When it comes to double-deck buses, they need to have a low and pretty flat floor to enable handicapped people to be able to access them in wheelchairs, so there is no available space beneath the floor for batteries. On single deckers they are typically stored above the ceiling and hence why there are videos online of these on fire with what appears to be fireworks coming from the roof area and raining down on the ground around the bus, looking the display of a roman candle as can be seen in the video below.

In the case of this London bus, the batteries are located behind and beneath the rear seat, which is where the Mercedes Benz diesel engine is normally located. They cannot be fitted above the ceiling of the top deck as the weight would mean that they would fail the 28-degree tilt test that all double-deck buses must pass. This test must be carried out with sand bags strapped onto the seats on the upper deck to simulate the top deck being full up with passengers

 

 

 

Edited 12 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

Your bus tilt picture isn’t the UK.

 

I really don’t know where you search to find so much electrified FUD material.  I imagine if you put similar effort into ICE… 

14 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Your bus tilt picture isn’t the UK.

 

I really don’t know where you search to find so much electrified FUD material.  I imagine if you put similar effort into ICE… 

Haha, trust me when I say this but it is 100% true, I don't search for anything, it just appears out the ether. I belong to many groups etc and so there is always plenty of automotive news appearing in my inbox. 

I also have zero agenda against EVs other than I think it is wrong to mandate that in 2035 all new cars must be electric when we still actually have so much to learn about their true impact on the planet. 

I have no problem with people electing to opt for one and I welcome people's freedom of choice, it is a free world is it not? 

Edited 19 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

5 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Your bus tilt picture isn’t the UK.

Relevance? The UK does do exactly the same style of stability test on double-deckers.

50 minutes ago, Paws4Thot said:

Relevance? The UK does do exactly the same style of stability test on double-deckers.

Quite right and here is a London Transport RT bus undergoing the tilt test with nothing but ropes to act as a safety system if it fails to pass the required standard of 28 degrees tilt, and the ropes can be seen to perfectly slack and the upper deck is fully loaded with sand bags to simulate passengers on the top deck only and then the test inspector actually boards the bus and goes on the top deck and walks along it while it is tilted, in perfect safety. I only used that particular photo as it was one that showed a modern bus, the videos all seem to show old LT buses and they are of poor quality.

 

Tilt test (vehicle safety test) - Wikipedia

 

(71) Archive: Bus Tilt Testing - YouTube

Edited 19 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

In  'Huge numbers'.   So it must be so!

 

 

 

Pure clickbait in my view, no supporting evidence of the numbers? 

 

Interesting point, they mentioned the GM parcel van fires and GM are supposed to have said that it may be due to an oil leak? That sounds odd to me, it has been claimed before by members here that EV's don't have any oil, therefore servicing is less. Also, oil leaks have been blamed for fires on ICE vehicles, where it drips onto hot exhausts etc, that's feasible, but on earth is getting so hot on an EV that if indeed there is oil, that it catches fire, I think this is pure BS.

 

Did anyone even notice that there have been no less than 3 electric buses caught fire in less than 14 days in London, prompting the withdrawal from service of their electric buses while checks are carried out?

 

Now here's the thing, out of the 3, 1 was burnt right down to chassis and I didn't see any video of the actual fire, but it is fair to say that the batteries were involved in the fire but maybe not the cause. The second one was in Wimbledon and that judging by the location and way the flames were behaving, the batteries may or may not have started it, but were involved in the fire. The third, was in a garage in Putney was a single deck bus, the batteries are located on the roof at the back and the fire was behind the front grill at the front, so is unlikely the fire was caused by the batteries.

 

So sorry to burst anyone bubble if they thought I was totally opposed to EV's and that they were always the cause of fires, I'm, not anti EV at all.

Edited 27 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

^^^ Well you say they have no oil, but then i could link the Video of Kate changing oil on a Tesla.    Which members claimed they had no oil? 

 

The gadgy says that fire risk is putting people off, (hesitating)  like range.   Well is it really, and as for 66 2022 vans recalled, holy camoly. 

So were these on trial?  Was that their total production? 

Were the Chevy Bolt recalled and destroyed and replaced, or just checked?  Just because he talks about the cost to replace.

 

There is an issue not just with clickbait but people knowing a little, or a little of wrong info. 

 

@3.30

 

 

Aaa Batteries replaced.

 

 

 

Edited 27 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

Oh I can't recall at the moment, but it has been pointed out on a couple of occasions in relation to overall costs of running an EV v ICE. Anyway, it still begs the question of what it was that was so hot for an oil leak on these GM vans to cause a fire, it has been claimed that EV's are so much more efficient that there is hardly any heat generated and hence why they use electric for heating and its negative effect on range.

Coolant & Oil. & electricity.

 

 

 

 

"don't need to change engine oil"

becomes

"no oil"

 

Be sure to add more "maybe", "may or may not " wording so that nothing can be traced back to you. But still do mention all those "maybe" unrelated fires so the uncertainty towards EV lingers in people's mind.

4 hours ago, Rooted said:

^^^ Well you say they have no oil, but then i could link the Video of Kate changing oil on a Tesla.    Which members claimed they had no oil? 

 

The gadgy says that fire risk is putting people off, (hesitating)  like range.   Well is it really, and as for 66 2022 vans recalled, holy camoly. 

So were these on trial?  Was that their total production? 

Were the Chevy Bolt recalled and destroyed and replaced, or just checked?  Just because he talks about the cost to replace.

 

There is an issue not just with clickbait but people knowing a little, or a little of wrong info. 

 

@3.30

 

 

Aaa Batteries replaced.

 

 

 

Precisely my point, pure clickbait 👍 There is no video evidence of the traction battery causing the fires, or even being involved that I could see in the video.

Edited 27 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

25 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

"don't need to change engine oil"

becomes

"no oil"

 

Be sure to add more "maybe", "may or may not " wording so that nothing can be traced back to you. But still do mention all those "maybe" unrelated fires so the uncertainty towards EV lingers in people's mind.

OK, clever clogs, I always knew that there has to some oil to lubricate the reduction gears, but cay you please explain to what the point was that the GM spokesman was making about their electric van fires could have been causes by an oil leak? For that to happen, something was very hot that the oil was dripping onto, yes or no? If yes, then what was it, EV are thermally very efficient are they not??

Could it possibly be that the spokesperson was trying to deflect attention, knowing that it was possible for an engine fire to started in this fashion with ICE vehicles.

 

Geez, on this flipping occasion I'm actually defending EV's and yet you're still attacking.

Efficient does not equal to zero waste heat.  Imagine putting a very large bowl of water into microwave, heat it for 1 hour, how hot is this going to get? That's equivalent the amount of waste heat energy density running EV on motorway for 30min. (large bowl roughly size of motor, 1 kW microwave and 2 kW waste heat, 90% efficient 20 kW constant driving demand)

 

 

23 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Efficient does not equal to zero waste heat.  Imagine putting a very large bowl of water into microwave, heat it for 1 hour, how hot is this going to get? That's equivalent the amount of waste heat energy density running EV on motorway for 30min. (large bowl roughly size of motor, 1 kW microwave and 2 kW waste heat, 90% efficient 20 kW constant driving demand)

 

 

Then that is surely enough heat to heat the car's interior, is it not? If so, why don't they make use of that heat for that purpose. I see lots of people saying that they consume about 2KWh of energy from their battery to heat their car, and many of you just seem to use heated seats and maybe the heated steering wheel sparingly because anything else just eats away at your range. All very confusing.

Edited 27 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

Some of them certainly do heat scavenging. Eg. Tesla:

Explanation of Tesla's "octovalve": https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/deep-looks-into-tesla-model-y-s-octovalve

 

I hear the new BMW i5 does have heat scavenging. Legacy auto are slowly catching up. Although the i5 still built on ICE platform with poor interior space and 1.6m bonnet without any storage underneath. Under the bonnet is a huge mess of coolant tubes to achieve similar thing to Octovalve.

Hmm, some being the operative word.

Most of us just drive the thinks and expect some sort of Corporate responsibility and honesty from manufacturers.

CEO,s and spokespeople's actual Engineering qualifications might be Zero, unlike Martin Winterkorn who was the Engineers Engineer and turns out as a reason for not being responsible was fooled by junior engineers.  Vorsprung durch technik. 'Das Auto'  Selectively Deaf Dumb and Blind.

The Head of VW North America 2007- 2010 was Stefan Jacoby, predicted to take over as the head of VW who went to head Geely, than headed GM Global. (Maybe even the whistle blower.) Also laterly  McLaren Group.    Started at VW, part of tye family, went to Mitsubishi, back to VW.  Insider / Consultant, Cuckoo in the nest....

 

 

Martin Winterkorn, the Engineer that looked at every other manufacturers products in minute detail but never noticed the Defeat Device / software bought from Bosch that others sneaked into the TDI,s he signed off.

 

 

They were caught cheating after the billions into R&D Audi Diesel Hybrids Endurance racing.

Now we get Fat / Heavy complex PHEV or Mild Hybrid Diesels from them. Premium prices and all about the WLTP regime results more than actual efficiency real world and fuel / energy saving.

 

 

 

 

Edited 28 January, 20242 yr by Rooted

I also hope for and expect honesty and integrity from such people. Sadly though it is not always what we get though, for example look at, The Post Office, Horizon and Fujitsu.

 

The analysis presented here is very sobering.

 

Edited 2 February, 20242 yr by xman

https://youtu.be/AIXTP-TgPEw?t=634

Just relevant as in about the subject of fires. 

Maybe relevant to EV,s and fires. I know nothing..  As it is my body is donated to science but i am not against cremation. 

 

 

 

Very interesting but they are rich peoples play things and are the type of cars that I think should be banned on the roads as nobody needs that kind of power and just imagine how high their emissions are.

Ban those air shows. What a waste of fuel and that is not just the aircraft, that is the spectators.

Ban Private Planes, Hobbiests, Speed  events/ Motor vehicles offroading for leisure/ Power boats, all Motorsport, Motorcycles over 250 cc etc etc. 

Ploughing matches / tractor collecting, Motorhomes, huge motorhomes, horse boxes etc.

11 minutes ago, Rooted said:

Ban those air shows. What a waste of fuel and that is not just the aircraft, that is the spectators.

Ban Private Planes, Hobbiests, Speed  events/ Motor vehicles offroading for leisure/ Power boats, all Motorsport, Motorcycles over 250 cc etc etc. 

Ploughing matches / tractor collecting, Motorhomes, huge motorhomes, horse boxes etc.

You know what, I would not be surprised if it came down to almost that over the years. I'm talking about the travelling to and from such shows as there will still be a requirement for such planes etc but I think that such events will be strictly controlled and filmed live and streamed via internet to spectators on pay per view basis just to reduce the carbon footprints of these events.