it was a new toy! It took about 12 hours for the charging current to fall to 0.1Amp (even though the battery charger showed full charge within one hour) and another 12 hours to get to 0.05 Amp at which point I stopped as the battery voltage was up to 13.6 with the charger off.

 

It might be worthwhile doing a similar exercise on your battery to see if it clears some of the computer rubbish.    

[nta16]

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

On 02/02/2023 at 19:19, Throw_Rope said:

so I’ve got through many cars/vans/trucks and never had such a horror as this Skoda. I don’t think of it as a car, more like punishment for my sins.

I think I've probably got you beat on this game of trumps as until last August the previous 30+ years I was using BL 60s/70s cars as dailies whilst also having new and s/h English very low volume made cars and putting up with the UK motor trade so whilst I have been very  disappointed by the quality of some of the parts on the car I  can't think that generally they're that bad, certainly not as good as as they could or should be but not disastrous.

 

On 02/02/2023 at 19:19, Throw_Rope said:

I bought the English version manual (car is Spanish) and have read all the appropriate parts. Not the best manual I’ve seen to be fair.

I agree the manual isn't always well written and misses a lot of information I'd expect to see but VW have their own strange ways like with their oil specs and not weights, not listing fuse amperages.  You might already know you can download a free pdf copy from here. - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

On 02/02/2023 at 19:19, Throw_Rope said:

Stationary (no loads) = 12.2v

Are you sure there where no loads, computers and other stuff, if so that's around only around 50%-60% charge.  I've no idea how accurate those plug-in things are and whether they help much, didn't help my mate when he left his heated front screen on and it drained the battery just as he going into France.

 

With the tyres going down, are the wheels and tyres the original factory issue, tyres sealed to rims, valves not leaking or cracked - you know all the usual stuff, are you bouncing along the kerbs to guide yourself home, playing smack-a-mole with all the potholes.

 

You know how important the battery has been on cars but now they're even more important, more so on a 2018 than a 2015 and even more so on a 2022 than a 2018.  The German marques including VW have very complex, invasive, intertwined computer programs, they rely on the battery not being too low.

 

So sort your battery charge and you will lose many of the problems you have.  As you probably well remember the heat effects batteries but was shown up more in the UK when the weather got cold in winter but the effects were from the summer heat as with last summer here 40.2c here.

 

If you don't like the start/stop, if it's possible on a 2018, why not just disconnect it from the battery negative connection. -

 

As for the the Front Assist is that you have already turned it of, sorry but you'll just have to RtM.  ETA: sorry I forgot the sensor wasn't working.

 

Get the battery FULLY recharged with an appropriate charger better I feel off the car and a 2-amp charge for as long as required to get to proper full, possibly very many hours, then back on the car to cycle it's use as it's designed for and if the car is going to sit up for a long time either disconnect the battery from the car or use an appropriate maintainer mode or charger.

 

Get the battery properly FULLY recharged and see how you go from there, refer to the Owner's Manual for charging and reset requirements if you disconnect the battery.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

 

Edited 4 February, 2023 by nta16
ETA:

[AGFalco]

On 02/02/2023 at 19:19, Throw_Rope said:

however it’s normally driven with virtually no electrical load in the daytime

You have a Micro Hybrid car.

 

For more details look here:-

 

https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/micro-hybrid-hybrid-vehicles-explained/

Especially these sections.  Micro Hybrid 2, Regenerative braking & Battery care and Charging.

 

Thank, AG Falco

[BigEjit]

Low mileage vehicle = primary reason for the battery discharging and becoming ruined.

Stop Start not working frequently = an indicator of a ruined battery

Power consumption high = electrical system compensating for ruined battery

Random electrical notifications = linked to ruined batteries

 

I guess your battery is ruined. EFB is a stop/start battery but an AGM would be better for your driving duty cycle as it will take more discharge/recharge abuse. If the car isn't used much, this will also need replacing in the future as its not an infinite power source and needs a frequent long feed of electrical energy to keep it charged and alive.

[Fab1493]

@Throw_Rope first of all I'm gutted that you're having such an awful experience, honestly there is nothing more frustrating than trying to find what is wrong with the car and having the dealer not help! 
Unfortunately I'm not an expert so I can't give you much help, however I do have a LOT of experience around cars - I worked in the motor trade previously and I've driven well in excess of 1,000 cars so I've definitely experienced cars with some weird behaviours. From your initial post the first thing that comes to mind is the battery is not happy for one reason or another, either not charging properly (regular short trips? alternator not fully working?) or perhaps one of the battery connections isn't happy somewhere in the car (hopefully this isn't the case as it makes things much more complicated!) - If you can, try to get your hands on an OBDeleven, I have one for the many VAG cars I've had over the years and really helps when trying to figure out what's wrong, it's basically a little diagnostics computer you plug into the OBD port (under the steering wheel on the right hand side in UK cars, but not sure where it would be in LHD cars) and then connects to your mobile phone/tablet device through Bluetooth and you can scan the whole system and it'll flag any currently active issues which may help in tracking down the root cause of the problem. I would still think the issue is battery related, one thing I've learned is modern cars are incredibly sensitive to low battery, it affects all the computers around the car in all sorts of wonderful and ridiculous ways.
Best of luck!