Hi all

 

First time poster after some help.

 

Wife's car is a 2015 (65 plate) Fabia III 1.4 TDI (CUSB) on around 75k miles. Last weekend she was driving on the motorway and the engine just lost all power, as if someone has turned the iginition off. Dash all ok, no engine/glowplug lights. Everything else working fine. Car cranks healthily but does not start. I drove up there and with a cheap OBD reader there were no fault codes stored.

We got it recovered to a garage (independent that we use for our cars) but they haven't got a slot to work on it anytime soon.

 

I have *some* mechanical/electrical/electronics experience but not much, especially not with modern road cars.

 

I have since got the whole VCDS/Delphi kit, and this is where I've got to, after spending a few hours on it this weekend (which included trying to learn VCDS + Delphi!)

 

- Transfer pump works (if you disconnect the fuel pipe from the HPFP and crank over, it pumps fuel well)

- I've pumped fuel into a bottle (using VCDS to override the pump) and fuel looks ok, not cloudy, and no separation (ie water) after leaving it sitting for a few hours

- This happened at half tank, so over 20 litres (of the same fuel) had gone through the engine (so not a misfuel and unlikely dodgy fuel)

- No engine fault stored, so I've unplugged some stuff to see it would flag codes(ie fuel pressure, fuel temp, fuel solenoid) and it does immediately flag a code. There is one sticky code which is related to the Radio Antenna, but I would have thought it is unrelated

- Fuel Rail pressure (whilst cranking) is good (300-400 bar), which would rule out transfer pump, HPFP, fuel solenoid

- Crankshaft and Camshaft sensors read RPM (oddly enough the same RPM, i would have thought the camshalt would read crank/2)

- Cambelt all looks in good condition and changed about 30k miles ago

- Checked all the fuses, nothing blown

- MAF reads about 3-4g/s whilst cranking

- I've tried both keys (thinking transponder...)

- Battery takes charge and holds ok (not really new new battery but not in bad shape)

- Glow plugs read the correct states on VCDS, plus I don't think I'd be needing glow plugs in this weather (25+ deg C in the UK at the moment)

- Tried a bit of EZ start on the intake and it does try to start, but I dont want to overdo it and cause any damage

 

I might have forgotten to list some stuff I've tried...

 

definetly out of my depth by now!

 

next steps would be to check all the relays (but I can't find a relay box diagram, plus it looks proper well stashed behind the dash so I would have thought some major disassembly would be required?)

 

Any advice or pointers in the right direction would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Patrick

 

Edited 1 July, 20241 yr by pbandeira

Good morning Patrick, welcome to the forum.

I have seen a few members with similar TDI issue - suggest checking the crankshaft position sensor, as this can apparently cause the issue you have.

@Warrior193 thanks for your message. How would I check it?

 

I am getting RPM reading on VCDS from the crankshaft sensor and it seems to be correct (around 400 rpm whilst cranking)?

3 minutes ago, pbandeira said:

@Warrior193 thanks for your message. How would I check it?

 

I am getting RPM reading on VCDS from the crankshaft sensor and it seems to be correct (around 400 rpm whilst cranking)?

From other postings with this apparent failure, it seems that the sensor was simply replaced.

It appears that the fault typically does not raise a DTC - not sure, but gained the impression that the crank sensor was reading, but possibly indicating incorrect crank angle? Suggest flagging @ApertureS

I shall await for @ApertureS, comments then!

Further update on the matter. Car has been with a garage for a couple of weeks (trustworthy from previous experience).

 

They have condemned the 3 injectors and say they all need replacing at a £1600 bill (which includes the diagnostic labour).

 

I'd be keen to hear your thoughts 

Edited 15 July, 20241 yr by pbandeira

Wow, on what report(s) and other diagnostics or basis have they formed this solution - why?

 

You want the mechanics and techies and those that know about the issues with 1.4 TDI (CUSB) engine on around 75k miles for this sort of thing.

 

If the engine was also in the Mk2 Fabia (I've no idea) you could look on that forum for history and possible injector issues with that engine.

 

Hope you find out.

 

A Euro 6  engine that had it,s own Coolant / Water Pump issues as per the pinned thread in this section. 

3 hours ago, pbandeira said:

Further update on the matter. Car has been with a garage for a couple of weeks (trustworthy from previous experience).

 

They have condemned the 3 injectors and say they all need replacing at a £1600 bill (which includes the diagnostic labour).

 

I'd be keen to hear your thoughts 

Although not impossible, surely very unlikely for all three injectors to have failed simultaneously.

They are gambling that with £1600 for nothing they might by chance stumble across the real reason for non starting, not gambling with their own money.

 

Mind you if they can diagnose not one but three faulty fuel injectors without being able to start the engine then maybe their psychic powers are worth £1600, what do I know!!!

 

It sounds like you have done all the right things using VCDS, I commend you as a new user for having worked out how to do all that, someone with that competence should not be giving in and gifting £1600 to a garage, I would have persisted a little longer with the easi-start, it will tell you a lot about the basic compression ignition capability devoid of any engine control, will show if the timing has slipped or there has been valve damage.

 

It can sound horrific  but you are not likely to damage the engine with it running on Easi-start for a few seconds, just make sure you dont drown it because it can hydro-lock and when it happened to me broke the planet gearing on the starter motor. In my defence I was helping a mechanic start his own vehicle and doing exactly what he was telling me forcefully to do, I knew it was becoming flooded but his ego knew better.

I have since spoken to the garage as I had loads of questions, as you can imagine.

 

@nta16 Their diagnostics process involved removing the 3 injectors and testing them on the bench, they could see the trigger coming from the ECU but the injectors would not fire. I believe the CUS engines are new for the mk3 (and a Polo mk5)

 

@Warrior193 I agree, unlikely all 3 failed at the same time, but the garage seems to be convinced that this is the case.

 

@J.R. Thanks for your nice comments. I am somewhat familiar with similar bits of kit (on the electrical and electronics side - not mechanical), but not really with road cars and specially not diesels. I do agree that I should be able to diagnose and fix "simpler" problems. However, I really don't have the time, or the confidence to go much further, allied to the fact that the wife really does need the car back asap. I was very concerned about hydrolocking the engine and I had also read about easi-start damagine the liners as it would affect the lubrication? I do feel a bit had over and that they are using my money to buy kit needed to diagnose the car and taking the ****. When I got the VCDS, I was hoping to find VAG specific DTCs and look at live channels that would point me in the right direction, but after this wasnt really successul, I thought it was better to leave it to the garage as they would have experience with diesels (and the mechanical side of things).

in summary, I feel that's quite a lot of money and I am being a bit had over but I really could do with a working car and hopefully this fixes it and it gets us going again.

 

One of our other questions, if this proves to be injector related, is if it could be related to poor quality Fuel. Car usually sees Tesco's finest(cheapest) offering. Whilst with my car (not a Skoda) I tend to use "branded" fuel.

 

cheers

 

2 hours ago, pbandeira said:

I had also read about easi-start damagine the liners as it would affect the lubrication?

 

Its true that engines do become addicted to it 🤪 but that was decades ago on diesel trucks, those in the fleet that were reluctant to start on cold morning without it would develope a thirst for it (lowered compressions) and beg for it more and more!!!!

 

Running an engine for the few seconds that the vapour lasts is not likely to cause any measurable or quantifiable damage, after all the bores are effectively unlubricated on every cold start.

Edited 16 July, 20241 yr by J.R.

4 hours ago, pbandeira said:

One of our other questions, if this proves to be injector related, is if it could be related to poor quality Fuel. Car usually sees Tesco's finest(cheapest) offering. Whilst with my car (not a Skoda) I tend to use "branded" fuel.

Others would know better than me but I very much doubt any (legitimate) diesel, at say supermarket or known (or other) petrol stations would be of poor quality in UK.  When my wife had a diesel car (our one and only) the few times I drove it, if needed I would fill with the cleaner diesel (an oxymoron if ever there was) V-Power and then I would see a cloud of silver-grey out of the exhaust from accelerating hard off a roundabout 1.5m from home instead of the very black cloud if my wife had filled with usual diesel.  I'd suggest a couple of tankfuls of the likes of V-Power every now and again, all the time if very low mileage, short distance use, and before, during and after an MoT/service.

 

right.... the plot thickens....

 

After quite a bit of discussion about the 3 injectors failing at the same time, the garage went to do some work and taken quite a bit of the fuel system apart and they have told me it is covered in swarf between the fuel pump and the injectors, and then on the line that goes back to the tank, current thought is HPFP wear which has pumped swarf into the system.

 

This would be quite a considerable repair bill as we would be looking at:

- 3 injectors

- HPFP + cambelt

- cleaning the whole system.

 

This kind of explains the whole saga and why when I pumped fuel into a bottle from the filter outlet it was clean, and why the 3 injectors failed at the same time.

 

We've spent quite a bit of money with the garage to diagnose the problem (and would still have to pay them if we scrap the car) so it's looking at quite  a big bill (which they will come back to me with a number in the next couple of days)

 

so we have a few options:

- get them to do the work

- scrap and hope the scrap value somewhat offsets the fuel bill

- buy a stop gap car, tow it home and work on it in my weekends to try to get it up and running

 

 

3 hours ago, pbandeira said:

swarf between the fuel pump and the injectors, and then on the line that goes back to the tank, current thought is HPFP wear which has pumped swarf into the system.

Any Petrol in the fuel tank, with the Diesel?

 

Thanks. AG Falco

5 hours ago, pbandeira said:

right.... the plot thickens....

 

After quite a bit of discussion about the 3 injectors failing at the same time, the garage went to do some work and taken quite a bit of the fuel system apart and they have told me it is covered in swarf between the fuel pump and the injectors, and then on the line that goes back to the tank, current thought is HPFP wear which has pumped swarf into the system.

 

This would be quite a considerable repair bill as we would be looking at:

- 3 injectors

- HPFP + cambelt

- cleaning the whole system.

 

This kind of explains the whole saga and why when I pumped fuel into a bottle from the filter outlet it was clean, and why the 3 injectors failed at the same time.

 

We've spent quite a bit of money with the garage to diagnose the problem (and would still have to pay them if we scrap the car) so it's looking at quite  a big bill (which they will come back to me with a number in the next couple of days)

 

so we have a few options:

- get them to do the work

- scrap and hope the scrap value somewhat offsets the fuel bill

- buy a stop gap car, tow it home and work on it in my weekends to try to get it up and running

 

 

One question on the parts list (+ cambelt) - isn't the HPFP driven directly off the camshaft?

@Warrior193 the image below matches the engine in the car. cheeers

 

Edited 24 July, 20241 yr by pbandeira

On 17/07/2024 at 19:40, AGFalco said:

Any Petrol in the fuel tank, with the Diesel?

 

Thanks. AG Falco

No that I can see/smell. I've pumped the fuel out of the filter into a bottle and it smells like diesel and there is no separation. Bar sending the fuel for some chemical analsysis, I am not sure how to establish that?

cheers

 

Edited 24 July, 20241 yr by pbandeira

8 hours ago, pbandeira said:

I am not sure how to establish that?

Try to light it.

Diesel won't ignite on it's own.

Petrol will.

 

Thanks. AG Falco

Hi, any update on this thread I am suffering the same issue apart from already spend over 3k at a garage for a new engine, new injectors, in tank pump and hpfp with still no possitive signs.

 

Won't start atall unless the cam sensor is unplugged then it will start and run rough also no codes until cam is disconnected them throws up cam position sensor as expected any thought on this checked timing and thats all sitting fine.

10 hours ago, kieran990 said:

Hi, any update on this thread I am suffering the same issue apart from already spend over 3k at a garage for a new engine, new injectors, in tank pump and hpfp with still no possitive signs.

 

Won't start atall unless the cam sensor is unplugged then it will start and run rough also no codes until cam is disconnected them throws up cam position sensor as expected any thought on this checked timing and thats all sitting fine.

Hi Kieran

Car is still with the garage and they have been working on it. It has all been delayed by parts delivery and a few parts arriving wrong and having to then wait for them to be swapped out. I *should* be getting the car back later this week and I will let you know.

No worries,

I have been at this a few weeks and starting to wonder how much more I need to throw at it 🤣 the old hammer trick doesn't work now.

Hi there any update on this ? If your still struggling ask the mechanic to disconnect the cam sensor and try start it that's what I've done as of now it's running but still need to get it sorted to avoid any further issues.

 

Let me know the outcome of the cam sensor unplugged if it starts or not could have the exact same issue as you 

So after a few long months the car runs fine.

 

Tanks and all fuel lines cleaned, new hpfp, new injectors, new battery, cambelt, waterpump.... the works!

ECU sent out for testing, all good (I've been told)

 

BUT...... we have 2 new fault codes.

 

First one from engine ECU complaining about Terminal 30 voltage - open circuit - this is turning the EML on.

Second one from Battery Management Module complaning about no comms to ECU

 

The second one (Battery Module) I have cleared once, it came back again. I cleared again, drove the car for a few miles and it hasn't come back (yet)

 

I have checked all the fuses in cabin and in engine bay and none are blown.

 

Any input would be appreciated. 

 

thank you

 

PS: photos from today - clock was wrong but I set it after taking the photos

 

Edited 26 September, 20241 yr by pbandeira