Standard, EFB. AGM, Start Stop, regardless of size, sealed for life.

 

Scenarios, using a dumb 12v battery charger and the vehicle concerned has modern eletronics, ECU and so on.

 

1 ) A dead flat battery, is it safe to charge battery while still in the car connected?

 

2) A battery that has discharged to a point  it won't start the car but not completly flat,  is it safe to charge battery while still in the car connected?

 

3) If battery needs to be removed, are you better off fast charging  it for a few hours and then trickle/slow charge for 24-48 hours? If you have an option to charge at 4 amps or 8 amps, which opption?

 

( obviously there maybe issues removing a battery, retention of codes and so on. )

 

 

I believe that if you have an AGM battery you need to use an AGM compatible charger, not just an ordinary 12V 'dumb' charger. This is because AGM should be charged using pulse technology instead of constant voltage. An AGM compatible charger will be fine to use on 'dumb' 12V batteries. 

 

There are no issues removing a battery; you'll just get some warning lights pop up on reconnection but these will go away after driving a couple of hundred yards.

Also remember to use the dedicated earth point on the bulkhead to connect the -ve lead from the charger and not the -ve terminal of the battery.

3 minutes ago, Kenny R said:

Also remember to use the dedicated earth point on the bulkhead to connect the -ve lead from the charger and not the -ve terminal of the battery.

 

Not heard that one before - what's the reasoning?

14 minutes ago, muppix said:

 

Not heard that one before - what's the reasoning?

I believe it is so that the battery monitoring system is kept updated with charge from external source.  

@cado 

1 - Yes, but I would not recommend 'Dumb' charger - if no other option, monitor battery carefully and do not leave charging unattended. 

2- Yes

3- Better to avoid any fast charging, suggest maximum external charge rate should not exceed 1/10th of battery Amp-Hour rating. 

Note that EFB and AGM batteries require a slightly higher charging voltage cut-off point than standard SLA batteries - 'Dumb' charger will not be able to do this.

 

 

Edited 10 February, 20233 yr by Warrior193
added note.

4 hours ago, Kenny R said:

Also remember to use the dedicated earth point on the bulkhead to connect the -ve lead from the charger and not the -ve terminal of the battery.

 

3 hours ago, muppix said:

 

Not heard that one before - what's the reasoning?

From the manual.
On vehicles with the START / STOP system or additional heating (auxiliary heating), do not connect the pole
terminal of the charger directly to the negative terminal of the vehicle battery but only to the engine earth.

10 hours ago, muppix said:

I believe that if you have an AGM battery you need to use an AGM compatible charger, not just an ordinary 12V 'dumb' charger. This is because AGM should be charged using pulse technology instead of constant voltage. An AGM compatible charger will be fine to use on 'dumb' 12V batteries. 

 

There are no issues removing a battery; you'll just get some warning lights pop up on reconnection but these will go away after driving a couple of hundred yards.

Thanks muppix, didn't know that about AGM batteries and charging them.

 

How about EFB batteries can a dumb charger be used prior to using a trickle charger?

9 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

@cado 

1 - Yes, but I would not recommend 'Dumb' charger - if no other option, monitor battery carefully and do not leave charging unattended. 

2- Yes

3- Better to avoid any fast charging, suggest maximum external charge rate should not exceed 1/10th of battery Amp-Hour rating. 

Note that EFB and AGM batteries require a slightly higher charging voltage cut-off point than standard SLA batteries - 'Dumb' charger will not be able to do this.

 

 

Thanks Warrior.

 

This is my charger--dumb battery charger, it's about 8 years old now, would it be ok to use it to charge an EFB battery if I had to?

6 hours ago, Urrell said:

 

From the manual.
On vehicles with the START / STOP system or additional heating (auxiliary heating), do not connect the pole
terminal of the charger directly to the negative terminal of the vehicle battery but only to the engine earth.

I vaguely remember my oldest brother once starting a car bumper to bumper.

Using a dumb charger is fine as long as you don't leave it on the battery for a long period of time, a more modern smart battery charger is a better option.

 

It doesn't even have to be AGM or EFB compatible it just won't charge the battery fully as the fully charged voltages are higher on EFB and AGM than a normal lead acid battery.

 

It is also pretty pointless charging the battery up to 100% anyway as the first thing the car will do is discharge the battery down to 80% to make room for energy recovered by the alternator while braking and when under engine braking (diesels from 2015 ish not sure about petrol models)

13 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

Using a dumb charger is fine as long as you don't leave it on the battery for a long period of time, a more modern smart battery charger is a better option.

 

It doesn't even have to be AGM or EFB compatible it just won't charge the battery fully as the fully charged voltages are higher on EFB and AGM than a normal lead acid battery.

 

It is also pretty pointless charging the battery up to 100% anyway as the first thing the car will do is discharge the battery down to 80% to make room for energy recovered by the alternator while braking and when under engine braking (diesels from 2015 ish not sure about petrol models)

^^^^^ Ditto for TSI. The battery in my MY16 Octavia typically sits at 75% max. But it's still a good thing to give the battery an occasional 100% charge. 

Edited 11 February, 20233 yr by Warrior193
extra comment

13 hours ago, cado said:

I vaguely remember my oldest brother once starting a car bumper to bumper.

Which could be disastrous back in the days when not all vehicles were negative-earth - And the bumpers were metal! 😨 

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

One rule - check the instructions for the car (Owner's Manual) and the instructions for the charger.

 

1)  Yes but it will take longer and you don't want to use a fast charger and your RAC might be too heavy duty, to comply with the Owner's Handbook a 70Ah battery will want a 7-amp charger but you could use an 8-amp, much better I've found is to use a 4-amp charger or 2-amp but very few people have the time and patience to use the lower amp chargers.

 

ETA: Note what Warrior193 put about keeping an eye on using a "dumb" charger. -

"1 - Yes, but I would not recommend 'Dumb' charger - if no other option, monitor battery carefully and do not leave charging unattended." 

 

Better to disconnect the battery from the car for charging or sometimes better still, especially if using a "dumb" charger, to remove the battery from the car and move it to a more stable environment, battery likes (+) 5C to 20C ambient temperature.  

 

I've just recharged my neighbour's very flat (standard battery) at (two point seven volts) 2.7V from his "classic" car, removed from the car for convenience.  2.7V is far, far too low for the modern "smart" 4-amp charger to start from so I used my 30+ year old 4-amp "dumb" charger and 20+ year old 4-stage 1.2-amp charger.  It took 70+ hours to get it fully charged.  A week after the charge, sitting in the shed it still shows as 12.8V, checked on two testers.

 

Partially charged another neighbour's battery on the 2011 BMW still fitted to the car in the boot, no choice as he'd busted some bracket.  3.4V (three point four volts).  24 hours later using the modern "smart" charger and 30+ year old 4-amp "dumb" charger the battery wasn't fully charged but it the car had to go to it's new home, I've no idea how long that battery will hold its charge.

 

2)  As above.

 

3)  As above, but it depends on how "dead" or flat the battery is.  Avoid fast charging.  A battery is flat at 11.7V modern "smart" chargers may not try to charge a battery below 10.7V or some at below 6V or others at below 3V - read the instructions or specifications to find out which do what.

 

Keep your old charger, find out what amperage charger it is (label on the back) but also buy a 4-amp modern "smart" charger and maintainer that also  covers EFB, AGM, Lidl had some for £15, the Ring RSC804 charger and maintainer I bought was £23.49 or I think C-Tek are(?) £50-£70.

 

I'd recommend you don't let your battery get low, best not to go below about 12.3V (allow for inaccuracies if using a cheap multimeter) and I would always charge to 100% / "Full" on the charger, if charging on, or off, the car check the instructions for the car (Owner's Manual) and the instructions for the charger.

 

For jump starting, particularly off another vehicle, check the instructions for the car (Owner's Manual) getting it wrong could bring a lot of tears. 😭

 

 

Edited 11 February, 20233 yr by nta16
ETA:

Thanks Nigel,

It doesn't  matter if you are not a mechanic or expert in anything what can count, make a diffrence is knowledge/experience---good advise based on that should always be appreciated.

I have a 2016, start/stop 1.2 TSI Yeti which has not run now for 3 years, family circumstances, to long a story.

What is important is the existing factory fitted 60amp EFB battery is obviously dead flat and probably had it.

Regardless, I will fit a new 027, 60amp EFB battery or upgrade to a slightly larger 096 EFB battery.

It did occur to me because of my now driving habits, the car will get used a couple of times a week and for very short trips then left for the rest of the week.

It might get a couple of long trips a month when I visit the kids/grand-kids.

But I'm thinking such driving may not be enough to maintain the new battery in good condition, making sure it starts.

So asked about it here and a couple of other forums and the consensus was, get your self a trickle charger, which I did.

Because of budget constraints, I can't just throw money at things any more, everyone was saying a CTEK charger was the way to go.

However I purchased a Ring RSC808 smart charger, it had  decent enough reviews, should be arriving as I write this and I haven't got a new battery as yet.

My inexperience, I got confused with terminology, what a trickle charger, smart charger was, the difference between terms.

What also put me in a spin was reading smart chargers may not charge a battery if car battery is below a certain level, I didn't know this, the fix was to hook battery up to a standard charger for a while, then let the smart charger take over, if I understand correctly.

I knew I had a RAC dumb charger, the picture I posted, wasn't sure if it was OK to use it on a EFB battery if I ever had to.

Hopefully I should never have to use the dumb charger, If I maintain the new car battery with the Ring charger.

I have always thought it better to remove a battery for charging but with modern cars, their ECUs/codes and so, not always practical.

I am aware even if a battery is removed, once refitted, ECU/Codes/Memory will come back to life within a few minutes but have read this isn't always the case and can cause real issues, so removing a flat battery for charging isn't always best as it will hopefully still have enough in it to retain ECU/code details if left connected.

When trickle charging-- is it best to connect to battery positive terminal and  engine/chassis negative or is that Jump start rules?

 

Here is the label details on the back of my dumb charger.

Edited 11 February, 20233 yr by cado

Hi, your new Ring charger will do the job very well - but it will probably not be able to do anything with your original (dead-flat) one. Your old charger might possibly do a Lazarus on that one, but very unlikely - that level of deep-discharge will almost certainly be terminal (pun intended)

Definitely give your new battery an occasional recharge during spells of low use, self-discharge losses can be as much as 1% per day at certain ambient temperatures. Be aware that your new battery will arrive with less than a full charge, give it a top up treat with your new charger.

PS. same rule applies for negative charger lead when charging on vehicle.

Edited 11 February, 20233 yr by Warrior193
extra comment

1 hour ago, Warrior193 said:

Hi, your new Ring charger will do the job very well - but it will probably not be able to do anything with your original (dead-flat) one. Your old charger might possibly do a Lazarus on that one, but very unlikely - that level of deep-discharge will almost certainly be terminal (pun intended)

Definitely give your new battery an occasional recharge during spells of low use, self-discharge loses can be as much as 1% per day at certain ambient temperatures. Be aware that your new battery will arrive with less than a full charge, give it a top up treat with your new charger.

PS. same rule applies for negative charger lead when charging on vehicle.

Hi Warrior,

 

As I was reading yours, the door bell rang, new Ring Charger arrived.

 

Stopped reading, out of the box it came and--well--erm--well I wasn't sure what I was expecting.

 

Having read I could leave it permently fixed inside the engine compartment, I don't see how.

 

Don't get me wrong, it looks great, just bigger then I was expecting--I mean it's not huge or that big by any means, just bigger then I thought.

 

I am left thinking, if not so dumb and it's smart, how come its that big. 😀

 

The Ring's user manual, if a picture, ( several ), can say a thousand words, honestly it says sweet FA.

 

Pictures are great but manual requires some writen instructions/information along side--jeez!

 

Fortunatly I am now ahead of the game a bit.

 

Back to reading yours and thanks.

 

My existing battery is screwed, I'm having a new battery.

 

However I'm just curious if it could bring such a dead battery back to life and hold on to its life, I'll find out.

 

How long is a peice of string question this, when new battery arrives and it's unlikely to have a full charge, in your opnion how long should I leave it connected to the new charger?

 

When you say, " give your new battery an occasional recharge during spells of low use", given the way my car will be used, how often is occasional?

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

As has been put your existing battery would probably be far too far gone now for any recharge and use let alone on your Yeti but it still has recycle value (£8?).

 

I expect you already know that if you are getting a bigger EFB battery size that you need to check that the bigger battery will fit the thin insulation jacket (box?), fit on the shelf and hold down clamp and that the Ah rating is the same for the VW computer program(s).

 

If you're not going to add any high-use electric extras to your Yeti or sit for long periods without the engine running but using electric items then I'd not bother getting a bigger sized battery unless the existing size is more expensive (because it's a less common size) because you'll still need to use your RSC 808 whichever battery you fit.

 

It's not just if the battery starts the car, with the VW start/stop system and it computer programs, even if the car starts and the lights seem bright enough and there aren't yet any warning lights or messages the battery could still be too low for the computer and they will throw up all sorts of unexpected issues. 

 

The Ring RSC808 is a bigger version of the RSC804 you see being used in that photo of my wife's Fabia, the RSC808 still charges a (nominal) 12V battery at maximum of 4 amps which I think is good.  Any difficulties with it just ask, someone I know found the pictorials lacking and hard to follow.  Two things that aren't made clear in the brief instructions are that you use the winter setting when the ambient temperature is below (+) 5c, well that's what's on a previous Ring charger and second the ER 2 I take to mean the wrong battery voltage has been selected (6, 12, 24) or that the battery is too low or sulphated for this modern "smart" charger.

 

I bought my 804 after seeing the 808 review on a YouTube channel I follow, it's a fair review and good for how to use the charger.  Note when you first turn on the electric mains supply the charger tell you what is in your battery but bear in mind this reading is best taken a couple of hours after you have parked the car up (or 12-24 hours after the battery has come off a battery charger).

 

 

I get confused with the terminology and it doesn't seem fixed anyway, just follow what you have with the RSC808 and let it do it's stuff.

 

Yes you could use your RAC but it's not as convenient as a modern "smart" charger.  I'd never use it on fast charge at 15 amps (check your Yeti's Owner's Manual) and certainly not on a very flat battery as it'd probably kill the battery whereas the 2 amp ("trickle") charge may well revive many very flat batteries but take a long time, much longer than many would want to wait.  Yes you're right you shouldn't need to use it on your new battery if you use the Ring.

 

Again check your Yeti's Owner's Manual (can you see another theme here) about disconnecting and reconnecting the car battery and any resets that may (but not always) be required, it's nothing to worry about and more likely to do more good than harm ("try turnin' it off 'n' on agen").

 

For charging the battery or jump starting check your Yeti's Owner's Manual - honestly if you read and refer to the Owner's Manual when required you will know more about your car than many long term owners.  The charger's negative goes to the engine earth as shown in Urrell's earlier post.

 

I started putting " Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything." because my troll said my posts were too authoritative to my level of knowledge, and IIRC a Yeti owner agreed because I wouldn't accept that a car's alternator was all that was usually required and a battery charger wasn't, - so if you want I can give you the benefit of my experience if you want to just as an experiment (not for use on the Yeti) and to boost your confidence with the car battery, to find out if or how much you might be able to revive your existing battery I can guide you through the 'Messages' system on this site.

 

By leaving permanently connected, they mean attaching (usually optional)  DIN type connector leads to the vehicle battery charging points, and connecting the charger to that when required.

The old battery will almost certainly require a bit of a 'boot' from your RAC charger before the new Ring charger will initiate charging - it might never do so because the battery is beyond recovery. 

Depending on use, I'd suggest charging every month to 6 weeks, bear in mind that, even on relatively longish trips, the battery will rarely get a full charge. If you have a reasonable digital multimeter (pretty good ones are not especially expensive, and are always useful to have about the house) If you do buy a DMM, go for one with a higher count reading, suggest over 2500-3000 count. If interested, I can recommend a reasonable one for you.

I'd recharge when the battery standing voltage drops below approx. 50-60% (12.1 - 12.2 volts)

Give the new battery a full charge, the Ring charger will tell you when it's got there. It is safe to leave unattended, the internal circuitry of the charger will prevent any risk of damage through overcharging - just make sure you select the correct mode.    

Edited 11 February, 20233 yr by Warrior193
correction

I have recently put together this data for EFB batteries, from Varta and Yuasa sources, for reference in the future.

 

 EFB - Enhanced Flood Battery (Simple Stop/Start) not for cars that use energy recovery.

 

Charging voltages: EFB - Cycle (i.e on car) 14.4 Volt.  Float (i.e on float charger) 13.4.

 

Battery Condition:

EFB
Battery Volts	%Charge	Action
12.8	100	OK
12.4	75	OK
12.1	50	Charge
11.9	25	Urgent Charge

If less than 11.9 volts it’s knackered!

 

These are voltages measured with the car cold and after standing overnight and the engine is not running.

 

With a battery in good condition, say 75% charged on engine start up and idling, you would expect to measure 14.4 or thereabouts on the battery terminals.  After a decent run, or after a top up charge, then expect a voltage somewhere about 12.6V.  On that basis I would expect to charge the battery overnight when it gets down to 12.2 ish.

 

My new Scala gives me: Engine off V=12.54 v. Engine running on idle V=13.2. Battery has a high charge and the car is float charging it.

 

Of course you need a test meter to do the voltage measurements, I believe that you can buy simple meters (i.e. have real digits rather than just ‘good’ ‘ok’ ‘low’ indicator lights) that plug into the cigar lighter socket.

If in doubt and you haven’t run the car for a hour or so then I would charge the battery once every two weeks in a typical English winter and once every month in summer.  

 

Hope that helps, if only a little.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

I can't one finger type fast enough.

 

I was still typing my last post before I saw your (cado) last post.

 

cado hopefully my previous post will cover some of your points, to cover the others -

 

as has been put by Warrior193, and me in an earlier post, the modern Ring "smart" charger alone will not get your existing battery back but using the RAC on 2-amp setting to lift it for the Ring to start and then alternating their use ending with the Ring may recover the battery for other use

 

permeant fixing would require a little bit of sorting if you can't leave the bonnet up, if you have a garage different to if you don't

 

when the new battery arrives you connect the Ring charger it will show the new battery's voltage, then you select 12V car and leave the Ring to do it's work, when it reaches full it will show "FUL", how long, er less than an hour or less than two

 

it depends on how easy and convenient it is for you to connect up the Ring but if it's easy I would use that to give a reading of the battery voltage instead of a cheap multimeter - check after the car has been parked up for a few hours (or 12-24 hours after recharging with the Ring)

 

I would use the Ring charger to charge the battery if it showed the battery to be 12.2V or 12.3V so just a little more cautious than Warrior193 (but this is a "do as I say and not as I do" because despite how it seems I rarely bother checking the battery as I never really had to before my wife got this VW computer programs.

 

Do ensure you read the Yeti's Owner's Manual about disconnecting and changing the battery and possible resets after reconnecting the new battery.

 

@John2022 great information, good on you for going to such sources.  The battery manufacturers do vary a little with their information and advice so one consensus source like yours is good (but don't necessarily believe that 11.9V (totally) knackered) .

 

Trying to add to your info and not diminish it as you can only have general advice because there are so many variables with the vehicle use so I'm not knocking you at all, you can take or leave my notes, they're just my notes - 

 

- the volts to % can be about 0.1V variance

- 11.9V in reality is nowhere near knackered, might be weakened, even the Ring "smart" would probably start charging a battery at 10.7V (as an example, it doesn't state), see my earlier post (7 hrs back now) 

- in summer if it's 30c weather then the battery itself discharges twice as much as at 20c and at 40c (as last summer) then the self-discharge is twice as much as 30c, so the battery is weaken for it's late-autumn and winter use

 

Just for info and to show variance, not that it matters generally, figures from my neighbour's Ring RSC612 battery charger/tester. -  

12.7v - 100%   -   12.5v - 90%   -   12.4v - 80%   -   12.3V - 70%   -   12.2v - 60%   -   12.1v - 50%   -   11.9v - 40%   -   11.8v - 30%   -   11.6v - 20%   -   11.3v - 10%

 

And VW figures. - 

Charge level             No-load          voltage

1.28 g/cm3                100%              12.7 V

1.21 g/cm3                60%                12.3 V

1.18 g/cm3                40%                12.1 V

1.10 g/cm3                0%                  11.7 V

 

I've seen 12.9V put as 6 x 2.15V but I'd go with whatever figure any particular charger uses for 100% charge, the Ring RSC804 (808) doesn't give any so it makes things easier. 😄

 

Edited 11 February, 20233 yr by nta16
spelling

9 hours ago, nta16 said:

As has been put your existing battery would probably be far too far gone now for any recharge and use let alone on your Yeti but it still has recycle value (£8?).

 

I expect you already know that if you are getting a bigger EFB battery size that you need to check that the bigger battery will fit the thin insulation jacket (box?), fit on the shelf and hold down clamp and that the Ah rating is the same for the VW computer program(s).

 

If you're not going to add any high-use electric extras to your Yeti or sit for long periods without the engine running but using electric items then I'd not bother getting a bigger sized battery unless the existing size is more expensive (because it's a less common size) because you'll still need to use your RSC 808 whichever battery you fit.

 

I get confused with the terminology and it doesn't seem fixed anyway, just follow what you have with the RSC808 and let it do it's stuff.

 

Yes you could use your RAC but it's not as convenient as a modern "smart" charger. 

 

I started putting " Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything." because my troll said my posts were too authoritative to my level of knowledge--------

 

Thanks Nigel,

I edited your reply just so mine was more focused but all was taken on board and appreciated.

I am getting a new EFB battery, either the same size or a little larger, one of the reasons why I started this and my other thread.

I am not ever going to use the old battery again, I just want to see if it could be brought back to life and hold a charge out of the car--but it will be discarded.

I read about old car battery recycle values and have wondered whom its recycle it to?

The battery jacket, if like for like battery, a simple swap, existing jacket will fit, If I opt for a slightly larger battery ( 096 ), I will purchase a 2nd hand heat jacket, doesn't matter from what vehicle, cut, alter and join to my existing jacket, making a neat a job of it as possible.

The reason why I have explored fitting a slightly larger battery is the way the vehicle will be used/unused and more CCA during the winter months but I might be over hhinking this and unnecessary work.

I won't be adding anything more extra electrical as such so a replacement existing size battery will cope just fine, it is just a larger battery would give me more CCA during winter months.

Having said that, a new battery of same size when fitted and then maintained, the engine  should roar into life, winter and summer.

You wrote, ----" the Ah rating is the same for the VW computer program(s)". If I understand you, what you are saying is the vehicle needs to be coded so it recognises same new or larger battery and Ah.

Which ever VAG I use to sort my Yeti will have all the diagnostic equipment and code battery accordingly and in my case it's more important as the existing battery is so flat, so dead the vehicle will have lost all sorts of codes--I think.

( there was a time, not so long a go, some batteries came with BEM codes to input but this is no longer the case ).

You had a troll, me to, several over the years, you can't stop them, ( a scene from Lord of the Rings reminds me of them, mindless and crawling all over the walls ), a solution, don't let their **** stick, they can fling it but you can wash, if others want to take on board what they have said, verbatim like, then they get to share, it's stuck to them.

11 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

By leaving permanently connected, they mean attaching (usually optional)  DIN type connector leads to the vehicle battery charging points, and connecting the charger to that when required.

The old battery will almost certainly require a bit of a 'boot' from your RAC charger before the new Ring charger will initiate charging - it might never do so because the battery is beyond recovery. 

Depending on use, I'd suggest charging every month to 6 weeks, bear in mind that, even on relatively longish trips, the battery will rarely get a full charge. If you have a reasonable digital multimeter (pretty good ones are not especially expensive, and are always useful to have about the house) If you do buy a DMM, go for one with a higher count reading, suggest over 2500-3000 count. If interested, I can recommend a reasonable one for you.

I'd recharge when the battery standing voltage drops below approx. 50-60% (12.1 - 12.2 volts)

Give the new battery a full charge, the Ring charger will tell you when it's got there. It is safe to leave unattended, the internal circuitry of the charger will prevent any risk of damage through overcharging - just make sure you select the correct mode.    

Hi Warrior and thanks.

 

I'm stupid, my new smart charger is more smarter then me.

 

I read, you can leave permanently connected to car, which is why I thought charger was going to be small for engine compartment, what it meant was, you can leave extra ring terminal lead connected if so desired,--dohh.?😬

 

I didn't see extra lead in box, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it, what was I thinking, so stupid--mutter--mutter.

 

What DMM would you recommend?

 

I will give new battery a charge and thanks for tips on between charges, appreciated.

 

Edited 12 February, 20233 yr by cado

Hi @cado I've been using an AstroAl , 4000 count DMM for the past 2 years, I use this one for work and can recommend it as a good, reliable, budget DMM.

It is auto-ranging, simple to use, reads true RMS values, has battery test function for dry/rechargeable cells and even a non-contact test function for mains. The only negative point is that it doesn't come with a protective case.

It's not a Fluke 77 IV, but for less than £21, it's a bargain.