Just a wee story / option for anyone who's been told their discs need replacing:

 

Despite having had a pre-MOT check and then serviced, I was caught like a rabbit in headlights when the MOT centre called to say the car had failed due to warped discs. So what do you do?

 

The easy option is to ask the centre, in this case a fast-fit centre,  to replace the rear discs and pads. If you're willing to part with over £300 that is. Another option is to take the car to Skoda who in my case wanted £372 to replace them. Another option is to go to local garages who in my case were wanting £430 to change them. Hmm, I don't think so.

 

I'm advised that with an MOT failure you're allowed to drive the car home and up to 10 days before you can have a free re-test. I'm allowed to drive the car to have it repaired and back to the MOT test. I chose to drive back home and have time to think.

 

The parts from named brands such as Bosch and Brembo etc came to around £115 so does it cost £200 and above for labour?  I asked several Fast-Fit centres what was their fitting charge if I supplied the parts? All of them said they were unable to do this as they couldn't provide a warranty. OK, I don't want your warranty - how much? They said they were unable to offer me that service. In most cases they were supplying discs from manufacturers I'd never heard of ( cheap as chips ? ). Then I had a brain wave... buy the parts from Halfords online, have them delivered to the store and get Halfords autocentre to fit them 👍.   Great theory...  " Sorry but we can only fit parts supplied by us."  But it's the same parts? " Sorry, no can do."  What about local garages? There were a few who would accept me supplying the parts but all wanted at least 3wks notice. Obviously that wasn't an option unless I could do without my car for 3wks and pay for another MOT.

 

But then I came across a service I had no idea existed. Europarts was one of the lowest priced suppliers, but they now also have a service where they can deliver the parts to a named garage on their list. You buy the parts from Europarts and then you pay the garage direct. So I gave that a go. You enter your postcode and up pops the nearest 20 odd garages on their list. In my case I was quoted from £66 - £180 labour. I selected the most convenient garage who were charging £72. I wasn't confident it'd all work smoothly but it did. All garages were able to fit the parts within 48hr of me ordering them. ( a few were 24hr if the parts were in stock at their local Europarts centre ).

 

The parts with a discount code came to £107. I handed over £70 and was searching for coins when the guy said forget it. ( garages always prefer cash ). And that's it. Car has passed it's MOT, it now has Bosch rather than the OEM chedder cheese discs and pads and it cost £177 in total.

 

So if you're after using good quality parts and don't have the facility or skills to do the job yourself, the Europarts option is defo worth a consideration. It was certainly a hell of a lot cheaper than using local / main dealer / fast-fit centres.

Edited 31 October, 20232 yr by kodiaqsportline

The burning question is - did those rear discs and pads really need replacing?

No information of miles covered - but a three year old vehicle (1st MOT?) - I'm finding that a little difficult to swallow.

Given the vehicle had passed a pre-test and had a service, I'd be asking for a second opinion.

8 minutes ago, Warrior193 said:

The burning question is - did those rear discs and pads really need replacing?

No information of miles covered - but a three year old vehicle (1st MOT?) - I'm finding that a little difficult to swallow.

Given the vehicle had passed a pre-test and had a service, I'd be asking for a second opinion.

Yep. Me as well. Brakes are a favourite to con people into parting with their hard earned. 'It's a safety issue innit sir/ madam'. 

Customer can't actually see the disk or pad for themselves and take the testers word for it and stump up because they don't want to be without their car and are led to believe things could be worse. 

Did it actually fail the MOT on the rear discs Kodiaqsportsline? What did the failure certificate say?

 

Notwithstanding that I think you have found a very good solution and thanks for sharing it, it deserves to be promoted.

1 hour ago, @Lee said:

Customer can't actually see the disk or pad for themselves and take the testers word for it and stump up because they don't want to be without their car and are led to believe things could be worse. 

 

But they can nowadays with the open style of alloy wheels, look how many people complain that the discs are rusting in the unswept areas where it really makes no difference, look how many people obsess about repainting their calipers, its a shame they dont make the same scrutiny of the working surface of the disc and the pad thickness when given the guff that their brakes are 75% worn out.

 

In fact its a pity that peoples default position is not that everything that comes out of the mouth of a service receptionist is a line until proved otherwise.

 

That was not aimed at you Kodiaqsportsline but a general comment.

Europarts or Eurocarparts?

23 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

But they can nowadays with the open style of alloy wheels, look how many people complain that the discs are rusting in the unswept areas where it really makes no difference, look how many people obsess about repainting their calipers, its a shame they dont make the same scrutiny of the working surface of the disc and the pad thickness when given the guff that their brakes are 75% worn out.

 

In fact its a pity that peoples default position is not that everything that comes out of the mouth of a service receptionist is a line until proved otherwise.

 

That was not aimed at you Kodiaqsportsline but a general comment.

 

How many people, as a percentage, do you think would be able to spot if a disk is warped or how much  meat is left on a pad in terms of mileage from looking through a wheel? Even I'd have to take the wheel off to be sure and I've changed a few in my time. 

 

2 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

The burning question is - did those rear discs and pads really need replacing?

No information of miles covered - but a three year old vehicle (1st MOT?) - I'm finding that a little difficult to swallow.

Given the vehicle had passed a pre-test and had a service, I'd be asking for a second opinion.

 

Oh you bet they did - they were knackered. I wrote ( kodiaq section ) a few months ago  that I suspected something may be up as the brakes had a pulsing feeling and suspected they were on their way out.

 

The question is why didn't the pre-MOT ( same place as MOT took place ) or the 3yr service pick this up? Pre-MOT said they'd likely be an advisory, the service made no mention of the discs themselves but said pads were 75% worn and recommended chaning them b4 next service.

 

Driving home this afternoon just showed what a difference the new brakes made - no judder but something I hadn't appreciated, no noise!  I'd just got used to the rubbing noise generated when the car was braking, never thought it much of an issue. In fact I thought it may have been the fronts. Apparently the fronts are fine.

 

55 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Did it actually fail the MOT on the rear discs Kodiaqsportsline? What did the failure certificate say?

 

Notwithstanding that I think you have found a very good solution and thanks for sharing it, it deserves to be promoted.

 

Service brake excessively fluctuating Offside Rear [1.2.1 (e)]

 

And yes, you're right,  it is Eurocarparts and not Europarts.

 

The day after I bought the parts, CarParts4Less proved even cheaper if you used a code which reduced the price by 23% taking them down to £90 !!! That's unbelievable.  CarParts4Less are the same company - EuroCarParts by another name but that website doesn't offer booking the garage online service.  Could I have bought from CarParts4Less and then went to the same garage direct without booking online? Probably, but I'm not sure I'd have been seen within 48hr and for £17 I wasn't taking the chance.

 

Apart from trying to help others save a few quid. what the above shows just how much Joe Public is being taken for a ride. The Quick-fit centres especially. This nonsense re: they can't fit parts which aren't supplied by them - oh yeh?

 

Sorry about the long reply but it's not the whole story. At first the guy at my local National Tyres said he'd charge approx £90 labour if I supplied the parts but when I went to book it, I guess it was the gaffer on reception and he seemed quite annoyed, asking me to point out the bloke who gave me the quote.  The guys at Halfords - when he said they couldn't warrant other peoples parts ( including Halfords ! ) I reminded him that a few years back I bought tyres from Camskill and they charged me £13 a corner to fit them. He just shrugged his shoulders.

 

I've plenty of time on my hands so can shop around but I do feel for those who're compelled to pay whatever price they've been quoted. 

Edited 31 October, 20232 yr by kodiaqsportline

I had not seen your previous postings regarding noise and pulsing under braking - It remains a concern that the rear discs, which would normally provide very little braking effort except under ESP conditions, have warped - have underlying causes for this been checked?  

10 hours ago, @Lee said:

How many people, as a percentage, do you think would be able to spot if a disk is warped or how much  meat is left on a pad in terms of mileage from looking through a wheel? Even I'd have to take the wheel off to be sure and I've changed a few in my time. 

 

Warping no, that would only show up on a roller test, in fact what shows up as vibration when driving and the pulsed reaction force on the brake tester is not warping but a thickness variation around the disc, a warp alone would manifest when driving at speed but not on the slow speed brake tester, the pistons would move back and forth in unison without varying the clamping force, its just easier to describe a disc that judders without run-out as warped.

 

I was sceptical about the garages report as its one of the parts of the test where there are no pass/fail parameters and up to the judgement of the tester so open to abuse to generate work, the driver would normally be well aware and it turns out that Kodiaqsportsline was indeed.

10 hours ago, kodiaqsportline said:

The question is why didn't the pre-MOT ( same place as MOT took place ) or the 3yr service pick this up? Pre-MOT said they'd likely be an advisory

 

By its nature it cannot be a full MOT test but simply a look over for anything obvious visually, in fact its just a con to get the car with them so they can fleece you, in this case by making you think it would pass with them when you probabmly had doubts elsewhere because of the juddering brakes, it was not a benevolent gesture, they always intended reaming you when the actual MOT came, well done for not falling for it.

 

I would not expect a pre-MOT test to include the brake roller test or the emissions test or even using the jacking beam front and rear to lever suspension linkages, check wheel bearings and swivels etc, these are all the things that take time and are dirty hands on tasks, I think for most people a pre-MOT means a look over, it had more value in the days when cars fell apart with rust, if the floorpan or subframe was dropping out and the repairs clearly uneconomic then you would save the cost of the test fee before scrapping the car. Now a free pre-MOT test is just bait to entice the customer into their web.

9 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

I had not seen your previous postings regarding noise and pulsing under braking - It remains a concern that the rear discs, which would normally provide very little braking effort except under ESP conditions, have warped - have underlying causes for this been checked?  

 

Sh1te quality discs !   Yes we know the electric park brake is not disc friendly but all VW cars have a reputation with variable quality discs.

 

The car has only done 13k miles in 3year. The crap discs I can understand, the 75% wear in pads I do not. I'm not a heavy brake user, quite the opposite.

 

We'll see how the Bosch brakes fair. The car hasn't moved since I returned from the garage. It's been pouring rain, the rears are gleaming silver, the surface rust on the fronts make them look as if they have final stage skin cancer. Despite being told the fronts don't have an issue, I'm seriously considering having them replaced too.

 

Wouldn't hesitate using the same EuroCarParts option again.

10 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Warping no, that would only show up on a roller test,

 

That's exactly what they said. I have no experience whatsoever so in no position to disagree, but I base my questioning on a Volvo I owned back in 2004. I was told at it's first service it had warped discs that needed replacing  - something I questioned given the mileage (about 4k) and they admitted Volvo used a faulty batch of discs. They were replaced under warranty but at next 2yr service the same happened. And they were replaced too under warranty.  Would have thought it unusual a rolling road would be used during it's annual service so assume they had other options to check the brakes.

 

In all my years of driving, that's the only other car I've owned that's required attention to it's brakes. And I've had a fair number of new / very low mileage cars in that time.

Edited 1 November, 20232 yr by kodiaqsportline

10 minutes ago, kodiaqsportline said:

Would have thought it unusual a rolling road would be used during it's annual service so assume they had other options to check the brakes.

 

Agreed, they would notice on a test drive.

 

Actual warped discs (as I said earlier its a misused term) can be detected using a dial guage and magnetic stand as can the variation in thickness which is what causes the vibration.

 

There is another thing which causes it in probably most cases and which costs nothing to correct, naturally anyone with an interest in making money from repairs will not tell you about it and that is glazing or contamination causing a variance in the friction coefficient, since asbestos was removed from brake linings this affects all vehicles except those that are driven like they have been stolen, and that is exactly what has to be done to rectify the problem until it recurs.

 

I bought a Galaxy that had discs scored like an ice skating rink, that juddered and shuddered and tried to tear the steering wheel out of my hands when I braked, it was slightly better under heavy braking and really violent under light braking. I resolved to replace the discs and pads as soon as I could but was working 7 days a week on a job in London travelling there and back heavily laden and as recklessly as I used to in those carefree days.

 

After a week the vibration was a lot less and I decided I could put back the job a little longer, after 2 weeks the brakes were perfect and stopped on a dime, there was no longer even any trace of scoring, all 4 discs looked like they had just been machined.

34 minutes ago, kodiaqsportline said:

The crap discs I can understand, the 75% wear in pads I do not.

It has been asked several times, have you seen that with your own eyes?

I often wonder about people's driving styles, I'm on 82K with original front discs and pads and I reckon they will see 100K hopefully. You don't have to drive it like you stole it to keep the brakes in good order, just regular use is the key and not letting the car sit about.

 

Edited 1 November, 20232 yr by SuperbTWM

29 minutes ago, J.R. said:

It has been asked several times, have you seen that with your own eyes?

 

No. Neither do I have reason to doubt it.

 

Skoda didn't say they need replaced right now, they said that given the mileage I do, that they'd recommend I had them changed b4 the service next year.

Edited 1 November, 20232 yr by kodiaqsportline

Just now, kodiaqsportline said:

No. Neither do I have reason to doubt it.

 

Oh dear!

 

And you were doing so well 😒

26 minutes ago, SuperbTWM said:

I often wonder about people's driving styles, I'm on 82K with original front discs and pads and I reckon they will see 100K hopefully. You don't have to drive it like you stole it to keep the brakes in good order, just regular use is the key and not letting the car sit about.

 

 

If you had the discs that were on my car...

 

Thus far we've had garages replacing discs that didn't need replacing, another thread questioning why I have a car given the mileage I do ( not in anyway unusual ) etc.

 

Can I just reiterate that my driving style hasn't changed in 40 years. I just chaged the Karoq which we had for almost 4yr. It wasn't driven any differently and there wasn't an issue. Before that an Octavia ( manual handbrake admittedly ) and an Ateca. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the style of driving or the mileage or the conditions.

 

VW have a reputation for dodgy quality with their brakes, just like they have a reputation for dodgy quality with their OEM wiper blades. I've just been unlucky this time - it's as simple as that.

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Oh dear!

 

And you were doing so well 😒

 

😲  What's that supposed to mean? 

21 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Agreed, they would notice on a test drive.

 

Actual warped discs (as I said earlier its a misused term) can be detected using a dial guage and magnetic stand as can the variation in thickness which is what causes the vibration.

 

There is another thing which causes it in probably most cases and which costs nothing to correct, naturally anyone with an interest in making money from repairs will not tell you about it and that is glazing or contamination causing a variance in the friction coefficient, since asbestos was removed from brake linings this affects all vehicles except those that are driven like they have been stolen, and that is exactly what has to be done to rectify the problem until it recurs.

 

I bought a Galaxy that had discs scored like an ice skating rink, that juddered and shuddered and tried to tear the steering wheel out of my hands when I braked, it was slightly better under heavy braking and really violent under light braking. I resolved to replace the discs and pads as soon as I could but was working 7 days a week on a job in London travelling there and back heavily laden and as recklessly as I used to in those carefree days.

 

After a week the vibration was a lot less and I decided I could put back the job a little longer, after 2 weeks the brakes were perfect and stopped on a dime, there was no longer even any trace of scoring, all 4 discs looked like they had just been machined.

@J.R. That technique sounds a little like the old procedure for competition pads (DS11) - gentle braking until the pads bedded-in - then hard braking to form a conditioned surface. Following that process, to maintain the anti-fade surface that had been formed, it was necessary to avoid gentle braking which would wear away the anti-fade surface. 

You might have needed disks but the warped disks line sounds like BS.
I have never ever owned or even heard of anyone I know having actual warped disks.
A warped disk would usually indicate a problem with the brake caliper since that can twist the disk itself.
Contaminated disks causing pulsing/judder, absolutely had that loads of times. Can be cured by driving like a loon on an empty road getting the disks really hot.

Garages like to try to scare people into replacing pads by using all sorts of BS terms. BMW used to quote "braking miles", I've had percentage wear and all other sorts.
They usually start to look very awkward when you ask "what's the measurement?", and they haven't measured.
And franchise prices for brakes are criminal. When I had a Range Rover the dealer quoted £1100 for front disks and pads. Got it done at an indy for £400 and he apologised for it being so high.

In almost 60 years of driving, I have had only a single case where the run-out of a disc was excessive - this did not produce unacceptable 'pulsing' of the brakes - but did adversely affect brake pedal travel (as the disc run-out pushed the pistons too far back into the callipers)

I cannot count how many times I have been advised that discs require replacement, only for a follow up check by me to prove otherwise.

I usually try to avoid very light use of brakes, preferring to leave my brake point a little long  - then firm (but not hard) braking. 

Edited 4 December, 20232 yr by Warrior193
typo