1 hour ago, Rooted said:

Just relevant as in about the subject of fires. 

Maybe relevant to EV,s and fires. I know nothing..  As it is my body is donated to science but i am not against cremation. 

 

 

 

As to if the Nitrogen would extinguish a EV battery fire, I don't for sure, but I doubt it in the same way as CO2 can't manage it either because the batteries, once they are in thermal runaway status will produce their own oxygen. It might however reduce the severity of a fire, as there might not be enough oxygen to support the rest of the burning. That said of course, the CO2 systems onboard the car carrying ships failed to do that, so a good chance nitrogen will be the same result?

Today it was announced that it was indeed an EV (Porsche) that started the fire onboard the Felicity Ace in 2022 and lead to it going down with all of its cargo and a lawsuit has been filed against Volkswagen.

 

MOL and Allianz take Volkswagen to court over sinking of Felicity Ace car carrier - Splash247

Felicity Ace

 

 

3 hours ago, Rooted said:

 

 

Oh, so Geoff buys cars has also reported on this as well then. Now we have to wait for the report on the Fremantle Highway, which is highly likely to result in another lawsuit against Volkswagen.

Edited 7 March, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

The reason for law suit may be because there is a known fault with the battery packs. This is a recall notice for Porsche Taycan’s, read the second to last page, description of defect: 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V840-4026.PDF

Hyundai also had similar battery recall, also due to fire risk: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56156801

The commonality is that both those known battery fault recalls are manufactured by LG chem. 

 

But also the fire fighting procedure robustness for shipping world need bolstering. And car parks. 

24 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The reason for law suit may be because there is a known fault with the battery packs. This is a recall notice for Porsche Taycan’s, read the second to last page, description of defect: 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V840-4026.PDF

Hyundai also had similar battery recall, also due to fire risk: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56156801

The commonality is that both those known battery fault recalls are manufactured by LG chem. 

 

But also the fire fighting procedure robustness for shipping world need bolstering. And car parks. 

Hmm, I'm not so sure, reading the description of the fault it states the following :-

Description of the Cause : The root cause is still under investigation. The current analysis suggests that multiple charging events above the upper voltage limit can degrade battery cells and cell-walls and increase the risk of internal short circuits 

 

All the cars on board the ship were brand new and could not have been subjected to the multiple charging events, and also as they also state charging above the upper voltage limit. If they are new cars, then they would have only been exposed to the charge cycle once?

 

As to the fire fighting procedure robustness needing bolstering, you certainly are not kidding, we still have so much to learn about this technology before we can really view it in the same fashion as we can with ICE vehicles.

Edited 8 March, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Hmm, I'm not so sure, reading the description of the fault it states the following :-

Description of the Cause : The root cause is still under investigation. The current analysis suggests that multiple charging events above the upper voltage limit can degrade battery cells and cell-walls and increase the risk of internal short circuits 

 

All the cars on board the ship were brand new and could not have been subjected to the multiple charging events, and also as they also state charging above the upper voltage limit. If they are new cars, then they would have only been exposed to the charge cycle once?

Not so sure about what exactly? 

 

Shipping company have pinned down to the electric vehicle, they are suing Porsche/VW. There must be solid basis for this law suit other than "because your car burnt down my ship". 

 

Porsche have known about defects with certain batteries. They have done an analysis and what you've quoted is result of their analysis ("suggests"). But there's no wording that ruled out this defect manifest itself earlier in life. 

 

"Description of the Defect : Certain Taycan high-voltage batteries experience short circuits within the battery modules, which can lead to thermal events and in some cases fires."

 

I'm not sure that the assumed failure mode is as Porsche think it is, read the read bit I highlighted in red again and ask yourself, would you expect a new car, straight out of the factory and loaded onto a ship would have been A/ charged multiple times, B/ exposed to over voltage charging?

 

You have to assume that the battery would have been charged in the factory and that the chargers had all been tested and not subject to higher output voltages that would damage the batteries fitted to their cars?

 

I'm just taking everything that they have written in their recall notice at face value, it is their recall, their car, their wording so how does a "new" car get multiple charging events at chargers that are exceeding the upper voltage limits?

 

That recall notice is aimed at cars already supplied to customers, and those cars would have had multiple charging events.

Edited 8 March, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

I agree. Porsche analysis may not have the correct conclusion on the root cause. 

 

But remember the recall is separate from the shipping incident, unless the burnt down vehicle VIN is in the recall notice. I posted it because I suspect it's part of the reason for the law suit. Now, after a few years, LG chem battery during that time appear to be problematic. 

Definitely not an EV 😛 

 

https://www.speakev.com/threads/fossil-fuel-ambulance-catches-fire.184189/

Great comments:

 

Quote

Good thing they had the presence of mind to take the oxygen cylinders off early doors…well before the doors were blown off

 

Quote

Of course it was an EV! How could a vehicle powered by burning flammable liquid possibly catch fire? Next you’ll be telling me that gas stoves cause more cooking fires than microwaves!

 

 

 

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Definitely not an EV 😛 

 

https://www.speakev.com/threads/fossil-fuel-ambulance-catches-fire.184189/

Great comments:

 

 

 

 

 

Nope, that was a diesel for sure the body work was more than likely fibreglass which would account for the way the fire took hold so quickly and gave all of that rich black smoke and the explosions were possibly the tyres blowing up. As the comments said, it will be interesting to see what Geoff buys cars makes of it, hopefully he will also agree that it was not an EV.  Say what you like about Geoff, he is normally pretty fair and if he makes a mistake, the next video he puts out will normally correct his mistake, unlike the MSM.

 

A bit disturbing though that they make ambulances in such a fashion that such a fire could spread so quickly.

Edited 7 April, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

There will be statistics for how many Ambulances catch fire in the UK when in Service, and how many Fire Engines, and Police Vehicles while not involved in a road crash /  accident .

That will also maybe show Police BMW,s. 

Correct, there will be statistics for them and many more things, but will we ever be able to get access to them, that is the question.

Mail on line, running an article, yes they can get statistics. They have a whole story on an ambulance fire. The one we are talking about.

Risks with the gasses carried.  They will be carried in the BEV vehicles as well when they are out and about.

 

In Wales 11 years ago there were questions needing answers, and before and since. 

I find the whole thing shocking and to think that the same situation appears to be going on today, these are vehicles that are supposed to emergency response, designed to carry extremely vulnerable people who could not escape if they had to without other peoples assistance, do the authorities have zero compassion?  

11 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Nope, that was a diesel for sure the body work was more than likely fibreglass which would account for the way the fire took hold so quickly and gave all of that rich black smoke and the explosions were possibly the tyres blowing up. As the comments said, it will be interesting to see what Geoff buys cars makes of it, hopefully he will also agree that it was not an EV.  Say what you like about Geoff, he is normally pretty fair and if he makes a mistake, the next video he puts out will normally correct his mistake, unlike the MSM.

 

A bit disturbing though that they make ambulances in such a fashion that such a fire could spread so quickly.

Sure, the black smoke couldn't possibly be diesel..... 🤞

How many fatalities are there in UK ambulances that have caught fire?   How many in Police cars in the UK?   BMW diesels or others. 

Edited 8 April, 20242 yr by Rooted

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Sure, the black smoke couldn't possibly be diesel..... 🤞

Pretty sure, the fire never really gave out black smoke until it reached the actual ambulance body as can be seen clearly in the video.

 

For it to be diesel, there would need to a fuel leak and the fire to on the ground, but there is no sign of fire low down or on the ground at the rear of the vehicle when the black smoke started being emitted. There was some evidence however that some diesel might have leaked out at the rear later in the video, but that could also have been burning fibre glass falling from the body?

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Pretty sure, the fire never really gave out black smoke until it reached the actual ambulance body as can be seen clearly in the video.

 

For it to be diesel, there would need to a fuel leak and the fire to on the ground, but there is no sign of fire low down or on the ground at the rear of the vehicle when the black smoke started being emitted. There was some evidence however that some diesel might have leaked out at the rear later in the video, but that could also have been burning fibre glass falling from the body?

At least that’s one patient that won’t have complained about the ambulance not being warm enough 😏

Another burning vehicle, when you have lived in P1key central for mots of your life and also France for 19 Réveillons and quatorze Juillets one more burning vehicle becomes banal, I did get very excited by the frenzied spinning of the ornamental windmills though 🤣

Edited 8 April, 20242 yr by J.R.

32 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Another burning vehicle, when you have lived in P1key central for mots of your life and also France for 19 Réveillons and quatorze Juillets one more burning vehicle becomes banal, I did get very excited by the frenzied spinning of the ornamental windmills though 🤣

If they had an electric car i wonder if they could be used to charge it?

A battery recycling plant ablaze.

 

http://fenixbatteryrecycling.com

 

 

Any future planning applications for Battery Recycling Premises might only be approved for locations a bit isolated from other building and not near residential properties.

 

 

 

 

 

It does show the ferocity of these batteries once they catch fire, with the plant still burning on day 2.

 

Incidently I came across this video which was commissioned by the UK government back in September 2006 on the e spread in car parks, underground and also in multi-storey car parks, the year before the Kings Dock car park was completed, which had the devastating fire in 2017. The fire in that case was started by a 16-year-old diesel Land Rover, and by that time there were over 227,373 hybrid and PHEV cars sold and registered here in the UK and a very high probability that there were quite a few parked in the Liverpool car park and thus contributed to the huge temperatures that destroyed the building fabric, and we already know that Lithium burns far hotter than either petrol or diesel, thus melting the steel reinforcements in the concrete floors.

 

In the Luton fire there would have been far more Hybrids and PHEV and also BEV cars involved in the blaze, even though it was once again a diesel car that started it.

 

 

 

 

 

Luton Airport: 'Car park fire turned my life upside down' - BBC News

 

Let,s hope Politicians, Government and Government Agencies and Local Authorities, regulators and the likes are learning from these incidents.