Loss of MPG after new clutch.

[ashabristol]

Hello,

 

Recently had a new clutch on my 1.4 L&K 4x4 as had the dreaded slave cylinder go.

 

Had the car back yesterday and whilst it drives better than ever I've noticed the MPG (on the maxidot display at least) is way down on what it used to be compared to the same trip with the old clutch. On a regular trip I do for work I used to get an MPG of around 42. Today I only managed 29.

 

This evening on a longer trip where I could often average 52 I could only manage 45.

 

I noticed the cars rolling resistance seems to be less than it used to be too but that might just be my imagination.

 

Will changing the clutch have reset the ECU or messed with the maxidot MPG calculations in some way or does anyone have any other ideas?

 

I don't want the hassle of taking it back to the dealer if it might rectify itself but at the same time I don't want to leave it too long before making a complaint about it either.

 

Ash

 

 

 

 

 

[muppix]

Hey Ash,

 

I'd wait until you've had a tank or two behind you with the new clutch so you can compare the fuel economy using a more manual method, in addition to the info provided by the trip computer. By all means ping the garage an email and ask if their procedures would have reset something, but personally I'd give it a tank or two and worry about it later.

[Austin 7]

Hi

 

I can't really think of anything that would link a clutch replacement to a change in real mpg. The Yeti seems to normally have particularly low rolling resistance, so for lower speed journeys this helps the mpg. I have a number of regular medium length journeys and find the two main things that affect mpg are the amount of traffic (no surprise) and whether it is raining.  I put the latter down to the extra drag of tyres on wet versus dry roads, and the extra drag of driving through puddles etc.  I used to run on ethanol free Esso fuel, but that's now 5% ethanol so I am back to E10 which has made consumption about 2 mpg worse. I'd be inclined to see how things go, but you could have a peek under the bonnet and under the car to make sure all the cables and hoses have been put back !

[ashabristol]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will take a look under the bonnet later but have just emailed the dealer to ask their thoughts so will see what they have to say.

 

It's an odd one as the car feels completely different than it used to. Obviously the clutch biting point is different, but the whole car feels more stable and more 'planted' on the road.

 

It feels somewhat heavier too, doesn't accelerate quite as fast or rev quite as freely as it used to either.

 

I know they had to remove the sub-frame to do the clutch. Is there anything in doing that which might cause drag if not reassembled 100% correctly?

[J.R.]

Yes its very easy to have the vehicle crabbing afterwards but that would not increase the fuel consumption and you would be aware of the car pulling to one side and having to turn the steering wheel off centre against resistance to drive in a straight line.

 

My initial thought is they did not reconnect the MAF sensor when putting back the airbox but that would bring up a MIL light, check they havn't done something silly with the intake pipes and air filter.

 

How much did they touch you for?

Edited 22 December, 2023 by J.R.

[ashabristol]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

Yes its very easy to have the vehicle crabbing afterwards but that would not increase the fuel consumption and you would be aware of the car pulling to one side and having to turn the steering wheel off centre against resistance to drive in a straight line.

 

My initial thought is they did not reconnect the MAF sensor when putting back the airbox but that would bring up a MIL light, check they havn't done something silly with the intake pipes and air filter.

 

How much did they touch you for?

This is the strange thing. The car handles better than ever - drives perfectly straight (it did tend to veer a bit before) and it's far more 'planted' in corners than it ever used to be.  There are no engine lights on the dash but I did think the engine sounded a little 'rough' last night but that might just be my imagination.

 

Cost in excess of £2800. Had to have it towed by RAC so no time to research alternatives. Still that's been the only issue in 7 years of ownership.

 

If the 4wd wasn't working before it went in, but is now, would that cause some of the symptoms I'm experiencing?

[Prezafab]

Did they replace the Haldex clutch - what does it say on the invoice.

 

I had an Octavia 4x4 where there were no warning lights but it wasn't 'what it was' on traction , and often fe!t a bit odd. It has had all the correct Skoda servicing, but I sold it before I got to the bottom of it.

 

It will definitely feel more planted if 4wd is cutting in correctly.

[ashabristol]

42 minutes ago, Prezafab said:

Did they replace the Haldex clutch - what does it say on the invoice.

 

I had an Octavia 4x4 where there were no warning lights but it wasn't 'what it was' on traction , and often fe!t a bit odd. It has had all the correct Skoda servicing, but I sold it before I got to the bottom of it.

 

It will definitely feel more planted if 4wd is cutting in correctly.

They didn't replace the haldex clutch but I believe they had to remove it as part of the sub frame in order to access the clutch. Anyone have any ideas as to what mpg loss a working 4wd system would bring over a 4wd system that wasn't working?

[Prezafab]

I wouldn't have thought it would be more than 10% if faulty, but closer to 5% overall, because it's not as though it's a 4x4 system with a permanent 50-50 torque split. It's only giving a bit of 4wd for part of the time unless you are regularly on muddy tracks or loose surfaces. I would stick with a 5% difference.

[ashabristol]

13 minutes ago, Prezafab said:

I wouldn't have thought it would be more than 10% if faulty, but closer to 5% overall, because it's not as though it's a 4x4 system with a permanent 50-50 torque split. It's only giving a bit of 4wd for part of the time unless you are regularly on muddy tracks or loose surfaces. I would stick with a 5% difference.

Not enough to account for this kind of mpg loss then?

 

I had a look inside the engine bay and couldn't find anything out of place other than the fabric battery cover was unfolded which suggests they might have disconnected the battery?

 

I haven't heard back from the dealer today so will leave it until after Christmas now. At least I have a copy of the email in my outbox as proof I raised a query.

 

I will top it up with petrol next week ahead of a family gathering which will mean a 250 mile round trip. I know that trip uses exactly half a tank (give or take a very small margin) so will be interesting to see what the fuel gauge reads at the end of that trip.

[Prezafab]

I would fill it right up, then reset the trip meter to 0 when you set off for your trip. See what the maxidot  says when you get there (which often over-reads, ironically by up to 10%!). When you get home after the get together, see what the maxidot says. Then fill right up after your 250 miles, divide your litres filled by 4.5 and work out your true mpg over the round trip.

 

 

 

 

 

[ashabristol]

3 minutes ago, Prezafab said:

I would fill it right up, then reset the trip meter to 0 when you set off for your trip. See what the maxidot  says when you get there (which often over-reads, ironically by up to 10%!). When you get home after the get together, see what the maxidot says. Then fill right up after your 250 miles, divide your litres filled by 4.5 and work out your true mpg over the round trip.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, will do that. I guess I'm trying to figure out (as well as any potential cause) if the maxidot is displaying incorrectly or if the car is actually consuming more fuel.

[J.R.]

6 hours ago, Prezafab said:

Did they replace the Haldex clutch - what does it say on the invoice.

 

That is the other end of the car, they wont have worked anywhere near it.

 

£2800 for a presumably replacement clutch and slave cylinder on a petrol engined Yeti is an absolute rip off, am I the only one to be shocked by this? From the lack of comments I get the impression that is what people are getting used to.

 

There is not even a DMF to replace on the petrol engine, my clutch kit including slave cylinder and DMF cost €300 including delivery, the job took me 2 leisurely afternoons as I did not know what I was doing, I could do one now using a ramp comfortably in under 4 hours. The garage I was considering having do the job wanted 16 hours labour 😒, they are cheap, they want the customer to supply the parts and pay cash so it is all undeclared work, they may seem cheap per hour but not when they bill 4 x as long as the job takes.

 

But £2800, I am still reeling from that, its as much as I paid for my Yeti.

[J.R.]

6 hours ago, ashabristol said:

hey didn't replace the haldex clutch but I believe they had to remove it as part of the sub frame in order to access the clutch. Anyone have any ideas as to what mpg loss a working 4wd system would bring over a 4wd system that wasn't working?

 

They would not have, its the other end of the car. They may have removed the steering rack, the book says to but even with no experience I could see that it would be better and quicker to leave it on the vehicle, disconnect it from the subframe and leave it supported by a couple of bungees.

 

MPG loss from having working 4WD, somewhere between nothing and imperceptible, it only delivers power when required to, when the front wheels spin or could spin, most of the time the Haldex is only engaged by 5%, basically slipping to avoid transmission wind up, the losses are from the front bevel gearbox, from spinning the propshaft and Haldex clutch basket and hauling the extra weight around, your vehicle would have been doing all of that even if the Haldex was not able to engage.

Edited 22 December, 2023 by J.R.

[ashabristol]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

 

That is the other end of the car, they wont have worked anywhere near it.

 

£2800 for a presumably replacement clutch and slave cylinder on a petrol engined Yeti is an absolute rip off, am I the only one to be shocked by this? From the lack of comments I get the impression that is what people are getting used to.

 

There is not even a DMF to replace on the petrol engine, my clutch kit including slave cylinder and DMF cost €300 including delivery, the job took me 2 leisurely afternoons as I did not know what I was doing, I could do one now using a ramp comfortably in under 4 hours. The garage I was considering having do the job wanted 16 hours labour 😒, they are cheap, they want the customer to supply the parts and pay cash so it is all undeclared work, they may seem cheap per hour but not when they bill 4 x as long as the job takes.

 

But £2800, I am still reeling from that, its as much as I paid for my Yeti.

They said it was over 8 hours work, much of that because it's a 4x4. Of that £950 (exc vat) was parts.

 

Anyway, having had to take a day off work and wait 8 hours for RAC to turn up I didn't them to leave it on the drive so had little choice but to get them to tow it to the dealer.

[Prezafab]

18 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

That is the other end of the car, they wont have worked anywhere near it.

 

Why do you think I was asking !?!

[J.R.]

It would be helpful if you could list the parts they invoiced, it might also shed some light on your perception of how it now drives.

 

It stills leaves the labour at £200 per hour inc vat and double the hours the job actually takes although I don't doubt that the book time is 8 hours.

 

Are garage labour rates now £200 per hour?

[J.R.]

1 minute ago, Prezafab said:

Why do you think I was asking !?!

 

Because you wanted to know.

[ashabristol]

5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

It would be helpful if you could list the parts they invoiced, it might also shed some light on your perception of how it now drives.

 

It stills leaves the labour at £200 per hour inc vat and double the hours the job actually takes although I don't doubt that the book time is 8 hours.

 

Are garage labour rates now £200 per hour?

[J.R.]

14 minutes ago, ashabristol said:

They said it was over 8 hours work, much of that because it's a 4x4.

 

There is a mobile clutch mechanic that films his jobs and puts them on Youtube, he works on his back with a trolley jack and the car on axle stands, his videos are not editted, he shows the whole job but with some bits on fast forward.

 

Clearly he knows his stuff and could probably work blindfolded, he does a 2WD VAG clutch in about an hour I reckon allowing for the speeded up bits and the bits not shown like jacking up, letting down, road test, handover etc, maybe 90 minutes on site, I know he does at least 4 a day dependant on how far he has to travel.

 

I reckon he could do a 4wd one in 2-2.5 hours, laying on his back! without a vehicle ramp.

 

He may even have released a video of it now.

[ashabristol]

49 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

There is a mobile clutch mechanic that films his jobs and puts them on Youtube, he works on his back with a trolley jack and the car on axle stands, his videos are not editted, he shows the whole job but with some bits on fast forward.

 

Clearly he knows his stuff and could probably work blindfolded, he does a 2WD VAG clutch in about an hour I reckon allowing for the speeded up bits and the bits not shown like jacking up, letting down, road test, handover etc, maybe 90 minutes on site, I know he does at least 4 a day dependant on how far he has to travel.

 

I reckon he could do a 4wd one in 2-2.5 hours, laying on his back! without a vehicle ramp.

 

He may even have released a video of it now.

Well, what's done is done as regards the cost. As with everything in life, if you know the right people / places you can get stuff done cheaper. Having not needed a garage for anything other than routine servicing for the past 13 years of driving my knowledge of local independents is somewhat non existant.

[J.R.]

And mine is even less than that!

 

I wasn't criticising you, I had my clutch self destruct the week I moved here, I had no tools, no transport was rough camping in the abandoned building I had bought, no water or toilet, I git royally shafted by a garagiste recommended by a so called friend, the proposed €120 plus parts I felt was a come on and I got taken for €1500, I had no choice and the worst thing was I could see exactly where it was going, I had intervened for many others when garages played the same games, but could do nothing about it this time.

 

I was simply shocked at the bill and that others including yourself did not seem to be, I have been away 20 years in a couple of months and am clearly out of touch.

 

The clutch replacement on the MK1 Octavia was the first and last time I had ever used a garage.

Edited 22 December, 2023 by J.R.

[ashabristol]

34 minutes ago, J.R. said:

And mine is even less than that!

 

I wasn't criticising you, I had my clutch self destruct the week I moved here, I had no tools, no transport was rough camping in the abandoned building I had bought, no water or toilet, I git royally shafted by a garagiste recommended by a so called friend, the proposed €120 plus parts I felt was a come on and I got taken for €1500, I had no choice and the worst thing was I could see exactly where it was going, I had intervened for many others when garages played the same games, but could do nothing about it this time.

 

I was simply shocked at the bill and that others including yourself did not seem to be, I have been away 20 years in a couple of months and am clearly out of touch.

 

The clutch replacement on the MK1 Octavia was the first and last time I had ever used a garage.

I didn't take it personally. I'm not mechanically minded so really didn't have much choice. I too was shocked but like I said this has been the only car related repair bill in the last 13 years (probably closer to 17 years as my previous car gave no issues either) so they could have said £5k and I wouldn't have known any better.  Besides, other than this mpg issue they appear to have done a good job with the clutch. Like I say, it's easy to get things done cheaper if you know the right people / places.

 

I'm more annoyed that I nearly traded her in during the summer but didn't in the end. Now stuck with trading her in at a near 3k loss or keeping her to recoup some of that money (and crossing my fingers!)

[ashabristol]

I had two further thoughts this evening. One was to check the units of measurement in the maxidot settings (will do tomorrow) and the other was to research the mpg others have been getting out of the same spec car.

 

This has made things more interesting. I've read several threads on 1.4 4x4 mpg and looked at some 'real world' mpg websites and every single thread / site mirrors the mpg I am currently getting so perhaps the question should be why was i getting higher mpg before the clutch change?

[Stubod]

For info, while I had mine, (approx 3 years), I averaged 42mpg (actual), minimum was 37mpg, max was 47mpg and the maxidot on average was 8% optimistic. (Always noted a drop off during the Winter months...)