Volvo EX 30 - Quicker, relatively cheap, proper EV styling without nod to ICE car looks

[wyx087]

1 hour ago, Ttaskmaster said:

They did specify that my ASZ engine was far better for the environment than newer versions with DPFs and the like.

Was it due to better fuel economy?

'Cos in terms of local air quality, without DPF is certainly a big no-no.

 

1 hour ago, Ttaskmaster said:

It's not so much fear of technology, or of the 'Google-type megacorp' that I expect ultimately runs all that data capture, but of that data falling into the wrong hands as it so frequently does.

Totally agree. Unfortunately data often end up with companies who don't know how to manage it. Nissan, for example are not able to provide me with a way to download historic data as per GDPR for my old car, due to zero development for this old platform once sale stopped.

 

I get the feeling many car company will handle software and data this way.

[Ttaskmaster]

16 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Was it due to better fuel economy?

'Cos in terms of local air quality, without DPF is certainly a big no-no.

 

This is apparently due to "something-something-something-engineery-talk, meaning that the DPF doesn't eliminate the more harmful microparticles, still releases the stored larger particles of blah-blahrium into the atmosphere during the burn-off of DPF regeneration and also generates a lot more carbon dioxide as well as releasing particulates of the precious metals used in such devices. This is furthered by ultra low sulphur diesel fuel with poorer fuel efficiency, which contributes to higher fuel consumption and an increase in CO2 emissions".... and also the better fuel economy of the PD engine.

 

And yes, the guy reeled all that off in one breath.

He also pointed out that local air quality only applies to the point of examination, which only measures certain emitted pollutants and does not take into account the wider pollution resulting from such vehicles.

 

16 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Totally agree. Unfortunately data often end up with companies who don't know how to manage it. Nissan, for example are not able to provide me with a way to download historic data as per GDPR for my old car, due to zero development for this old platform once sale stopped. I get the feeling many car company will handle software and data this way.

 

It's also about how unsecure that data is.

Plenty of companies tell me they never sell my data or pass it on to a third party, yet some of them clearly do as I get a sudden surge of spam and cold-calls within days of using them.

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Ttaskmaster said:

 

This is apparently due to "something-something-something-engineery-talk, meaning that the DPF doesn't eliminate the more harmful microparticles, still releases the stored larger particles of blah-blahrium into the atmosphere during the burn-off of DPF regeneration and also generates a lot more carbon dioxide as well as releasing particulates of the precious metals used in such devices. This is furthered by ultra low sulphur diesel fuel with poorer fuel efficiency, which contributes to higher fuel consumption and an increase in CO2 emissions".... and also the better fuel economy of the PD engine.

And yes, the guy reeled all that off in one breath.

He also pointed out that local air quality only applies to the point of examination, which only measures certain emitted pollutants and does not take into account the wider pollution resulting from such vehicles.

It's also about how unsecure that data is.

Plenty of companies tell me they never sell my data or pass it on to a third party, yet some of them clearly do as I get a sudden surge of spam and cold-calls within days of using them.

 

Much of the so called fixes that were tried to be put on to ICE cars have actually failed to significantly improve pollution, only going to Zero Emission vehicles, not even plug in hybrids made a big different, maybe ADBlue on NOX as I have not read any really negative reports on that, yet.

 

Real word test on cars with catalytic convertors have shown the cats were not working properly much of the time as the cat was not reaching sufficiently high temperatures to make it work.

 

Most western and many Asian governments have concluded that only Fully EVs, BEVs, are going to make a different, unless hydrogen actually does take off, fuel cell or burning it, either.

 

Market players who do not believe in the EV future have lost tens of billions of dollar on  betting on Shorts on TESLA stock value ie that the value would go down not up, it is not only the blind that cannot see.

 

 

https://www.marke****ch.com/story/tesla-stock-rises-toward-record-12-day-win-streak-f9d237cd

Shares of Tesla Inc. on Monday did something they have never done since going public 13 years ago, notching a 12th straight gain. That broke the previous record win streak off 11 gains, which ended Jan. 8, 2021 and was matched on Friday. The electric vehicle giant’s stock had run up 33.6% over the previous 11 days, compared with a 37.4% gain during the January 2021 streak.

[Ttaskmaster]

On 13/06/2023 at 16:07, lol-lol said:

Most western and many Asian governments have concluded that only Fully EVs, BEVs, are going to make a different, unless hydrogen actually does take off, fuel cell or burning it, either.

Market players who do not believe in the EV future have lost tens of billions of dollar on  betting on Shorts on TESLA stock value ie that the value would go down not up, it is not only the blind that cannot see.

 

Have they concluded that all this mining, refining and the subsequent disposal of degraded batteries is going to save the planet... or have the decided this is the more profitable option for them?

Genuine question.

 

Similarly, people made stacks of money from the Detroit motor industry and their share prices were once amazing.

But now Detroit is an absolute cess pit of polluted waterways and neighbourhoods that look like demilitarized zones.

 

I remain skeptical of the environmental side, and in disgust of the hideous aesthetics sported by most EVs.

[wyx087]

14 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Have they concluded that all this mining, refining and the subsequent disposal of degraded batteries is going to save the planet... or have the decided this is the more profitable option for them?

The mining, refining and disposal of a single use product, known as oil, petrol/diesel, and subsequent CO2 has been extremely profitable. Especially the last part where there's no associated cost. 

 

The mining, refining and reuse, recycling of batteries is a circular motion. Currently need to mine a lot but in 20 years time when EV batteries can no longer be reused as stationary battery and must be recycled, mining efforts can be greatly reduced. 

 

Reduce - efficiency 

Reuse - second life local storage 

Recycle - no more mining 

[lol-lol]

2 hours ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Have they concluded that all this mining, refining and the subsequent disposal of degraded batteries is going to save the planet... or have the decided this is the more profitable option for them?

Genuine question.

Similarly, people made stacks of money from the Detroit motor industry and ther share prices were once amazing.

But now Detroit is an absolute cess pit of polluted waterways and neighbourhoods that look like demilitarized zones.

I remain skeptical of the environmental side, and in disgust of the hideous aesthetics sported by most EVs.

 

Use of those horrible rare earth metals is quickly declining, we did not use them in my companies solid state LMP batteries but early Lithium ion batteries did but they are being phased out.

 

One the traction battery has served it time in the EV and the EV becomes so much lower range than other EV offering these EVs typically go to a specialist place for assessment.  It might be that just a few a few odd cells need replacing and the car could soon be back to full original range.  Packs can be rebuild with better packs as the energy density improved year on year.  With the Zoe the 22 kWh, gets replaced by the 40 and then the 52 kWh pack, much of the battery pack can be reused and upgraded.

 

If a battery pack is not worth upgrading it can be put in to a static battery set, we do much of this out to Africa for villages out there which are not on the grid.  Works well for them to act as a static battery set to give then lighting and heating etc during the night and then they can regard the battery set during the day via solar.  Not unreasonably to see that the batteries can have a life of several decades before needing scrapping.

 

We have some pretty EV on the way.  MG Cyberster, TESLA roadster and we already have cars like the Rimac........

With blade battery packs shapes are even more flexible as to not have a piston engine, VVankels engines are more compact of course.

 

 

  

 

 

 

Edited 15 June, 2023 by lol-lol

[Ttaskmaster]

10 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

We have some pretty EV on the way.  MG Cyberster, TESLA roadster and we already have cars like the Rimac........

How many have massive ugly touchscreens slapped on the dash?

[lol-lol]

3 hours ago, Ttaskmaster said:

How many have massive ugly touchscreens slapped on the dash?

 

Dunno. TESLA probably but other makes probably quite tasteful wrap around screens like most EVs.   Love mine in the Zoe and especially the Google in built with permanent over the air updating for the Google maps, car software etc.  The obvious way forward to me.

 

[Ttaskmaster]

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Dunno. TESLA probably but other makes probably quite tasteful wrap around screens like most EVs.   Love mine in the Zoe and especially the Google in built with permanent over the air updating for the Google maps, car software etc.  The obvious way forward to me.

 

 

What, this thing?

 

 

If you gave me that for free, I'd just sell it. Wouldn't even take it for a test drive.

 

 

[wyx087]

Everything 90's car had are still dials and buttons.

The touch screen looks to only do sat-nav and music. Latter can be controlled via button on steering wheel.

 

So what is the problem? Is it purely down to don't like the aesthetics?

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Ttaskmaster said:

 

What, this thing?

 

 

If you gave me that for free, I'd just sell it. Wouldn't even take it for a test drive.

 

 

 

Oh that screen is bijou. Now I loved both my l&k Skoda but in retrospect the 130 go diesel enginec car was a filthy polluter, the 1.8 tsi was a diamond.  We must move on to save our world.

[J.R.]

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Everything 90's car had are still dials and buttons.

The touch screen looks to only do sat-nav and music. Latter can be controlled via button on steering wheel.

 

So what is the problem? Is it purely down to don't like the aesthetics?

 

Good point but it is still Fugly and I doubt could be anything but.

[Ttaskmaster]

17 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Everything 90's car had are still dials and buttons.

The touch screen looks to only do sat-nav and music. Latter can be controlled via button on steering wheel.

 

So what is the problem? Is it purely down to don't like the aesthetics?

 

Aesthetics is a big aspect, yes.

Does the screen not also control battery management, performance settings, suspension management and all the other electric-fantastic things that EVs have?

 

16 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

Oh that screen is bijou. Now I loved both my l&k Skoda but in retrospect the 130 go diesel enginec car was a filthy polluter, the 1.8 tsi was a diamond.  We must move on to save our world.

 

It's feckin' hideous. Looks like a cardboard cut-out control panel from some cheap 70s sci-fi TV programme, or an early 80s concept car design, rather than a sleekly-designed, refined and finished product.

Could they not have made it a bit smaller and maybe integrated it into the dash more instead of just bolting it right on to the front like that?

I've seen laptops integrated into vehicles better than this.

[wyx087]

16 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Does the screen not also control battery management, performance settings, suspension management and all the other electric-fantastic things that EVs have?

I don't know about that car in particular.

 

But battery management is automatic. Absolutely to set/change when driving, not on Leaf and not on Tesla. When parked, you may want to set charging limits/schedule on some cars, a touchscreen is fine when parked.

Performance/suspension settings are typically a set and forget. There are a single setting to set in Tesla, but it's the same in petrol/diesel cars, the button only brings up the screen and use touch screen to customise.

 

The only thing I use the most on touch screen is selecting music. This being on touchscreen is not EV specific.

[lol-lol]

24 minutes ago, Ttaskmaster said:

Aesthetics is a big aspect, yes.

Does the screen not also control battery management, performance settings, suspension management and all the other electric-fantastic things that EVs have?

It's feckin' hideous. Looks like a cardboard cut-out control panel from some cheap 70s sci-fi TV programme, or an early 80s concept car design, rather than a sleekly-designed, refined and finished product.

Could they not have made it a bit smaller and maybe integrated it into the dash more instead of just bolting it right on to the front like that?

I've seen laptops integrated into vehicles better than this.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on the fairly small flat screen in middle. It means that LHD and RHD versions can use the same part by plonking it in the middle ie big cost saver, something done since the 850 mini was launched in about 1960.

 

It is also useful if I am driving and I ask the passenger to plug in a new destination which they can do comfortably from their seat although the voice programming via Google also works most of the time.  The passenger can also set their music, connect their phone, usually an Apple something and get their music off their phone.  My passenger in the Zoe must have used the centre console screen to do numerous navigation and music actions by the passenger which is made so easy with this console where it is.  I have my own formattable screen behind the steering wheel and change it to what I want to ie a version of navigation and/or instruments.  I really like the Zoe's instruments and I do like the knows it has for temperature, air directing etc and will miss this when I move to a car such as a TESLA that does everything though the tablet and I will have to learn to command by voice rather than twiddle knobs. No big hardship for what these car give one, ie clean driving and grea perfromance. 

 

[Ttaskmaster]

9 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

We will have to agree to disagree on the fairly small flat screen in middle. It means that LHD and RHD versions can use the same part by plonking it in the middle ie big cost saver, something done since the 850 mini was launched in about 1960.

That's small, in your mind? It looks bigger than a 10" iPad....!

I have no issue with it being situated centrally. What I intensely dislike is how it looks like an aftermarket product that has just been glued onto the front of the dashboard by a clueless DIY modder.

 

 

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, Ttaskmaster said:

That's small, in your mind? It looks bigger than a 10" iPad....!

I have no issue with it being situated centrally. What I intensely dislike is how it looks like an aftermarket product that has just been glued onto the front of the dashboard by a clueless DIY modder.

 

Less than 24 cms.  Even my 2014 Clio mark 4 Nav S looked quite similar.  Back in the days of either DVD or solid state memory maps rather than realtime Google maps in my Arkana and Zoe.  I do agree the 17 inch screen in the TESLAs look overkill but these 10 inch screen, even maybe 12 inch, measured corner to opposite corner look OK to me.  My near eye sight is not so good as it was so a nice sized screen is helpful to me, whether it is a tablet format or a bit wrap around, not that bother but flat is cheaper of course.  I have had some petty big sat nav unit screens 7 inch and more I recall, did the job and nice and cheap.  

 

[Ttaskmaster]

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

 

Less than 24 cms.  Even my 2014 Clio mark 4 Nav S looked quite similar.  Back in the days of either DVD or solid state memory maps rather than realtime Google maps in my Arkana and Zoe.  I do agree the 17 inch screen in the TESLAs look overkill but these 10 inch screen, even maybe 12 inch, measured corner to opposite corner look OK to me.  My near eye sight is not so good as it was so a nice sized screen is helpful to me, whether it is a tablet format or a bit wrap around, not that bother but flat is cheaper of course.  I have had some petty big sat nav unit screens 7 inch and more I recall, did the job and nice and cheap.  

 

24cm is pretty close to 10", still.

The wife has a DVD nav system built into her CR-V stereo. It's basically a 2-DIN size unit, but it's actually built into the centre console instead of being slapped on over the top of it.

EV screens just look so amateurish... like they couldn't be bothered.

 

 

[wyx087]

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

I really like the Zoe's instruments and I do like the knows it has for temperature, air directing etc and will miss this when I move to a car such as a TESLA that does everything though the tablet

This is the only thing that bugs me. I never realised I sometimes want to adjust air vents until I wanted to make minor adjustment while driving on a twisty B road and AP couldn't reliably turn due to a stupid EU rule. Something about max turning angle. Of course, I left it until a straight bit of road where I can enable AP and fiddle with touchscreen air directions.

[J.R.]

You want to let your car drive itself while you take your eyes off the road to adjust air vents, have I understood that right?

 

Words fail me

 

I can adjust the drivers side and both the central air vents on my Yeti (and all the previous Octavias as well) without taking my eye (singular) off the road, I can operate all the vehicle controls in the same manner thanks to 100 years of safety improvements and ergonomic design, all gone out the window now with the LCD tea trays slapped on the dashboard and peoples desire to look at Twitter, Fessbook or whatever while on the move.

 

I dont even have my phone connected to the vehicle, it came with the Bluetooth set up and the replacement head unit also has it, I stop to make a call and if there is an incoming one I will stop later and ring them back.

 

I always set the satnav at a standstill and only look at it with fleeting glances, the larger 7" perhaps display is better and safer than the Tom Tit unit I had before, the only problem is the standard radio fitment is not shaded well enough from the sun, it has only become a problem since moving further South.

 

OK, I understand now, you have to use the touchscreen to adjust the airvents and cant do so safely while driving so have to use the auto-pilot or stop, that is bad design and a major safety risk.

Edited 16 June, 2023 by J.R.

[wyx087]

21 hours ago, J.R. said:

You want to let your car drive itself while you take your eyes off the road to adjust air vents, have I understood that right?

Lane centering is just that, keeps the car in the centre of the lane. Autopilot is basically adaptive cruise + lane centering.

There is vast difference between a good responsive touchscreen and a slow bad touch screen. The former wouldn't need taking eyes off road for long.

 

The eyes-off-road time isn't too different compared to normal air vents. Except with added assurance of ACC + lane centering to be extra safe. It can be safely done while driving, just doesn't feel safe enough for me to do it. Key is accuracy while on the road, to a lesser degree, it is the same for regular air vents. I rarely do minor adjustment of regular air vents either, only big strokes to move it out of the way whilst driving.

 

22 hours ago, J.R. said:

without taking my eye (singular) off the road

 

😜

[Ootohere]

 

 

[cheezemonkhai]

On 12/06/2023 at 11:24, Ttaskmaster said:

How much of that success is just people wanting the latest trending thing, though, especially in light of the various safety concerns over touchscreens?

Millions of people adapt to all sorts of new technology, but that doesn't mean it's the best technology... It often only proves that marketing strategies work.

 

I get a lot of fanboyism from the guys at work with EVs, but when I look at what they have to go through and spend all their time doing just in order to drive a car... A pushbike starts to look surprsingly attractive!

 

I believe EuroNCAP are mandating physical buttons for certain features if you want a 5 star rating….

 

I’m all for hiding config option etc away, but disabling auto steering/lane following, wiper speed, cabin temperatures etc should not need someone to take their eyes off the road.

[Ootohere]

 

^^^^

 

Sorry linked the wrong vid. 

But here was the one i meant to.  Lets hope Volvo are not manufacturing cars with the issue Alfa,s  of old had.

(Lots of cars have missed top / colour paint coats though where not really seen. eg Skoda.)

 

 

 

Edited 11 April by Rooted

[Winston_Woof]

On 15/06/2023 at 19:20, Ttaskmaster said:

 

What, this thing?

 

 

If you gave me that for free, I'd just sell it. Wouldn't even take it for a test drive.

 

 

can I just point out that the concept of a central dash/infotainment system is nothing new not is the idea of having nothing in front of the driver (ala Tesla not the above pic)