Just before Christmas last year my battery needed replacing so I brought the car to my usual Garage and they replaced the start /stop battery. After picking up the car i had driven only about 30 mins up the road and i got lights on the dash... Amber EPC anf caution light i thnk it was and the car went into limp mode. 

Turned off the engine and everything was back to normal. Brought it back to the garage that week and they plugged it in and after doing the same thing multiple times that week they said it showed up as an oil pressure switch malfunction. Replaced oil pressure switch but did not solve the problem. 

Ended up bringing the car to another garage to get looked at and they serviced the oil and filter and plugged it in and said the same, oil pressure switch malfunction and they said it didnt look as if either of the pressure switches had been replaced previously. So i went and ordered the pressure switches ans changed them myself, amd still it didnt solve the issue. 

So jump ahead to last week when i brought the car to a mechanic friend of mine and he suggested that next thing he would suggest is to drop the sump as maybe the oil pickup ia getting clogged with sludge. 

So we dropped the sump only to find loads of bits of broken black plastic. At first thinking it was part of the baffle but the baffle was fine. Nothing else obvious that it could have been. We cleaned it all out and ever since the car has been running great but its bugging me that we didnt figure out what that black plastic was. 

After looking online i thought i had figured it out, thinking it was a broken chain tensioner or guide. But then i tried to piece back together the bits of broken black plastic to see if there was any shape or size to help figure out what it was. 

It seems to be about the circumference of a toilet roll so i stuck some of the pieces to one with double sided tape. 

Im still none the wiser so here are some pics of it... Any ideas welcomed... 

 

Can you make out any part no's?

18 minutes ago, ords said:

Can you make out any part no's?

No part numbers, just a grid with some consecutive numbers like dates or something and then an Audi symbol and the letters WFN.... Thats all... 

That's a bit of a coincidence. There's another thread posted on here recently with oil pressures faults, senders replaced. In the end pulled sump and full of black plastic. Presumed to be chain rail or guide..  maybe not though. Ill try to link thread.

 

Intriguing. As to what it is. It looks cylindrical. Like the casing on a dsg oil filter. But it can't be that. So still scratching head..  

 

 

Edit. Link. 

 

 

Edited 24 April, 20233 yr by TheClient

1 minute ago, TheClient said:

That's a bit of a coincidence. There's another thread posted on here recently with oil pressures faults, senders replaced. In the end pulled sump and full of black plastic. Presumed to be chain rail or guide..  maybe not though. Ill try to link thread.

 

Intriguing. As to what it is. It looks cylindrical. Like the casing on a dsg oil filter. But it can't be that. So still scratching head..  

 

 

Yes, this and the other thread are the one and the same issue. Decided to post the issue separatly as i disnt want to be hijacking the other thread as it wasn't originally about that issue. I had thought until the other day that it was a tensioner or guide but the shapes of the parts don't match... It has me stumped at the moment. Ive it booked into Skoda in a couple of weeks to do a diagnostic and have a look at the timing chain area as much as they possibly can without ripping half the engine apart. 

9 minutes ago, dimrod said:

Yes, this and the other thread are the one and the same issue. Decided to post the issue separatly as i disnt want to be hijacking the other thread as it wasn't originally about that issue. I had thought until the other day that it was a tensioner or guide but the shapes of the parts don't match... It has me stumped at the moment. Ive it booked into Skoda in a couple of weeks to do a diagnostic and have a look at the timing chain area as much as they possibly can without ripping half the engine apart. 

Oh I see. Didn't notice names with you not being the op in on the other thread. 

 

Yep. It really does not look like a guide or rail. Much chunkier plastic. Not thin. And although curved in places not  cylindrical!! 

Edited 24 April, 20233 yr by TheClient

Balance shaft liner.

 

 

1 minute ago, TheClient said:

Balance shaft liner.

 

 

Thats the part I'm sure... Fair play, how did you do that? 🙂

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/tube/06k103199a/

 

 

 

Edited 24 April, 20233 yr by TheClient

1 minute ago, dimrod said:

Thats the part I'm sure... Fair play, how did you do that? 🙂

 

Just rewatched a humble mechanic 2.0tsi tear down video. I knew in the back of my mind I'd seen some plastic toilet roll holder in there somewhere! 

2 minutes ago, TheClient said:

 

Just rewatched a humble mechanic 2.0tsi tear down video. I knew in the back of my mind I'd seen some plastic toilet roll holder in there somewhere! 

Thanks a million, now to figure out how that ended up breaking and how much of a job it is to fix it. 

Just now, dimrod said:

Thanks a million, now to figure out how that ended up breaking and how much of a job it is to fix it. 

Yeah. I think it's timing chain work ++ some more. There is 2 of those liners, for 2 x balance shafts,  so the other's going to be needed replacing as well along with all the other timing gubbins whilst your in there..  doesn't sound cheap I'm afraid. If the rest of the engine is sound I guess it will be someway cheaper than a new engine.   

6 minutes ago, TheClient said:

Yeah. I think it's timing chain work ++ some more. There is 2 of those liners, for 2 x balance shafts,  so the other's going to be needed replacing as well along with all the other timing gubbins whilst your in there..  doesn't sound cheap I'm afraid. If the rest of the engine is sound I guess it will be someway cheaper than a new engine

Just watched that video from the humble mechanic... How does that balance shaft liner make its way into the oil sump? Crazy

7 hours ago, TheClient said:

Yeah. I think it's timing chain work ++ some more. There is 2 of those liners, for 2 x balance shafts,  so the other's going to be needed replacing as well along with all the other timing gubbins whilst your in there..  doesn't sound cheap I'm afraid. If the rest of the engine is sound I guess it will be someway cheaper than a new engine.   

im wrong about 2 x liners. There’s 1no liner on the exhaust balance shaft. No liner on intake. But there are 2 x balance shafts and given mileage and problem of plastic sleeve break up they both may need inspecting, cleaning, maybe replacing. That said the intake looks like a pain.

 

versa.

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, dimrod said:

Just watched that video from the humble mechanic... How does that balance shaft liner make its way into the oil sump? Crazy

Yeah. He’s a good guy Charles, I have watched and used heaps of his vids on gen 2 and gen 3 ea888s. The tear down video I saw, linked below is of the gen 2, the predecessor to what’s in your car but there is a lot of similarity given the shared family.

 

I think the sleeve breaks up. Then finds it’s way out. Not sure how through block galleries.  Why, I don’t know. Brittle maybe or catches. Not sure at all. Those balance shafts will need checking and the strainers at least. If that’s all you will have got off lightly.

 

balance shafts at about 7:30 duration. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vw+golf+mk7+balance+shaft+tube+broken+up&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f70bfe40,vid:OQfdq4V6A-8

 

 

1 hour ago, TheClient said:

im wrong about 2 x liners. There’s 1no liner on the exhaust balance shaft. No liner on intake. But there are 2 x balance shafts and given mileage and problem of plastic sleeve break up they both may need inspecting, cleaning, maybe replacing. That said the intake looks like a pain.

 

versa.

 

 

 

 

Yeah. He’s a good guy Charles, I have watched and used heaps of his vids on gen 2 and gen 3 ea888s. The tear down video I saw, linked below is of the gen 2, the predecessor to what’s in your car but there is a lot of similarity given the shared family.

 

I think the sleeve breaks up. Then finds it’s way out. Not sure how through block galleries.  Why, I don’t know. Brittle maybe or catches. Not sure at all. Those balance shafts will need checking and the strainers at least. If that’s all you will have got off lightly.

 

balance shafts at about 7:30 duration. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vw+golf+mk7+balance+shaft+tube+broken+up&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f70bfe40,vid:OQfdq4V6A-8

 

 

Yeah its strange, the car is driving perfectly at the moment. I'll update here when i have any more news on this. Thanks for your help. 

21 minutes ago, dimrod said:

Yeah its strange, the car is driving perfectly at the moment. I'll update here when i have any more news on this. Thanks for your help. 

A bit of investigation and/or  research into the purpose of that liner may help. I can't imagine the designers thought why not, we've got a big recess in here, so let's add in a plastic  liner for the he'll of it... 

 

Someone who's actually dealt with balance shaft removal / renewal on one of these engines would be able to comment better than me. Say a vw specialist garage or vw / edit skoda worksop but you'll always be talking to a front line advisor there,  certainly initially until strip down or investigation anyways.   

 

The bearing is at the back, so the bs is not riding on that plastic sleeve as such. 

 

Maybe it's a oil deflection or oil direction / edit retention sleeve to stop oil ON the shaft of the balance shafts (which are not round, flanged) getting thrown about at high velocity. The balance shafts run at double engine speed I believe.  So 5k engine speed is 10k shaft speed. 

 

Good luck. Yes, do report back..  

Edited 25 April, 20233 yr by TheClient

2 hours ago, TheClient said:

A bit of investigation and/or  research into the purpose of that liner may help. I can't imagine the designers thought why not, we've got a big recess in here, so let's add in a plastic  liner for the he'll of it... 

 

I agree, if it were mine I would be saying other than the oil suction blockages from the debris in the sump the engine seems to be running fine without it.

 

Do the oil jets for the piston skirts spray or splash oil in that direction? I speculate it something to do with keeping oil temperatures down, the rear exhaust side of the engine block being heated by the turbo, it cant be to prevent windage losses if the other balance shaft is exposed unless oil is not present there, perhaps it due to where the oil drains down from the cylinder head.

 

Part of me says the part is an afterthought, not designed in from the beginning, probably after they noticed oil heating or windage issues on the test bed.

 

I would stick the pieces back together and use it in the bathroom!!!

4 hours ago, TheClient said:

Yeah. He’s a good guy Charles,

 

Is he the guy that was on an American resto program on Sky with the vain egotistical Richard something?

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Is he the guy that was on an American resto program on Sky with the vain egotistical Richard something?

Not sure I haven't seen that. I doubt it tho. He goes by the brand name humble mechanic in the US of A.  His first name is Charles. He is mates with Paul Barrett from Shop DAP.com (US vw part retailer). He's done hundreds of videos (now pretty much exclusively youtube I think) on VW parts, failed parts, tear downs, fixes, mods.   Some of them with Paul. They're both ex vw techs.

Not the best photo but it is what came up.. Paul Left - Charles right with ZZ top beard.

 

 

28 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

I agree, if it were mine I would be saying other than the oil suction blockages from the debris in the sump the engine seems to be running fine without it.

 

Do the oil jets for the piston skirts spray or splash oil in that direction? I speculate it something to do with keeping oil temperatures down, the rear exhaust side of the engine block being heated by the turbo, it cant be to prevent windage losses if the other balance shaft is exposed unless oil is not present there, perhaps it due to where the oil drains down from the cylinder head.

 

Part of me says the part is an afterthought, not designed in from the beginning, probably after they noticed oil heating or windage issues on the test bed.

 

I would stick the pieces back together and use it in the bathroom!!!

There are cooling jets underneath each piston close to the crank and aligned to centre of each piston . Not sure if the closest one, could reach the balance shaft recess - only if the recess is not fully closed and has an open gallery area to the crank area below.

 

Looked at the VW Self Study Guide which has some good diagrams of oil supply and return schematics and of the balance shafts and chain and tensioner but doesn't show or touch on the plastic tube....

 

Spent a bit more time looking at other videos this morning, got no further really. On the gen 2, there is quite a few balance shaft seizes out there on golf GTis and the like. All that I saw videos on - are on the exhaust side. On the gen 2, on the bs it doesn't seem that they ran the needle roller bearings now present in the gen3, but they still had a plastic tube on the exhaust balance shaft....

 

One of the videos I saw, with a siezed balance shaft,  had damaged the plastic sleeve melted and distorted,  from heat due to a strainer oil intake mesh on the balance shaft being partly blocked. Assuming that is the correct order of events. It's one hypothesis.   It hadn't full broken apart though - the tube on that video it, the engine seized solid after a dyno run.  And for the plastic parts that size to get to the bottom of engine like in this case,  maybe there is a void or big return gallery in that exhaust balance shaft recess open to bottom of engine....  The debris can't come out the front of the balance shaft its bolted - to block.  The debris size couldn't travel by fine oil galleries..

 

One worry I'd have is that the plasitc tube has failed due to excessive heat - due to a starved bearing on the balance shaft which could present a balance shaft failure risk without addressing..

 

The other, is whether that sleeve is directing oil or retaining oil in a particular way to ensure reliable operation of the balance shaft.

 

Admittedly, it is expensive to address any of this and it seems to be running well for time being, so is it worth it on a fairly high mile vehicle....

 

It's all got a bit over my pay grade. And my head hurts now.  I may post a comment on one of the gen 2 video failures I've seen and ask what they see the plastic tube purpose as...... see if I get a bite...

 

 

 

 

Yes I reretted my comments about leaving it when reading about the mesh screen and bearing failures.

 

Modern ICE's are just far too complicated now, Lol-Lols evengelism about EV's is beginning to sway me.

 

I've spent most of this year trying to coax 2 stroke garden mechinery back into life, then carb rebuilds or replacement to get them all tip-top before they were needed yet they have all let me down the first time I tried to use them.

 

My 1996 4 stroke disc cutter whilst a little temperemental, it is Italian after all still does what I ask of it even after several years of absence, still on the original spark plug.

 

My 1960's wacker plate with a 1950's Villiers stationary engine always starts, it may rip the tendons out of your hands with kickback but it always starts even after being loaned for 5 years to serial abusers.

 

Of course none of these are subject to emissions control.

 

It was the simplicity of the diesel engine combined with the smoothness and economy that took me from petrol to diesel 18 years ago, the ASV (I think) engine in my MK1 Octavia was at the pinnacle of simplicity, reliability and efficiency, its gone rapidly downhill since, who could believe that the simple compression ignition engine would become so complicated and unreliable?

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Is he the guy that was on an American resto program on Sky with the vain egotistical Richard something?

 

No, I believe you're thinking of  Aaron Kaufman who was the head mechanic in Richard Rawlings' Gas Monkey Garage. 

Thanks for that, he looks very similar but without the beard probably wouldnt be, they both sound so similar and have similar presenting styles AKA they dont make me stop the video after 2 seconds of HI GUYS! or have me scrolling through 30 minutes to watch 30 seconds of relevance.

17 hours ago, TheClient said:

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/tube/06k103199a/

Elite broken part identification skills! 👌

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

Modern ICE's are just far too complicated now, Lol-Lols evengelism about EV's is beginning to sway me.

Don't encourage him! 😋