I have narrowed my choice of our new family car to the following:

Ford Focus ST170 Estate

Vauxhall Signum 2.0Turbo Design

Skoda 4x4 Estate 1.8t

SKoda vRS Estate

Currently we have a Merceded A Class and a Ford Scorpio Ultima Estate on LPG

and are selling to buy one car. My Wife wants a playgroup runabout high driving position easy to put the children into car. I want a car thats enjoyable to drive and comfortable on long distances. We both want something with enough space to put all the childrens stuff in the boot. I came up with the above 4 choices.

If I bought the 4x4 the money I save will go on a remap.

Any comments on my choice very welcome but I have the following questions:

Just how bad would the handling of corners be in the 4x4 in comparison to the other choices?

Is the vRS really that bad at taking speed bumps?

Anyone got 2 toddlers and a vRS?

Anyone comment on the Signum design handling. Reviews slate the Signum but how does the Design handle?

Does the vRS have a full stainless steel exhaust or just a tailpipe, are the brakes any bigger on the vRS than standard?

Does anyone know if the ST170 has a full stainless exhuast or just tailpipe?

i would get the vrs. brakes are bigger than standard octavias yes at 312mm. i believe the exhaust is full stainless steel. speed bumps no big issue at standard ride height trust me my street is filled with some serious ones and they are no issue if you slow down! you will like the interior better also though the white/silver inserts in the seats may be a small issue. why not remap a vrs

I wouldn't bother with the ST170 personally. Not very quick or economical. Have you considered the TDCI engine in the Focus?

Alternatively, Mondeo's are cheap as chips to buy after they've done the bulk of their depreciation and are good to drive and will swallow up luggage with ease

Chris

for some reason my wife says she is not driving a mondeo??, I would, but she doesn't want one.

i would like to remap the vRS but am worried about the saftey of 220bhp 2WD in the wet when my wife is driving the children.

regarding too much power you could get a switchable map so that its only on when you drive it i.e. revo or amd or get the jabba map with the boost controller.

i would like to remap the vRS but am worried about the saftey of 220bhp 2WD in the wet when my wife is driving the children.

a re-mapped vRS is a pussy-cat that can easily be driven slowly....

Just bought a octaviaII Vrs estate for the family

plenty of room for a 9mth old and a 9y/o up to yet !

Signums depreciate very heavily but they often come heavily loaded with goodies.

My uncle has a 'opel signum' across the seas. Such a big spacious, and with that 2 litre turbo lurking around, the pull is fantastic. Lots of rear legroom make it a comfortable place to be in. Have a test drive of one...

I've got an Octy 1 vRS estate (pics here) and find it great as a family car.

I've got two boys aged 8 and 6, and the boot space is massive. Really feels more Mondeo sized than Focus sized. Have used it for camping trips, and weekends away and there is ample space (although a roof box was used when I went on a weeks camping trip with them - but thats just because I'm getting old and need my little luxuries).

No problems with speed bumps, although I do take them at sensible speeds.

With regards to safety after a re-map, the Octy 1 comes with ASR (anti-slip thingy) and I believe the Octy II has ESP as well (do a search to find out more) so I guess both of these would help.

Light coloured seats in the Octy vRS are not ideal, but you can get them protected (Supaguard??). I also have a "no eating in the car" rule for my kids, and make them take off muddy football kit etc. but the seats do clean up OK with a bit of foam shampoo stuff.

Have also heard that some good second hand Signum deals can be had because of the high depreciation, but I guess you have to ask why they lose value so quickly.

On my second family vRS.

Had a Mk I hatch (massive boot - bigger than Mondy hatch), and now a Mk II Estate.

No eating restrictions in my car - just a couple of old tea towels under the kids seats. The mesh cleans up nicely with baby wipes (Asda unscented )

Been a vRS owner for just over 3 years, kids are now 3 and 7. Considered an ST170 estate myself before Octy 1, but didn't really like the engine of the demonstrator - the Octy performance was much more usable. And the Octy hatch might even have more space than the (old) Focus estate...? Which made the price diff much more in Skoda's favour.

Only disappointment with the new estate is that the dog still has to get over quite a high sill - the Focus estate is better in this regard. Don't know about the sill on the MKI octy.

New Octy is a better drive than octy 1 and rear room for kids is a bit better - plus they get blowers through the jumbo box - nice on a hot day

Can't comment on Signum.

And for peace of mind, perhaps check how the cars perform on JD Power...?

You'll not get many non-skoda bias replys here, but they are ace cars

I can only comment on the Signum, because I've got one!

They're not the greatest handling cars on the road, but Irmscher do a kit which improves things a lot. I've got the 3.0 V6 diesel, which is even worse, as the engine weighs so much.

On the other hand, I'm an old git, so I don't look for ultimate performance on the bends, and I prefer lots of toys and and home comforts, which the car provides. if you plan on using the middle rear seat you may have a problem, as it's not very big.

Also, I wouldn't buy a new one, as they do depreciate at a slightly scary rate. My '04 Elite was listed at 27K, but I got it for 15K at 9 months old!

HTH, Phil

hi lots of helpful comments, thanks.

the signum is attractive becuase of all the gadgets, EPS, Side and Curtain Airbags, 2.0 turbo & 6 Speed Manual Box and that I can get an 04 for about £7500 at auction.

coming from a 98r ford scorpio ultima esate - (leather heated electric memory seats, heated windscreen, auto dipping rear view mirror, cruise control, a wing mirror that adjusts when you put the car in reverse, dual zone climate with an optic sensor....) I've got used to the luxury and effortless motorway cruises but become tired of the boring handling and high repair bills.

I was hoping the Signum Design (sports chassis) might be a decent drive and relaxed cruiser with some comfort and gadgets. The rear seats sliding back and forth is a real bonus to make it easier to get the two children into and out of the car seats.

I did consider a 156 sportswagon for handling/performance but they just seem so impractical and cramped for two children in car seats and a double buggy!!

The vrs estate seems a better car overall than the ST170 estate, but then I have spent a long time browsing this forum! Also the ST170 Estate is so rare that prices are way inflated.

The 4x4 Octavia Estate looked like a good choice remapped but it seems from reading posts, unless I mod the suspension it will be a soft and rolling car around corners. Also despite ESP on the 4x4 I'd rather have a better handling car in the first place and the bigger brakes on the VRS could be very useful to avoid a collision. I also like the leather on the vrs.

So it seems a VRS MK1 estate or a Signum 2.0Turbo. I just need to find out how big a difference there is in handling. Its hard to get test drives of 2nd hand cars.

If I get the VRS I will end up having it remapped. Does anyone know if the Signum 2.0 Turbo engine can be easily remapped as I can never find it listed on the remapping sites.

Does anyone know if the Signum 2.0 Turbo engine can be easily remapped as I can never find it listed on the remapping sites.

Not sure which engine is in the Signum, but Superchips seem to tune a lot of Vauxhalls.

Also don't forget www.regal-shop.co.uk and www.courtenaysport.co.uk

Chris

I agree that the Alfa 156 Sportwagon is not a good choice. I had one before I got the Octy 1 estate, and the boot size is pathetic. Think I read somewhere that its actually smaller than the saloon's.

With regard to test drives, the Skoda UK web-site has a used car locator feature, so you could see what is available for a test drive at any dealers near you, even if you don't end up buying from them.

An octy hatch has massive loadspace - don't discount it and you'll have much more choice when it comes to buying...

I'm also kinda maybe could be thinking of the Signum myself....

An octy hatch has massive loadspace - don't discount it and you'll have much more choice when it comes to buying...

It's the same sized load space as any other family sized car!!! In fact, I'm pretty sure it's smaller than the Mondeo, but that's immaterial

Chris

It's the same sized load space as any other family sized car!!!

The Octavia sits in the "Small Family Car" sector (Focus, Golf, Astra, etc) yet competes, boot-space wise, with the class above, likes of your Mondy.

That space is anything but immaterial when you've got 2 small kids and all the assoctiated gubbins that goes with it. If you want a big car, brilliant, no problem. If you want a smaller car (the wife does) yet not compromise on carrying capability, Octy is ace. Once the kids are older, I'm sure the balance will switch from carrying junk ability to rear legroom - in which case Octy isn't so brill.

Back on-topic, I think my advice still stands. Octy vRS estates are a lot more thin on the ground than hatches, and the hatch *might* do - It did me! I just used the dog as an excuse to get a new estate...

It's the same sized load space as any other family sized car!!! In fact' date=' I'm pretty sure it's smaller than the Mondeo, but that's immaterial

Chris[/quote']

Agree with MrkyMrk - the old Octavia is a smaller car than the Mondeo (Length is 4513 against 4731) but the boot is larger (561 ltrs against 501 ltrs) which is not a bad feat and is one of the things that made me 9and many taxi drivers) choose it along with it being cheap. Figures are from specs listed on www.wisebuyers.co.uk