I'm looking for a bit of a sense check regarding my latest crazy motoring idea!

 

It would be useful to have another car available for general urban communting duties (maximum single journey would require a range around 100 miles).

 

We have a new Skoda Karoq (and a Mii and 2 older cars), but the Karoq is likely to be the main family car for the foreseeable future (hopefully at least 5 years like the Suzuki it replaced).

 

I've been looking round for something which would be a runaround for the whole family and as car prices are vastly inflated at the moment, choice / value is therefore limited.

 

I ideally want something inexpensive to run/maintain/insure, which is generally undemanding, safe and smallish.

 

I do not currently have a wall-box charger, but can park another car off-road, with convenient access to facilities (external socket) and I'm also in the process of exploring home EV charging installations. Apparently the home wiring is new enough not to present any issues.

 

Whilst I have experienced several Tesla's recently, I'm not in the position to purchase one as a second car, given even something second hand will be £25-30k and frankly the performance is well in excess of our needs.

 

Budget is around £10k.

 

I did however think an EV may be particularly suited for this role and my mind has turned to the Nissan Leaf, which based on research I understand is a very mature platform and known for reliability?

 

The original (2010-2017) cars are now pretty old and many of them have limited battery capacity, as they appear to suffer degradation owing to a lack of thermal management? 

 

Many of the older cars have a range <70 miles, which precludes consideration given our requirements, although despite this many low mileage examples remain in the £5-8k range.

 

The later generation Leaf (2018 ->) still lacks thermal battery management, so I understand isn't suited to daily multiple rapid charging/longer journeys, but the lower battery (40 kWh) model appears to have a genuine 120 (winter) and 160 (summer) range, which would appear ideal for our needs.

 

I gather the Leaf's charging technology (Chademo) is now outdated, but if the vast majority of charging was done at home (overnight) would be no particular limitation, given the car's intended use.

 

I would be looking at an appropriate electricity tariff for home charging overnight.

 

The Tekna models appeal from a tech perspective - leather, Bose, semi autonomous driving and the ability to remotely pre-warm / pre-cool the car whilst charging.

 

I've read numerous user reviews and actual Leaf owners seem very positive, whereas the mainstream motoring press is less so and typically directs you to something new, which is not a consideration given cost.

 

I have spotted a few 2019 40 kWh Tekna models and I understand drivetrain (motor and battery) warranty extends to 8 years / 100k miles, so is covered for a few years/miles yet.

 

For this kind of budget alternative conventional hatchbacks are generally older / higher mileage.

 

Whilst I've owned many (120+) cars over the years I am an EV newbie and therefore grateful for your thoughts on this latest motoring pipedream 👍

I can't add to the knowledge base right now as we're thinking on similar lines - just a little further down the track. 

Thanks for the post; I'll be following with great interest.

 

We owned a 40 kWh MK2 Leaf Tekna for just under 3 years. 
 

Real world range driving normally (rather than @ 50 / 60 mph to get a few extra miles) is just over 100 miles in the winter, we used the 1% of battery to 1 mile and it was pretty accurate. 
 

They are a decent car and if 100 miles will be enough then the Chademo network won’t be an issue, depending on the daily commute you may even get away with the supplied ‘granny charger’. 

The Renault Zoe is the best selling EV in Europe over the decade and I think for good reason.

 

Yes the Zoe is only a B segment car so not as roomy as the LEAF but as a consequence, and some better tech choices its range has been the best of small EVs.

 

Not much room for tall rear seat passengers, boot is OK at 330 litres.  Currently getting 240 miles of range, this reduces to as low as 160 miles in the depths of winter.

Lack of seat height adjustment bit of a pain on longer journeys.  Fastest AC charging of any EV, DC charging on those Zoe's that have it is slow compared to other EVs.

 

Done 14k miles in my ZE50 Riviera and only did my first DC charge yesterday which was a breeze.  Worcester to Southampton with full luggage for a cruise.   

 

Renault might survive Chinese/TESLA domination with its new relationship with Gelly but it looks like all other European HQ car companies are toast and unlikely to survive another decade without extreme EU protectionism.  

 

This might help.

 

Also, maybe a little over budget, but have you looked at the e-Up/Mii electric/Citigo-e? The prices of 3 year old cars are just over budget, genuine 120 winter range and 160 in summer, CCS charging which is more common than the Leaf Chademo and recharges relatively quickly on AC thanks to 36kWh battery and 7kW charging. Might be worth taking a look. 

Edited 16 July, 20232 yr by Luckypants

1 hour ago, Luckypants said:

This might help.

 

 

£4400, that is a bargain.

Will be interested to see the current range after any degradation but generally Renault batteries do not lose much especially if only AC charged, I would expect 5 to 10% so hopefully not far off 100 miles summer range and 70 miles winter range, note sure if these had heat pumps.

 

 

7 hours ago, lol-lol said:

The Renault Zoe is the best selling EV in Europe over the decade and I think for good reason.

 

Yes the Zoe is only a B segment car so not as roomy as the LEAF but as a consequence, and some better tech choices its range has been the best of small EVs.

 

Not much room for tall rear seat passengers, boot is OK at 330 litres.  Currently getting 240 miles of range, this reduces to as low as 160 miles in the depths of winter.

Lack of seat height adjustment bit of a pain on longer journeys.  Fastest AC charging of any EV, DC charging on those Zoe's that have it is slow compared to other EVs.

 

Done 14k miles in my ZE50 Riviera and only did my first DC charge yesterday which was a breeze.  Worcester to Southampton with full luggage for a cruise.   

 

Renault might survive Chinese/TESLA domination with its new relationship with Gelly but it looks like all other European HQ car companies are toast and unlikely to survive another decade without extreme EU protectionism.  

 

Very much appreciate the feedback regarding the Zoe 

 

Zoe is likely not for me, as range / charging speed aren't paramount, whereas low purchase price, comfort and a decent boot probably are.

 

Think I've narrowed my search to a 2018 -> Leaf 👍

5 hours ago, Luckypants said:

This might help.

 

Strangely I watched this yesterday - whilst I would always trust a Yorkshire man, it's definitely a Leaf I'm looking for 😁

3 hours ago, toot said:

Many thanks for the suggestion, but not keen on an Up! / Mii EV.

 

I've owned a Mii from new (was £7500 as a pre -reg) and whilst it is a great car,  I've had issues with the rear brakes sticking pretty much from six months old.

 

The only Up! I'd consider would either be a GTi (prices are very strong) or a TSi, which are great fun, but are a rare find and still too costly.

7 hours ago, Gizmo said:

We owned a 40 kWh MK2 Leaf Tekna for just under 3 years. 
 

Real world range driving normally (rather than @ 50 / 60 mph to get a few extra miles) is just over 100 miles in the winter, we used the 1% of battery to 1 mile and it was pretty accurate. 
 

They are a decent car and if 100 miles will be enough then the Chademo network won’t be an issue, depending on the daily commute you may even get away with the supplied ‘granny charger’. 

Very much appreciate the feedback - gives me confidence I am making the right choice 👍

Oui you, I see you, get your hands off my potential purchase. I'm also considering a 40 kWh Leaf Tekna in red, to replace our 24 kWh Leaf Tekna in red. The range is not the issue for our local use, we were going to keep the car until it's beyond economical repair. You say Chademo is outdated, but that is the exact reason I'm looking for another Leaf. Solely because I'm waiting to get Vehicle-to-Home installed, to use Leaf battery as home battery: https://www.indra.co.uk/v2h/

 

For £10-12k, Leaf 40 kWh is a solid choice, as local car that rarely go beyond home-range. You don't need to have it plugged in for pre-conditioning via the app. This feature should also be available in lower spec. The Bose sound system sucks, weaker base than Skoda Canton, slight improvement in clarity. It's night and day worse than no-brand Tesla.

 

 

Have you considered Hyundai Ioniq? It's more efficient than Leaf, it charges faster and it's on CCS. Despite only 28 kWh, it should be able to manage 100 miles. Downside is that 28 kWh version doesn't have remote app support. Up budget to £15k and the 38 kWh Ioniq and you'll get range to spare plus remote app support.

 

I would get Ioniq 38 kWh if I'm not locked into Chademo and wife needs a new car tomorrow.

Whilst collecting my Karoq from the local Skoda dealer I had a wander round the Mazda garage opposite and thought these looked pretty cheap.

 

Savage depreciation, although limited range.

 

Intriguing option though 🤔

 

MX-30 (AutoTrader)

 

 

On 20/07/2023 at 16:58, pinkpanther said:

Whilst collecting my Karoq from the local Skoda dealer I had a wander round the Mazda garage opposite and thought these looked pretty cheap.

 

Savage depreciation, although limited range.

 

Intriguing option though 🤔

 

MX-30 (AutoTrader)

 

 

 

I recently had a back to back test drive in both a Nissan Leaf and a Mazda MX 30.

 

This came as a surprise to me, but I had a strong preference for the Leaf, as it was quieter, smoother (more refined), quicker and easier to operate, despite being a considerably older platform.

 

The Leaf Satnav (and interior in general) is dated and dissapointingly the Bose was the worst premium ICE I'd ever heard, but I could manage with Android Auto.

 

The Mazda by comparison was fiddly, noisier, slower and generally a bit of a faff to use. 

 

The rear doors are also a right palava and ultimately a deal breaker.

 

All of which has convinced me I need to find an inexpensive Leaf 👍

15 hours ago, pinkpanther said:

 

I recently had a back to back test drive in both a Nissan Leaf and a Mazda MX 30.

 

This came as a surprise to me, but I had a strong preference for the Leaf, as it was quieter, smoother (more refined), quicker and easier to operate, despite being a considerably older platform.

 

The Leaf Satnav (and interior in general) is dated and dissapointingly the Bose was the worst premium ICE I'd ever heard, but I could manage with Android Auto.

 

The Mazda by comparison was fiddly, noisier, slower and generally a bit of a faff to use. 

 

The rear doors are also a right palava and ultimately a deal breaker.

 

All of which has convinced me I need to find an inexpensive Leaf 👍

I had one in mind (a private sale on AutoTrader) but it sold 😕

I've been monitoring the Leaf 40 kWh market. It feels like the market have hit rock bottom and prices are no longer decreasing.

 

Now that you've decided on a Leaf. A few things to keep in mind:

Buying second hand Leaf, it's worth getting a look via Leafspy. State of Health (SoH) degradation should be around 1-3% per year.

 

If you go for 2018 cars with smaller screen, you wouldn't need to pay £1.99 per month to pre-conditioning. https://www.speakev.com/threads/nissan-connect-pricing-post-free-3-year-complimentary-period.175585/#post-3399336

 

Checks and journey from another Leaf 40 buyer: https://www.speakev.com/threads/leaf-40-tekna-pre-purchase-checks.175427/

 

Same buyer had bought one with dud battery, worth doing similar checks when you test drive the car: https://www.speakev.com/threads/yg18xfk-avoid-leaf-40kwh-2-zero-high-mileage-dud.173915/

Used prices of my target EV's appear to rising, so I gave up on the idea and have taken over my daughter's 2019 SEAT MIi, as an urban run-around and added a 2018 1.2 Petrol FIAT 500 to the family fleet.

On 12/09/2023 at 15:09, pinkpanther said:

Used prices of my target EV's appear to rising, so I gave up on the idea and have taken over my daughter's 2019 SEAT MIi, as an urban run-around and added a 2018 1.2 Petrol FIAT 500 to the family fleet.

1k miles later and the FIAT 500 has grown on me to such a degree I'm now wondering if I can justify adding an Arbarth variant to the family fleet 🤔