Fabia Combi 2018: trunk excluded from centralised un/locking??

[RJVB]

Hello,

 

Earlier today my partner comes home panicked because her trunk wouldn't open - and she has her bi-yearly RWT in an hour.

 

A quick internet search turned up an old suggestion to try a reset by holding down the trunk opening button on the keyfob for 10s. I can't observe any evidence of a reset, but the trunk does open after holding that button for a moment (haven't tried just a single press to see if it's a temporised reaction). Closing the trunk again locks it like it does usually, though I never yet had reason to test that with the other doors unlocked. To be clear: the trunk locks regardless of the locking state of the other doors, and will only unlock again with the dedicated button.

It also seems that button doesn't work from inside the car, at least not when the contact is on.

 

There's nothing in the menus of the Setup screen on the central display, but this symptom does look like a feature more than an electric/computer problem.

 

Does all this ring any bells and is it something we can fix ourselves?

[nta16]

With my wife's 2015 UK car the boot / luggage compartment (trunk is American) does not open if the metal keyblade is in the ignition cylinder lock.

 

I always refer to the Owner's Manual before the internet and I would also follow the instructions in there to synchronise the remote as it's so easy and quick to do (other than the car alarm going off when you open the door so you need to get the keyblade into the ignition cylinder lock as quick a possible to turn the car alarm off.

 

If you have a proximity key (KESSY) I don't know about those so much (can anyone tell me what advantage they give to abled-body people?).

 

The other thing you could do is look at the mechanical parts of the rear door, catch and hook for obstructions, perhaps check the emergency opening from inside (see Owner's Manual) after that check wiring and connection to to rear door switch as on newer models I have seen they seem like they might fail.

 

If required, from VWSkoda free downloadable pdf Owner's Manuals. - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

Good luck.

 

Edited 20 April by nta16
typos

[nta16]

Skoda Fabia Mk3: Boot Won’t Open (Find Emergency Lever) - (loads of other useful videos on this YT channel too on (earlier) Fabia Mk3) -

 

 

[nta16]

The door lock emergency open or close is also the operation to synchronise the remote, this example is on an earlier UK car but the principles still apply (so quick and easy to do, though I have no idea why the car alarm didn't go off but that is just another of the joys of computers and their programming that brings interest into our lives). -

 

 Skoda Fabia Mk3: Door Lock Emergency Open/Close (Broken Key Fob)

 

[RJVB]

Thanks for the videos (I had already found the instructions and am familiar with the emergency entry ... even starting the engine with a dead keyfob battery).

 

However, in this case the keyfob is not the culprit but the saviour that allows us access to the boot: the button inside the car doesn't unlock it either. This is what got me thinking of a special function, or else a current draw issue with the latch that means it doesn't get enough power when the others are triggered at the same time.

 

The RWT guy had another explanation when we told him how to open the boot: defective handle switch. That would explain why we need to hold the fob button long enough for the latch to spring open, and it's also something that wouldn't surprise me. The cushiony feel of the thing you need to push in to open the lid never inspired much confidence because clearly not mechanic.

[RJVB]

In fact, it could be a combination of both a problem and a feature. I've been a bit suspicious of the fact that I'm not hearing anything like a latch jumping between positions like what you hear in the doors when pressing the locking button inside the car or on the keyfob. If indeed there's a separate lock that holds the boot lid closed in addition to the latch controlled by the button on the lid itself, the car could cause the symptoms we're seeing as a safety measure when it detects that that lock has failed. Otherwise anyone would be able to open the boot even with the doors locked.

 

(By analogy: if you cook your light selector switch the car detects that too and activates the low beams permanently. Also without showing any kind of warning on any of the displays.)

[nta16]

Sorry, obviously I do not know what you know and do not, in the same way I have no idea what a bi-yearly RWT is (our MoT is annual after car is 3 years old).

 

I might have misunderstood and you mean the door opening in addition to unlocking.

 

1 hour ago, RJVB said:

defective handle switch

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

after that check wiring and connection to to rear door switch as on newer models I have seen they seem like they might fail.

 

You can test the opening using the hole and screwdriver then it's out with the multimeter to see if the switch is faulty or just connections dirty or broken, or broken wire(s).

 

Any warning light on the drivers door flashing sequence?

 

rum4mo - "One thing to always include in your "looking around" when faced with an electrical issue concerning a issue with the rear hatch, will be the area of wring within the conduit between the body and the rear hatch."

 

[RJVB]

54 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Sorry, obviously I do not know what you know and do not, in the same way I have no idea what a bi-yearly RWT is (our MoT is annual after car is 3 years old).

[...]

Any warning light on the drivers door flashing sequence?

 

 

(Am I overlooking a way to get rid of the wysiwig quote thingy and but instead one that uses BB tags or something of the sort so I can edit and put my replies among/under quoted fragments?)

 

RWT : road worthiness testing. I guess I've seen the US term too often. Here it's called CT (for technical control) and is every other year after a car turns 4yo.

 

There's nothing that can flash on the driver's door but I suppose you mean the flashing of the turn signals to indicate that the keyfob command was received. I'm not noticing anything particular/different pattern there.

 

My partner is going to take the car in to the local shop on Monday, as there are other things she wants to have looked at (no light in the boot, no washer fluid on the rear window). I suppose that checking the wiring would require removing the cache from the inside of the lid, and that's not something I feel like doing outside with the weather we're having.

[nta16]

15 hours ago, RJVB said:

(Am I overlooking a way to get rid of the wysiwig quote thingy and but instead one that uses BB tags or something of the sort so I can edit and put my replies among/under quoted fragments?)

Er, no idea about these computer terms (took me two goes at seeing wisiwig as I've not heard that term for decades) but what I think you want is separate sections of quotes (boxes).  So, cursor over the start of what you want to quote, hold down left-click of mouse (or equivalent), whilst still holding down mouse-left-click highlight the wording you want to quote, this should bring up a pale green infill box with bold black border with the wording 'Quote selection', left- click with your cursor on this box and the quote goes to your new post box.  You can drag the quote box through existing text (or empty lines put in with carriage return or equivalent).

 

 

15 hours ago, RJVB said:

RWT : road worthiness testing. I guess I've seen the US term too often.

Thanks, I've not heard that term.  As an English language I avoid Americanisms, they've already took over too much here. 🙂

 

 

15 hours ago, RJVB said:

There's nothing that can flash on the driver's door

I can barely read English let alone French so I have to look at the English language version of a 2018 Fabia Owner's Manual, below is from that publication, perhaps left-hand-drive models have the little red light on the passenger door instead(?) (or you've not consulted the Owner's Manual sufficiently).

 

 

 

15 hours ago, RJVB said:

(no light in the boot, no washer fluid on the rear window).

This is possibly a perfect example of me not asking the right or sufficient questions.  You have more than the boot opening switch not working, this suggests perhaps the following, the area of wring within the conduit between the body of the car and the tailgate has broken wires (this information and photo was kindly provided by Joske82 in another thread where he discovered the issue and solution). -

 

 

HTH.  Good luck.

 

[nta16]

ETA: you can also update your wotsit/thingy to include the Fabia.

 

Wotsit/thingy is this, (I've no idea what it's called).

 

[RJVB]

Oh, doh, you meant the tiny red LED that shows the vehicle is locked and has electronic start protection? That one flashes 6x when I lock the doors, and not at all when I unlock them (or maybe 1x but that could have been the standard periodic flash to show the system is active). From what I understand there is no indication of malfunction here. And something tells me there's no point in trying the synchronisation trick since the doors unlock just fine. I did confirm that the hidden key cylinder also doesn't unlock the boot door.

Somehow when you said "lights" I thought of the ones I have in the doors of my Octy (to warn other drivers about an open door in the dark?). The Fabia doesn't have those and I'm not even certain it has turn signals in the rearview mirrors.

 

How easy is it to unplug that hose/conduit connector without actually cutting or stripping a wire on the metal? I know that our usual workshop has tried to get the light working again and failed to do that as part of a regular service. They're a serious outfit so I'd be surprised if they didn't perform the easy-to-do checks of the wiring and fuses.

 

Normally a non-working boot door on a Combi/wagon is a reason for a return test visit after having the problem fixed. For a bit of a crooked reason IMHO; since the lid is seen as a door it must be possible to open it to extract passengers in case of an accident. And that's not possible if you can only use the keyfob iff the car is off otherwise. Thing is, how are others going to unlock the car so the boot will open if they don't already have the keyfob... and evidently the entire exit is blocked if you have a dog barrier in the car.

Fortunately the test operator was in a generous mood and didn't make note of the problem...

There are more ambivalent things in our testing regulations; e.g. they're not allowed to remove hubcaps that hide the wheel bolts, to check if those are tightened correctly (or whatever it is they check).

 

Re: the forum software: having to select bits and pieces graphically ("mousically" if you prefer) is too cumbersome and slow. Fortunately this isn't a forum where I spend a lot of time interacting on all kinds of things!

The old smartcrack "WYSIWYG is really WYSIAYG" (A for "all") also and still applies to user interfaces, not just to word processors.

[AGFalco]

23 hours ago, RJVB said:

The cushiony feel of the thing you need to push in to open the lid never inspired much confidence because clearly not mechanic.

Electronic switch.

 

Short press on boot switch on key fob unlocks boot.

Long press on boot switch on key fob releases catch.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

[RJVB]

2 hours ago, AGFalco said:

Long press on boot switch on key fob releases catch.

 

Long press unlocks and releases, right?

 

From the symptoms it's impossible to know which function is actually broken, the unlock or the catch.

 

Even if there is an actual bolt/latch that is responsible for locking the boot (is there as appears to be the case for the doors?) it could still be that this one remains open and the software compensates by allowing the catch to be operated only with the keyfob.

 

But the fact there's a manual release mechanism suggests there cannot be a bolt/latch in addition to the catch mechanism.

Edited 21 April by RJVB

[rum4mo]

The behaviour of the flashing indicator on the driver's door is telling you that there is a fault malfunction in the doors locking system, it should give a single flash with a long period between flashes if the door locking has been performed correctly and there is currently no system faults.

 

This still all points to something probably being wrong with the wiring section between the body and the rear hatch.

[RJVB]

Hopefully a fault in the handle switch gives a fault too. A switch that's open isn't distinguishable from a broken cable but they also have some magic recipe to detect a broken light selector so who knows. I can still feel the handle switch move and hear it click but maybe the business part has gotten stuck in closed position - that would be an obvious fault.

Curious though that those 6 flashes take well less than 2 seconds and there's no steady light (or that the manual only mentions that as an error code).

[nta16]

You are possibly overthinking this all and not getting down to enough practical investigation, you may also be over-crediting VWSkoda complex computer systems and programs and programmers and the efficiency and thoroughness of garage staff.  Plugging in an appropriate scan tool might give give info on the switch fail and/or test it by actuating it.

 

On 20/04/2024 at 21:11, RJVB said:

My partner is going to take the car in to the local shop on Monday, as there are other things she wants to have looked at (no light in the boot, no washer fluid on the rear window).

They should sort boot switch and all if they are any good and if they are good then it should be a good repair that lasts, if they bodge things it might be a repair that lasts for a good while but causes problems again in the future.  I would ask for details of the repair so that you can check the quality of the repair if you want to.  Personally in these day of ubiquitous cameras in devices I can't see a problem with taking a photo of the repair but it doesn't seem to be what most garages want to do (no wonder with some of them).

 

As for the multi-quotes process I mentioned I've no idea if the way I do it is the most efficient, best, only, it's just the way I do it and for me isn't that slow or cumbersome as I'm used to that way,

 

Let us know how you get on after Monday.

[RJVB]

38 minutes ago, nta16 said:

You are possibly overthinking this all and not getting down to enough practical investigation, you may also be over-crediting VWSkoda complex computer systems and programs and programmers

 

I know I'm way too good at overthinking things, esp. when I can't simply roll up my sleeves and get my hands dirty checking things. But remember dieselgate and the Skoda slogan "Simply clever"?  

 

I'll post an update when I know more. Quite possibly that won't be tomorrow, though the boss of this particular workshop has a tendancy of doing things at once when we just go there instead of making an appointment. (I started going there after he had replaced a blown injector in less than 24hr just because I asked if I was going to have to cancel my own "control technique" scheduled a few days later with a weekend in between.)

 

(Also, my interrogations about the forum software were not addressed at anyone in particular...)

[nta16]

28 minutes ago, RJVB said:

But remember dieselgate and the Skoda slogan "Simply clever"?  

Yes, very much so.  I'm unusual here in not being a VW fan or liking German marque products (with very few exceptions and not from this century) I personally find much about VW simply not clever and trying to be too "clever". 

 

 

32 minutes ago, RJVB said:

(Also, my interrogations about the forum software were not addressed at anyone in particular...)

Fair enough, but they can be. - Site Help and Suggestions - https://www.briskoda.net/forums/forum/22-site-help-and-suggestions/

 

[rum4mo]

Ah, so you can feel that the handle is trying to do something AND the washer fluid is not spraying out of the rear spray head, sounds a lot like the washer fluid is leaking inside the rear hatch and that that has given the electric hatch release a problem - maybe.

 

All will be revealed later!

[RJVB]

No, I can't feel that the handle is trying to do something, I just feel the microswitch (because that's what I think it is) move when I put a very small pressure on the pad.

 

I concur, this design isn't particularly clever. Putting a delicate electrical switch in a location where you put your fingers to lift up something heavy is a bit of a recipe for disaster. I think my wife's previous car had the button in a more traditional position for pressing with the thumb.

 

Anyway, I let my partner go alone to the workshop (I'd seen her taking notes) but owner simply ordered a new switch. Like the guy at the test centre he has seen too many cases of this particular failure to overthink it. We'll see come thursday if wifey learns that she should indeed have mentioned the other issues (she didn't because the switch already cost 167€ before taxes 😕 )

 

Indeed, washer fluid leaking into the inside of the hatch might be a cause, but it's apparently been 3 years that that function doesn't work so I have to assume we would have seen traces of fluid in suspicious places by now. That door is designed not to keep water inside after all.

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, RJVB said:

I concur, this design isn't particularly clever. Putting a delicate electrical switch in a location where you put your fingers to lift up something heavy is a bit of a recipe for disaster.

 

Not at all, that is how most microswitches are configured with the operating lever/mechanism having the mechanical stop preventing loads being applied to the switch casing.

 

The big red or yellow mushroom head emergency stop buttons on dangerous machinery, the type  that are designed to be hammered by a fist in a panicked reaction have microswitches behind them.

 

The tailgate is counterbalanced by the gas struts, you only pull it slightly outwards with minimum force before the struts take over.

Edited 22 April by J.R.

[nta16]

Wow, €167. he must be weighing up diagnostics, search and testing time/fees against likely possibility of just replacing the part.

 

The leaking of washer fluid into and out of the rear door you might notice you might not, depends on a few things plus the leak may not be at that point anywhere, or it might be a blockage in the pipe or connection or pipe squeezed to close or connection off, might be an issue with or at the pump.

 

Boot light is another matter, if it doesn't come on when you open the tailgate then testing the bulb is first port of call, Sod's Law allows for more than one cause of problems in the same item or area.

 

In a way it's good to know that you can survive without such things as washer to rear window, you're a hardy pair. 😊

 

[RJVB]

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

Not at all, that is how most microswitches are configured with the operating lever/mechanism having the mechanical stop preventing loads being applied to the switch casing.

 

With all due respect, you're probably right but that switch doesn't at all feel like the hammer-ones do. If these switch assemblies are prone to failure a mechanical reason is the first thing that comes to my mind given the location and how I know from personal experience that everyone doesn't exactly always use the least force required to open the boot. Esp. not when it happens to be/already have locked, or when you want to check that it's indeed locked.

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

Wow, €167. he must be weighing up diagnostics, search and testing time/fees against likely possibility of just replacing the part.

 

Actually, that's just the price of the part...

 

No washer on the rear is hardly an issue (I rarely even use the wiper on my car; I like the extra attenuation of the headlights of tailgaters that a little dirt gives ^^). No light in the boot is more annoying but I think me going on 3 years without airco is in a different category in terms of hardiness

[RJVB]

In fact, having a look at the bottom of the boot door yesterday I saw that it has a number of plugs or possibly rivets with a plastic head, but I don't see the oblong holes that I'm sure my boot door has. So indeed, any liquid that does get inside will apparently remain trapped if it can get out via the latch area.

 

That said, the door would have to get pretty full before the liquid can get to the handle switch because evidently it will accumulate from a or the corners.

[nta16]

There was a thread were a number plate light had got corroded from water getting in IIRC but I can't find it now.

 

Can't believe that price it must be for more than just a microswitch door switch assembly surely.