Looking at changing our 2015 Business trim diesel Octavia Estate, with an almost new Octavia iV estate as the likely replacement.   The existing car has been extremely economical as it is Euro 6 compliant but was registerd in the period when diesels were still being encouraged, so has zero road tax. 

 

Our use pattern is mostly short UK domestic trips, but about 4 or 5 times a year a very long round trip to our place in France where again it's mostly short domestic trips. With the current Octavia we used to do it in one haul of about 1200 km, getting about 900 km (600 mi) on one tankful of diesel, averaging about 60mph and 43 mpg, nearly all on the autoroutes or motorways.

 

So we were doing about 15000 miles a year, but half of that was on only perhaps 10 days a year.  We now make an overnight stop each way. 

 

Looking at getting a very low mileage iV, and have found one which is from immediately prior to the recent facelift and has a good spec for us. We can charge on a domestic point overnight at home (don't have a dedicated charger at present). However there is no possibility of charging at our French property as parking is in a village car park not at the house. 

 

Does anyone have experience of making long trips across France in a PHEV, with limited facilities at the far end, who could give us advice on charging and refuelling strategies if we go that route?  We don't want to extend the actual travel times by too much to accomodate slow electric charging and don't know what the compatibility of French public chargers is.

Thanks in advance 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 July, 20241 yr by slast
typo

I’d just hire a car whenever you need it. Don’t believe PHEV, especially with its tiny battery much help.

Edited 23 July, 20241 yr by RaysWheels

You’d have to do the sums i guess, but my advice would be probably just don’t bother charging it in France at all for the time you’re there. 
 

You can run around on petrol only when you’re there. you should see between 45 and 50 mpg like that, or a bit less if they’re really short journeys.

 

 If you get a dedicated charger at home, then you’ll also be able to get a very cheap overnight tariff. It could mean the cheap costs for the majority of your use at home subsidises the French usage. Of course you’d have to lump the costs of installing a charger and the likely increased costs of a hybrid over equivalent diesel.  
 

i think some energy providers give low night time tariffs without a car charger though too. 
 

personally i prefer the way the hybrid drives over the string of diesels have had previously, but then mine is a company car so I’m also influenced by bik tax and cost per mile. 
 

you’re kind of the case point for a plug in hybrid. Mostly short local journeys done on electric but without the range anxiety for infrequent long journeys. Like having two slightly compromised cars in one. 
 

overall it may be comparable to just running the diesel all the time, but then these decisions aren’t always just about the cost per mile, its okay to want a new car! 

On my trip to France earlier this month I was surprised how many charging points there were, and most with available bays. No idea of the cost per kWh though as mine is the 1.5 tsi estate.

 

I calculated that an iV wasn’t worth it from a cost point of view. More expensive initial cost, very short battery range, and mediocre mpg on petrol. The majority of my mileage is long journeys on which I’m getting 55 - 60 mpg (Plymouth to Winchester (coastal route not the dreaded A303) the other day was 60.8). A run to the supermarket of three or four miles will be about 40 - 45 mpg unless there is horrendous traffic (which I usually avoid).
 

Your usage pattern may be sufficiently different to alter the equation but don’t rule out the 1.5tsi just yet. My aforementioned trip to France (Provence), 12 days and ~1850 miles, worked out at over 55 mpg with the cruise control at 130kph wherever legal (four adults, the boot rammed, and aircon at full tilt as it was well over 30C most days).

I have a PHEV which I run on electric locally.  I get around 33 miles per charge.  If I go a longer distance it switches to petrol automatically.

 

For France I would use petrol to get to your house.  It will probably be easiest to use petrol for local French runs as you cannot charge at the house and you may not want to wait at a charging station.  I understand that the charging plugs are standard (except Tesla) so you should have no problem plugging in in France.

I do a combination of long and short journeys (although not taken it to France yet)

I regularly see a combined of 75-85mpg in a run to Leeds from London using all the hybrid mode, but then the battery it flat.

you can save the battery by choosing to, so you could save the battery whilst you are driving in France and just use it once you are doing local trips

or maybe a local petrol station has a charger that you can get to (many have in the last 12/24 months)

 

I got my iv in December, and as a pre reg it was the same price as a 1.5 petrol which was what attached me to it 

 

good luck with your decision 

Thanks for the comments everyone

Bit more advice please! The car I'm looking at comes with a "16amp AC charge cable for wallbox/chargepoints (Mode 3)", a  "10amp mains UK 3-pin charge cable (Mode 2)" and the battery is 13kwh, which I gather is the Octavia standard.  

 

Looking around the area I'm going to on an app called "electromap", there are quite a few public chargers at supermarkets and car parks. One car park is shown as having "22kw type 2" and "3.3kw Shuko" connections.

 

If the car has zero miles left on the battery and is plugged into the 22kw socket, how long will it take to charge fully?  Is the limitation the cable (16kw) so 13/16 hour  = 49 mins? 

 

The pricing is apparently €3.0 hour for the charger use, plus €3.0 for parkin + 0.45€/kWh.    So that would be   €2.5 each for the charger use and parking, plus €5.85 for the electricity, for a total of €10.85 - call it €11.00.      

 

And if I were to use a domestic plug converter on the supplied UK plug and put it into 3.3kw "shuko" socket it will take 13/3.3 = 4 hours, and cost €12 + €12 + €5. 85 = €29.85 - call it €30.00.  So I definitely don't want to do that!  

 

At the Intermarche supermarket a little further away,  it's €1.38 for a charge plus €0.41 per kW/H, so €1.38 + €5.33 = €6.71

At the next supermarket (LIDL) it's a flat €0.33 per kWh, so only €4.29. 

 

So a huge range of prices depending on where you "fill up".   

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

 

   

 

 

Simplify.  Think of 10 kWh of a charge.  Not empty to full.    So 31 pence a kWh £3.10.  62 pence £6.20. Etc.    You are only getting max 3.6 kW charging speed regardless of a 7,11 or 22 AC charger.   There are even 43kW AC tethered cables, you still just get what your onboard charger can get so that 10 KWh charge in just under 3 hours.    If empty and going to 100 % with a 13 kWh battery it might be 14 kWh you are paying for with losses while charging.    UK standard tariff of 23 pence x 13 = £2.99

I do not know proportion of time in UK vs proportion in France, but you are looking at it slightly wrong way.

 

If apart from the few long journeys (which will mainly be petrol), yours are nearly all local journeys then provided you plug it in (and slow charging overnight is ok) then will do the local journeys on electric.  If plugging it in is going to be difficult in France then you basically have a petrol car with lot of deadweight.

 

If you are only in France for few weeks per year then fine, but if there for months at a time with no home charger then quite honestly why buy the more expensive PHEV when you can just buy the tsi petrol.  All the long journeys are going to be mainly petrol.  You are only really only going to be in full electric mode for about 4000 miles local in UK and possibly some miles in France.  
 

So saving about 10 tankfuls of petrol per year, having PHEV instead of petrol, say 10 x £80 = £800.  But got to pay for electricity so let's say overall save £400 per year.   As the PHEV needs full service every year as some parts get intermittent use, if PHEV cost extra £3k might take 7 years of fuel saving to justify offset extra cost.

 

Edited 26 July, 20241 yr by SurreyJohn

PHEV needs fixed oil and filter servicing regime.    9,400 miles / 12 months.   Like an interim or minor or actually an oil service just.  Do not get conned into any FULL Service nonsense.     It is a LOOK see inspection. Check the OBD etc.  Pollen filter is still every 2 years.  Brake fluid can be, spark plugs will still be at 40,000 miles and air filter at 6 years.  Cam belt the same as a 1.4 TSI and non ACT.  So years away.    I would be checking the air filter annually, and pollen filter per use.     PHEV,s are not a Cash Cow or Golden Goose for main dealers even if they try to make them. 

Edited 26 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

 You are only getting max 3.6 kW charging speed regardless of a 7,11 or 22 AC charger.   There are even 43kW AC tethered cables, you still just get what your onboard charger can get so that 10 KWh charge in just under 3 hours.    If empty and going to 100 % with a 13 kWh battery it might be 14 kWh you are paying for with losses while charging.    UK standard tariff of 23 pence x 13 = £2.99

Thank you again. Octo, trying to get my head around the charging rates.  Are you saying that regardless of what type of charger I'm plugged into, it will always take at least 3 hours to get 10kWh into the battery because that's all the car can accept? What's the significance of having a "16 amp cable" supplied?    Also for the maintenance tips which just poped in! 

 

Surreyjohn, again thanks.  The balance is going to shift a bit in future, and likely to be about 16 days a year when we are doing  a 350 mile run on motorways, about 8 months a year UK local and 4 French local.  Although the cost aspect is significant it's not the only factor I'm weighing up - it's likely to be the last car we buy and there are a couple of other aspects such as the likelihood of increased pressure against ICE vehicles over the next few years.  

 

Also the one I'm looking at has heated seats/windscreen/steering wheel, and the the idea of being able to warm it up while plugged in at home prior to getting in is appealing, but I don't know if that's possible with a non-electric car? 

 

Steve   

 

 

    

Edited 26 July, 20241 yr by slast
typo

What there is now is what there is, if it is 3.3 kW max charging that is that.

(I charge my MINI Electric on a 3 pin plug and type 2 32 amp cable but at a max 10 amps.  I get 2.3 kW max speed.)

32.6 kWh battery to get from about 5%-100% is 15 hours or so on the 3 pin cable,  that will take over 30 kWh but the battery is only 28.9 kWh usable.

I can charge at 11 kW AC on an 11 kW or 22 kW charger post, or on a 43 kW AC Tethered still max of 11 kW.  which i am doing right now,. 2 hours to get 20 kWh of a charge.

Charging limit for me now on the 22 kW AC and getting 11 kW is set at 16 amp. 

 

 

New PHEV,s coming with faster Max Charging Rates,

There are others from the likes or Land Rover / Range rover that are 11 kW or 22 kW AC charging.

Edited 26 July, 20241 yr by Ootohere

Something else to think about too. The iV requires an oil change every 10k miles. 

 

It's another added running cost you will have to do. Plus the tyres don't last well either

… and the boot is smaller.

i have the 1.4 IV and at home it charges from the plug socket at a rate of 2.4kwh so empty to full is about 11.6kw which costs £2.43. On the pod point at Tesco or others it will only take a max of 3.6kwh so around 3 hrs from empty. I do this a fair bit and also at home. Average UK price for kwh ex motorway services is around £0.48ppkwh.

With charging and a full tank of juice I'm getting around 650 mile range which isn't to bad. Again mine is a company car and only took this model to save me in BIK tax which on the Volvo XC i had until march was extortionate BIK...

23 minutes ago, Dazzy49 said:

i have the 1.4 IV and at home it charges from the plug socket at a rate of 2.4kwh so empty to full is about 11.6kw which costs £2.43. On the pod point at Tesco or others it will only take a max of 3.6kwh so around 3 hrs from empty. I do this a fair bit and also at home. Average UK price for kwh ex motorway services is around £0.48ppkwh.

With charging and a full tank of juice I'm getting around 650 mile range which isn't to bad. Again mine is a company car and only took this model to save me in BIK tax which on the Volvo XC i had until march was extortionate BIK...

That’s useful information, thank you. Confirms my calculations that for me a 1.4 IV isn’t financially viable (I’m not in the privileged position of company car and BIK).

I’m getting about 590 miles from a tankful in my 1.5tsi estate. To reach 640 I’d need less than an additional gallon, so let’s say £6 worth at current pricing, less about £3 to charge the battery in an IV, meaning each 640 mile stint costs me £3 more. Given the initial purchase price difference the maths don’t stack up - and that’s without the costs of increased frequency of oil changes.

When it comes to the environmental considerations I can’t see how, for me and those with similar journey patterns, an IV is any less bad.

I get nowhere near the above in mine 😂 the iV is pretty rapid and I end up having a heavier foot most drives where I switch to hybrid. Lucky if I get 400miles to a tank.

 

But do a lot of local journeys on battery alone. But that does not last well as in hilly area

Discussed potential purchase at dealership yesterday, and was a bit shocked to be told that workshop cost for iV are higher than others - I think he said £230/hr vs £130, as well as being needed more frequently. Did I mis-hear? 

I wouldn't say that it's a privileged position lol. The volvo I had until March was costing me an extra 430 a month in tax.. It's not like it was in the 90s lol... The government hammer you just because you get a car purely for business needs... Now it's less than 90 a month as its a hybrid... 

Fair point.

I was comparing the BIK on 1.5tsi vs 1.4IV at 28% vs 6% (old brochure from when I bought mine).

How that compares to loss of interest on £x,000 or interest on a loan/PCP is an ever changing equation…

On 26/07/2024 at 09:39, slast said:

Are you saying that regardless of what type of charger I'm plugged into, it will always take at least 3 hours to get 10kWh into the battery because that's all the car can accept?

Correct and annoying when friends have phev’s that can take 22kW. Whenever you are it’s a slow charge. Basically it’s a plug in at home, hotel or during a long walk from a nice Nat Trust car park. At home I charge v cheaply with a flexible tariff but rarely bother when away camping, in Spain or France. Trying to get foreign chargers to work isn’t relaxing trying to download new apps, make them work or even finding their chargers. Even Octopus’ electroverse app (great in UK) piggybacks onto rubbish Spanish apps and their inaccurate maps, in my experience

 

But for your short uk trips it’s great…

I generally don't bother charging the PHEV outside of the home. Usually too expensive for the range. On longer trips to the Highlands or England I get around 40-45mpg on petrol. 

 

My regular work commute is well within battery range - so I usually get there and back comfortably on the battery- thus I haven't filled up for ages (car was saying 1600miles ago). This makes the iV much more economic sense for me. 

Thanks to everyone for the useful information.   I've decided not to go for the PHEV in the end but have tried a late 23 demonstrator (<1000 miles) 1.5 e-TEC SE L. This has the optons I wanted on it and the dealer will take my current car (which has a lot of cosmetic damage and is coming up for maintenance and MoT shortly) at a "tolerable" price for a no hassle changeover, so that's what I'm going for.  

6 hours ago, slast said:

Thanks to everyone for the useful information.   I've decided not to go for the PHEV in the end but have tried a late 23 demonstrator (<1000 miles) 1.5 e-TEC SE L. This has the optons I wanted on it and the dealer will take my current car (which has a lot of cosmetic damage and is coming up for maintenance and MoT shortly) at a "tolerable" price for a no hassle changeover, so that's what I'm going for.  

 

Sounds like a good choice to me. Enjoy...