Could this be a new clutch?

[911hillclimber]

Wifes' Citigo Monte Carlo.

Bought it new, 16K miles now, 66 reg.

She gets 60mpg and even I get 55 so 'carefully' driven.

no traffic driving, just shopping and a weekly good A road run to clear it's throat. Only had to replace 2 light bulbs. 

However...

 

She found getting into any gear a struggle today before setting off to the shops, and this has been happening every now and then over the last month. All gears awkward which suggests clutch dragging to me.

This is when 'cold' ie about 15/20 degC.

Box is lovely and smooth with engine off.

From new the box has the rattle when you change gear unless you are very very smooth and care to lift the clutch pedal, but I think this is a common irritation (thrust bearing??).

 

So, what are your thought please?

I presume the clutch is hydraulic so non adjustable.

Could this mean a new clutch coming our way?

 

Comments appreciated, thank you.

[EnterName]

13 hours ago, 911hillclimber said:

Wifes' Citigo Monte Carlo.

Bought it new, 16K miles now, 66 reg.

She gets 60mpg and even I get 55 so 'carefully' driven.

no traffic driving, just shopping and a weekly good A road run to clear it's throat. Only had to replace 2 light bulbs. 

However...

 

She found getting into any gear a struggle today before setting off to the shops, and this has been happening every now and then over the last month. All gears awkward which suggests clutch dragging to me.

This is when 'cold' ie about 15/20 degC.

Box is lovely and smooth with engine off.

From new the box has the rattle when you change gear unless you are very very smooth and care to lift the clutch pedal, but I think this is a common irritation (thrust bearing??).

 

So, what are your thought please?

I presume the clutch is hydraulic so non adjustable.

Could this mean a new clutch coming our way?

 

Comments appreciated, thank you.

When I first read your post, I assumed your clutch needed adjustment.

But as it's a hydraulic clutch, I suppose the first thing to do is check the hydraulic clutch mechanism is working properly, so when you press the pedal, the clutch lifts away.

After that, I'm wondering if there's a gearbox oil leak.

I don't know how catastrophic thrust bearing failure would manifest itself, but it seems unlikely on such a low mileage car, though it might have been an issue from new.

 

Those are just observations and ideas, I have no mechanical qualifications whatsoever.

Personally, I'd be off to my trusted garage to check out the problem and give me a diagnosis and estimate of cost to repair.

Edited 24 August, 2023 by EnterName

[911hillclimber]

Thank you for your reply to my question.

I am quite well versed in 'car maintenance' but tend to keep away from modern cars and working on them. Just disconnecting the battery seems to generate it's own list of issues!

 

Car will be driven today to the shops, will see what my wife says when she returns, but i do think it is a trip to a garage i trust, but that has recently been tricky to find!

There is so much slap-dash working practice about, seems nobody cares anymore.

My last encounter trying a new place was they left a liberal run/splashing of brake fluid over the engine of my Skoda superb after a fluid change, who would do that?

 

Still, have another in mind, at least have lots to chose from, even the Skoda dealer we bought it from!

I'm going there on Friday to get some touch-up paint, so perfect opportunity.

[EnterName]

If you're near South Birmingham, I can recommend Autovolks. (Just off Stratford road, on the border of Hall Green and Shirley.)

In my experience they can be trusted to do good work and are both helpful and knowledgeable.

 

[freemansteve]

I think we possibly might rule out the gearbox leaking oil - given it's all gear selections and only when cold, it could be a failing or broken clutch finger springs.

It could also be a simple hydraulic problem like a leaking master or slave cylinder, which gets masked as the car heats up.....

Do a search on the Up! owners forum; there's a lot of talk of this on there...

[911hillclimber]

Thank you all, but....

I took the warm car out yesterday and drove it badly.

By that I mean I slipped the clutch like a learner pulling away several time to 'clean' the face of the driven plate. Not to the point of a smelling clutch, but gave it some grief.

Neither of us drive this way, always super smooth and very measured pulling away.

 

anyway, acid test this morning, wife off to the shops in the cold car.

 

Started it. Snicked into gear just like it was new, and for all these years since, and drove a dream!

Drove it again some 6 hours later, just the same but with me driving, absolutely NO probs, just the usual rattling clutch release when you change gear (so irritating, car's only fault).

 

So, we will let sleeping dogs lye and see what the future brings. I am close to Birmingham, so that recommendation is appreciated, thank you.

[freemansteve]

Good news!

One of the features of weak or damaged finger springs is (I'm told) that it can make the mating surfaces non-co-planar, which means that you can effectively rub the mating surfaces down - for a while - but the problem may return. Or you can get debris that make the clutch drag, which can get eroded with a bit of slip.

 

I'm happy it's working, but reply back here in 5K miles with an update!

Edited 24 August, 2023 by freemansteve

[J.R.]

Its most likely to be a diaphragm clutch.

[freemansteve]

Yes, you don't see many clutches today that aren't diaphragm clutches on cars - many of the early Citigos/Up!s had problems with the fingers in the diaphragm, apparently.

[911hillclimber]

A week on and the car is still changing gear ok, but a few days ago it went awkward on start-up, but freed off almost immediately. Been perfect since.

We will wait until it get much worse, especially after this lot:

 

Asked 2 Skoda dealers local in Wolverhampton for an estimate to replace the clutch.

 

i used their email 'Request information etc' link on their sites.

Nothing, just 'we have your email'

WHY is it dealers invite you use their contact link then ignore it?

 

Maybe they only know how to arrange finance nowadays...

Or do not know how to change a Citigo clutch.

 

Local garage also seems put off to take the job on by quoting £999.40 includes everything (by that, VAT etc)

4.5 hours quoted at , say, £80/hour = £360.

How can a Citigo non dual mass clutch cost £640?

I've just bought a SACHS genuine heavy duty clutch 3 piece kit (even with special pinion spigot grease) with special light weight cover plate for my 1973 Porsche 911 for £370 deliverd to my door in 23 hours.

 

These Citigos must be something hard and special!

 

Where are all the real motor trade people nowadays gents?

[freemansteve]

Use a clutch specialist garage or ring round for more sensible local garages.

 

As I said, the most common problem for dragging clutch on early cars is bent or damaged clutch finger springs.

Replacing the clutch with the 200mm one (originally from the Polo) is the most favoured solution - see prices here:

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/repair-kit-clutch-complete-10151/skoda/citigo/citigo-2011/15995-1-0

 

[911hillclimber]

Quick up-date on the clutch in my wifes low miles Citigo, 6 years old now.

 

All working perfectly!

Left the clutch alone and the glitch has stayed away.

Can this be true, i always have car grief!

[bobupndown]

If its working fine leave it alone.

Time enough worrying about it if the problem returns. As it's just a car for local shopping runs a breakdown wouldn't be a disaster, as it may be on a car that you'd take on a continental holiday for example.

[911hillclimber]

Indeed!

Car covered for RAC recovery etc, so all good.

Interesting that 'episode' came and went which is always 'there' in the mind.

Time will tell, but could have spent £700 for nothing.

[J.R.]

On 09/09/2023 at 18:09, 911hillclimber said:

4.5 hours quoted at , say, £80/hour = £360.

How can a Citigo non dual mass clutch cost £640?

 

Because thats how they hide how much money they are really making or indeed need to make to remain viable, a lot more than £80 per hour, another clue is the refusal of most garages to fit customer supplied parts, the truly honest amongst them would say "OK but no warranty on the repair and our labour rate will be 40% higher"