1.5Tsi manual: still kangarooing when cold

[MP1983]

Hello,

 

does anyone else experience kangaroo (although not as extreme as initially before the software fix) when the car is cold? Mine does it during the first about 60 seconds of driving and is highly unpleasant especially if climbing (garage ramp). I am considering of returning the car.

[Hairy_Joe]

Nope, never experienced it.

[avi4tor]

Mine does it on the first start of the day.  I reverse out of my drive into a turning bay in my cul-de-sac, then as I pull forwards out of the turning bay it gives a slight hiccup - every time.  I'm experimenting with the revs and when I change up from 1st to 2nd to see if I can avoid it, but no success yet.

[Mark Hiscock]

Yes, my car still exhibits this "feature" and I have learned to live with it.

 

I asked the garage to investigate and they couldn't reproduce it (no surprise). So I just take it to be a quirk of the engine managing its emissions at cold start. I just wait 30 seconds or so before pulling away first thing in the morning.

[Hairy_Joe]

12 hours ago, Hairy_Joe said:

Nope, never experienced it.

 

Just thinking, We have some maneuvering to do before getting up to speed and it could be over a minute before actually driving from starting.

 

That probably eliminates the issue for us.

[MP1983]

I read somewhere that its emissions related - upon start the engine uses lean mixture to warm up the catalyst faster and this causes the jerking. I sent a letter to the shop but I expect them to pretend its ok.

[avi4tor]

This morning I kept the revs higher than was necessary and the hiccuping occurred 50 yards further down the road.  It was also barely perceptible.

[MP1983]

7 hours ago, avi4tor said:

This morning I kept the revs higher than was necessary and the hiccuping occurred 50 yards further down the road.  It was also barely perceptible.

When I rev it harder the kangaroo somewhat fades but this is not a good practice on a cold engine. Interesting, but I get a feeling that the longer the car has been sitting, the more pronounced the effect is (maybe placebo).

[Ootohere]

Ridiculous that after 2019 there should have been any turned out with issues.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/446820-15-sel-first-gear-issue/page/116

 

[PilsnerUrquel]

I have a 2021 and I've learned to live with it. I just idle for a minute before leaving, so the rev counter drops down 2 times, then I don't have the kangarooing.

 

I've also learned to live with the rumbling sounds and jerking sensations of the "active cylinder technology".

It's a weird car.

[Pjone]

Potentially not related, but I had this with a 2019 Audi A3 (1.5 TFSI).  Garage (Main Dealer) didn't want to know, so I went to Motoring Ombudsman.  The ombudsman ruled in my favour but by that point I'd gotten sick of it and traded in the car (back to Audi). 

[nidza]

On 23/09/2023 at 12:42, MP1983 said:

Hello,

 

does anyone else experience kangaroo (although not as extreme as initially before the software fix) when the car is cold? Mine does it during the first about 60 seconds of driving and is highly unpleasant especially if climbing (garage ramp). I am considering of returning the car.

Yes.

 

January 2021. 
 

It also has interesting whooshing noise from the gearbox. Disappear after clutch depress. 
 

We haven’t bother fixing it. Throttle is anyway quite strange in low rpm, has an extremely long lag on command. Kangarooing must have been somehow related. It is much less pronounced when AC off. 

[MP1983]

I also learn to live with it but will sell the car sooner than planned. Its funny that you have to sit and burn fuel in order for VW to catch their WLTP target. Learned my lesson, stay away of VAG production.

 

EDIT: just saw the other thread which I believe explains a good amount of the issue. Thx!

Edited 7 October, 2023 by MP1983

[cri1410sti]

On 23/09/2023 at 13:42, MP1983 said:

Hello,

 

does anyone else experience kangaroo (although not as extreme as initially before the software fix) when the car is cold? Mine does it during the first about 60 seconds of driving and is highly unpleasant especially if climbing (garage ramp). I am considering of returning the car.

 

 

here is the explanation of the cause of kangaroo, it is in the Bosch Motronic documentation..

Please check the "Motronic engine management" edition 1999, page-49-50.
About engine warm-up and catalytic converter heating. There is the KANGAROO!

 

 

[Ootohere]

Skoda had this out to Skoda Dealership employees to have them explain Euro 6 1.2 TSI,s running rough on start up was / is perfectly normal and OK.

Odd though only some run like sh!te.  The ones that are smooth must be faulty.

 

Any old guff to suit all old buyer, driver, customer.

Never accept that they had to manipulate testing, an with 1.5 TSI ACT to get the WLTP results as they were failing as they were pre WLTP engine management yet those vehicles ran fine.

[cri1410sti]

2 hours ago, Rooted said:

Skoda had this out to Skoda Dealership employees to have them explain Euro 6 1.2 TSI,s running rough on start up was / is perfectly normal and OK.

Odd though only some run like sh!te.  The ones that are smooth must be faulty.

 

Any old guff to suit all old buyer, driver, customer.

Never accept that they had to manipulate testing, an with 1.5 TSI ACT to get the WLTP results as they were failing as they were pre WLTP engine management yet those vehicles ran fine.

 

So a real fix will be a good remap from someone that knows what is doing, not just copy-paste a firmware from tuning file DB.

I saw in my tests that in cold engine- a lambda of 14.7-14.8 is used and also a very high ignition spark retard (from -6 to -22).

 

1.-engine just started

 

 

2.-catalyst at 200c

 

 

3.-catalyst just reached to operating temp >375c

 

 

 

4. -And below is ~normal operation, after the catalyst heated to >375c..

from here (after 60-70 seconds from engine cold start, and the idle is below 800 rpm) the kangaroo should be gone or minimum

 

 

 

If the lambda will be ~14 and the advance will be  around zero, then the kangaroo will be gone or around minimum.

 

You need to set lambda ~14 because most of the air-fuel mixture can condense on the piston/cylinder walls and will not reach to the spark zone to fully ignite.

 

This is one of the direct cylinder wall guide injection problem in cold engine and low rpm.

 

-one of the negative things will be a slower catalyst heating, more time to reach >375c 

 

-the other thing will be a slightly  bigger fuel consumption in the first 2-3 min after cold start, and i think that all the people can ignore this if the kangaroo is fixed

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Customers & Owners should not need to pay more and Void a Warranty or Extended Warranty with non-factory approved Software.

 

VW Group that had to do Recalls and apply software updates that are just so so should be called out by the Motoring Press / Journalists.

Actually by the DfT / DVSA in the UK as well.

 

If everyone was not so much in VW,s pocket, like Haymarket Media Group or other publishers.  

Edited 11 April by Rooted

[cri1410sti]

checking from time to time , waiting for a miracle form VW side (new firmware update) ..

 

 

https://vag-flashinfo.de/site/index?partno=05E906018CK